Under CEC, do you need reference letter for past jobs ?

[salkhan]

*Sorry above post was mentioned to jes_on instead of jon_on. Apologies.

 

[istari]

Thank you for your responses jon_on and istari,

I am going to submit my express entry profile (Pre ITA phase) with only the Canadian work experience now and will mention all my work experience from back home if invited to apply for APR?

However, I was just getting cold feet with reading the part under the first heading at CIC's official website (cic.gc.ca/english/immigrate/skilled/invitations)

I hope providing lesser information now (in Pre ITA phase) and providing complete information in the APR will not be seen as misrepresentation of myself.

Thanks.

This is totally fine, don't worry about it.

 

[neorol]

Thank you for your responses jon_on and istari,

I am going to submit my express entry profile (Pre ITA phase) with only the Canadian work experience now and will mention all my work experience from back home if invited to apply for APR?

However, I was just getting cold feet with reading the part under the first heading at CIC's official website (cic.gc.ca/english/immigrate/skilled/invitations)

I hope providing lesser information now (in Pre ITA phase) and providing complete information in the APR will not be seen as misrepresentation of myself.

Thanks.

As long as you will put them into your personal history there shouldn't be any problem. However, foreign work experience could give you a lot of CRS points. You should try everything to get evidence and claim points for them.

 

[salkhan]

As long as you will put them into your personal history there shouldn't be any problem. However, foreign work experience could give you a lot of CRS points. You should try everything to get evidence and claim points for them.

I have tried everything in my power and means from here in Canada to get those evidences.

one employer got bought by a different company and all their staff has changed and they have stopped answering to my email since June
With the other employer, the circumstances which led to my resignation left bad air between us and they are not willing to help me out.

I discussed this situation with two immigration lawyers and they told me that I have to mention this employment information on my EE profile even if I can't prove it...

they said, the case would go to CIC and they will decide if and which program you qualify for and then you provide them.

So I am in a really confused state of mind

 

[istari]

I have tried everything in my power and means from here in Canada to get those evidences.

one employer got bought by a different company and all their staff has changed and they have stopped answering to my email since June
With the other employer, the circumstances which led to my resignation left bad air between us and they are not willing to help me out.

I discussed this situation with two immigration lawyers and they told me that I have to mention this employment information on my EE profile even if I can't prove it...

they said, the case would go to CIC and they will decide if and which program you qualify for and then you provide them.

So I am in a really confused state of mind

The consensus on this forum is that you should only put work experience you're claiming points for (that you can prove) in the work experience section, and all other work experience should go in personal history.
This is the advice that every senior on the forum gives to every newcomer. You will not find different advice on this forum.

So you need to choose whether you will take the advice of the people on this forum (many of whom have received PR using this advice), or that of the lawyers.
It's really up to you. But if you're looking for different advice, you won't find it here, because method that we've suggested to you here has been used successfully time and time again.

 

[salkhan]

The consensus on this forum is that you should only put work experience you're claiming points for (that you can prove) in the work experience section, and all other work experience should go in personal history.
This is the advice that every senior on the forum gives to every newcomer. You will not find different advice on this forum.

So you need to choose whether you will take the advice of the people on this forum (many of whom have received PR using this advice), or that of the lawyers.
It's really up to you. But if you're looking for different advice, you won't find it here, because method that we've suggested to you here has been used successfully time and time again.

I trust the information on this forum as I was successful with the information shared by seniors towards my study permit where the consultant's really confused me, the only reason I was even listening to the lawyers were because they were very renowned but If this method has been successful with seniors on this forum and no one on this forum has had any problems with the eventual PR application by only putting work experience they are claiming points for in the work experience section, then I am willing to go that route too.

 

[s23srinivas]

Hi Jes_ON,istari,
I received the ITA under CEC category with a CRS of 850 i.e. 77 for age, 133 for first language, 40 for Canadian Work exp and 600 for arranged employment.

Now as I am completing the online application in myCIC account, the document checklist indicates to provide Offer of Employment (required) ,Employment Records (required), Letter of Employment (required) along with other general documents.

My question is related to the Employment Records. The help section in the checklist states:

You must provide proof of work experience for your current job and each past position you listed. Proof must include a reference letter from your employer and pay stubs, if you have them. The refernece letter must

• be an official document on the company letterhead
• include name and company contact info, signature of your immediate
• show all positions held while employed at the company
• include details: job title, duties/responsibilities,status,dates worked for the company, no of hours per week and annual salary and benefits

Since I was bought here on a work permit with a positive LMIA and as a permanent employee as well as the company is providing a "new" offer letter (I am continuing with the same employer) and the fact that I have a Letter of employment that gives the details as indicated for the Employment Records, do I still need to give a separate "Employment Records" document with the same information as the "Letter of Employment" document? Or should i give all my previous employment details like offer letters, resignation letters and release letters from back home in the "Employment Records" document?

