Helping citizen move before PR approval

[tcdc]

Hi,
I am the spouse of a Canadian citizen who will be sponsoring me for permanent residence.

We'd like to move some items out of our home in the States to ease the home sale process. Instead of moving it into storage here and then having to move it again later, I'm thinking it makes sense to move it into storage in Canada because our relocation plan will have us storing stuff there anyway, even after we move.

If I show up at the border with a Uhaul full of stuff asking for a visitor visa...I know how that would look.

But my wife and I fully intend to leave, and she being a citizen wouldn't need any type of visa.

Would showing return plane tickets help our case at the border, to establish that we will be flying back to an airport within 50 miles of the address on my driver's license? Or is this a case where I should fly in on my own, go through customs at an airport, and then meet up with her? Less desirable/more expensive option I'd like to avoid, but an option nonetheless.

 

[scylla]

Hi,
I am the spouse of a Canadian citizen who will be sponsoring me for permanent residence.

We'd like to move some items out of our home in the States to ease the home sale process. Instead of moving it into storage here and then having to move it again later, I'm thinking it makes sense to move it into storage in Canada because our relocation plan will have us storing stuff there anyway, even after we move.

If I show up at the border with a Uhaul full of stuff asking for a visitor visa...I know how that would look.

But my wife and I fully intend to leave, and she being a citizen wouldn't need any type of visa.

Would showing return plane tickets help our case at the border, to establish that we will be flying back to an airport within 50 miles of the address on my driver's license? Or is this a case where I should fly in on my own, go through customs at an airport, and then meet up with her? Less desirable/more expensive option I'd like to avoid, but an option nonetheless.

Travel separately. Don't go with your spouse in the Uhaul.

The chances of there being issues are on the lower end. But there is a chance you may have problems and IMO the consequences of those problems are far too great to risk it.

 

[armoured]

Hi,
I am the spouse of a Canadian citizen who will be sponsoring me for permanent residence.

We'd like to move some items out of our home in the States to ease the home sale process. Instead of moving it into storage here and then having to move it again later, I'm thinking it makes sense to move it into storage in Canada because our relocation plan will have us storing stuff there anyway, even after we move.

If I show