Since I did not score points for my past work experience from home and the work history section of the application only lists Canadian work experience I am a bit confused between the documents to be uploaded. Please guide what to upload under "Employment Records" and "Letter of Employment". Getting a reference letter from home will be a challenge as one company got acquired and other refused to provide any reference letter apart from the release letter that they provided at the time of leaving the job.

Regards,

 

[jes_ON]

1. So the electronic form/application I am completing online for the Express Entry is just the "Expression of interest for PR"?
Yes.

2. and I should ONLY provide Work experience and education that I want to claim points for in this electronic application?
Yes, for work experience. It is a little more complicated RE education.

2(i) this would mean that I should also not put in the education info for which I do not have the ECA for?

I would recommend including your education anyway. You will be asked for the education documents (copy of degree/diploma and/or transcripts), even though you will not get any points for it without the ITA. The reason is, sometimes if a VO has doubts about your skilled work experience, they will check your education. Even though your job does not have to be in the same field as your degree (e.g. you can still be a programmer or a cook if you studied history), but for some jobs it just will not make sense (e.g. you probably would not be geologist if you studied culinary arts). So "it depends" - you might be able to safely omit all the education, but if you think it strengthens the credibility of your application, I would include it anyway. Of course, you still say NO to the question, do you have an ECA?

Once I get the ITA on this EOI application for Express Entry, I will then have to worry about the actual PR application and my assessment would begin then on what I can prove and what I can't ?

Yes, and no. If you have a high score, you can start collecting the information and documents you need before you get the ITA. For example, police clearance certificates. You will get an individual check list, but you can see here for the general requirements -
http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/resources/tools/perm/express/intake-complete.asp

So at this point when I am filling our the Express Entry application (to receive an ITA), I can leave out the information that I am not claiming points for and this would not be seen as "omission" of information?

Correct, in regards to work experience. However, it would not do you any favors to (for example) omit facts like if you had a spouse and 10 kids : )

 

[jes_ON]

I received the ITA under CEC category with a CRS of 850 i.e. 77 for age, 133 for first language, 40 for Canadian Work exp and 600 for arranged employment.

Now as I am completing the online application in myCIC account, the document checklist indicates to provide Offer of Employment (required) ,Employment Records (required), Letter of Employment (required) along with other general documents.

My question is related to the Employment Records. The help section in the checklist states:

You must provide proof of work experience for your current job and each past position you listed. Proof must include a reference letter from your employer and pay stubs, if you have them. The refernece letter must

• be an official document on the company letterhead
• include name and company contact info, signature of your immediate
• show all positions held while employed at the company
• include details: job title, duties/responsibilities,status,dates worked for the company, no of hours per week and annual salary and benefits

Since I was bought here on a work permit with a positive LMIA and as a permanent employee as well as the company is providing a "new" offer letter (I am continuing with the same employer) and the fact that I have a Letter of employment that gives the details as indicated for the Employment Records, do I still need to give a separate "Employment Records" document with the same information as the "Letter of Employment" document? Or should i give all my previous employment details like offer letters, resignation letters and release letters from back home in the "Employment Records" document?

Since I did not score points for my past work experience from home and the work history section of the application only lists Canadian work experience I am a bit confused between the documents to be uploaded. Please guide what to upload under "Employment Records" and "Letter of Employment". Getting a reference letter from home will be a challenge as one company got acquired and other refused to provide any reference letter apart from the release letter that they provided at the time of leaving the job.

1. If you did not list a job in your profile, you do not need to provide any documents.

2. If you DID list it, you need to provide a recent Letter of Employment (=Letter of reference) and any supporting documents that you might have (e.g. paystubs; for employment in Canada, you need to provide your T4 and/or NOA. You do not need to provide paystubs if you have the T4.). Here the Letter of Reference testifies to your past work experience. It must be dated AFTER the completion date of the experience you claimed in your profile, because for current employment, the date at the top of the letter used as the "end date". Your original job offer letter does not prove that you actually did the work, and is not useful here.

3. Because you got the 600 point bonus for arranged employment, you need 2 things - the LMIA, and a new written job offer of FUTURE permanent, full-time, non-seasonal employment, contingent upon you obtaining permanent resident status. This means that if you get PR, your employer will hire you permanently. If you do not get this letter, you will lose the 600 bonus points, and you will no longer be eligible.

So in summary, you will need 2 different letters from your current employer (Letter of reference, Job offer letter), and "records" or documents like the T4, NOA, and/or paystubs...

 

[neorol]

I have tried everything in my power and means from here in Canada to get those evidences.

one employer got bought by a different company and all their staff has changed and they have stopped answering to my email since June
With the other employer, the circumstances which led to my resignation left bad air between us and they are not willing to help me out.

I discussed this situation with two immigration lawyers and they told me that I have to mention this employment information on my EE profile even if I can't prove it...

they said, the case would go to CIC and they will decide if and which program you qualify for and then you provide them.

So I am in a really confused state of mind

First of all, CIC gave the answer in a written form to someone that show the work you claim points for. In the eAPR application in personal work history there is an option to choose "employment" . It's exactly the thing you need. Only history, no CRS. You still can explain your situation in your letter of explanation if you wish.

Lawyers ask many times for extra unnecessary things just making the case super safe and bulletproof. I spent a lot of money for unnecessary documents because of this.

If you can't get the letters there are alternative ways to prove your work experience. Please look for them in the forum. It came up many times. I think dropping CRS points is a luxury, unless you have LMIA or PNP nomination

 

[salkhan]

First of all, CIC gave the answer in a written form to someone that show the work you claim points for. In the eAPR application in personal work history there is an option to choose "employment" . It's exactly the thing you need. Only history, no CRS. You still can explain your situation in your letter of explanation if you wish.

Lawyers ask many times for extra unnecessary things just making the case super safe and bulletproof. I spent a lot of money for unnecessary documents because of this.

If you can't get the letters there are alternative ways to prove your work experience. Please look for them in the forum. It came up many times. I think dropping CRS points is a luxury, unless you have LMIA or PNP nomination

I am eligible for BC PNP since I did my masters from a BC University, however for that I need to submit an Express Entry application first... EE is the only stumbling block in the process that I know of....
or if BC PNP closes tomorrow for some reason like it did suddenly last year

 

[neorol]

I am eligible for BC PNP since I did my masters from a BC University, however for that I need to submit an Express Entry application first... EE is the only stumbling block in the process that I know of....
or if BC PNP closes tomorrow for some reason like it did suddenly last year

If you are eligible for PNP, go for it. (I don't know anything about BC PNP). In that case, just display that foreign work experience in your personal history when you get an ITA. Till then just don't show it. (Unless PNP program needs it?) And don't forget EE profile is not an application. You can modify and delete it anytime. You have to prove its content on the date of the ITA and the submisson date of you e-APR. (Permanent Residency application)

Good luck!

 

[salkhan]

If you are eligible for PNP, go for it. (I don't know anything about BC PNP). In that case, just display that foreign work experience in your personal history when you get an ITA. Till then just don't show it. (Unless PNP program needs it?) And don't forget EE profile is not an application. You can modify and delete it anytime. You have to prove its content on the date of the ITA and the submisson date of you e-APR. (Permanent Residency application)

Good luck!

Thanks istari, jes_on and nerol,

This is exactly what I am going to go forward with (and thanks to you all) your help and guidance, I have submitted my EE profile (with Canadian work experience only) as suggested and will show all the work history from back home in APR's personal history section or in an explanation letter.... Will now apply for BC PNP International Post Graduate category.

Hope everything progresses okay... *Fingers Crossed*

 

[anujw]

1. If you did not list a job in your profile, you do not need to provide any documents.

2. If you DID list it, you need to provide a recent Letter of Employment (=Letter of reference) and any supporting documents that you might have (e.g. paystubs; for employment in Canada, you need to provide your T4 and/or NOA. You do not need to provide paystubs if you have the T4.). Here the Letter of Reference testifies to your past work experience. It must be dated AFTER the completion date of the experience you claimed in your profile, because for current employment, the date at the top of the letter used as the "end date". Your original job offer letter does not prove that you actually did the work, and is not useful here.

3. Because you got the 600 point bonus for arranged employment, you need 2 things - the LMIA, and a new written job offer of FUTURE permanent, full-time, non-seasonal employment, contingent upon you obtaining permanent resident status. This means that if you get PR, your employer will hire you permanently. If you do not get this letter, you will lose the 600 bonus points, and you will no longer be eligible.

So in summary, you will need 2 different letters from your current employer (Letter of reference, Job offer letter), and "records" or documents like the T4, NOA, and/or paystubs...

Need assistance to clarify something relayed to employment history
While filling the profile I listed all my previous job experience ever since I graduated as I was under the impression that I'd be misrepresenting if I dont list. Now that I understand its only the 'relevant' experience, can I remove an old employment experience from job history section while submitting the final application and ofcource include them in the personal history section ( I received ITA and working on collecting documents). Again, the experience which I had 6 years before is not really giving any points to me not is relevant ( I'm submitting under CEC and collecting proof for 2 years Canadian experience and 4 years of foreign experience )

 

[jes_ON]

Need assistance to clarify something relayed to employment history
While filling the profile I listed all my previous job experience ever since I graduated as I was under the impression that I'd be misrepresenting if I dont list. Now that I understand its only the 'relevant' experience, can I remove an old employment experience from job history section while submitting the final application and ofcource include them in the personal history section ( I received ITA and working on collecting documents). Again, the experience which I had 6 years before is not really giving any points to me not is relevant ( I'm submitting under CEC and collecting proof for 2 years Canadian experience and 4 years of foreign experience )

Yes, if it does not affect your points, you can do that.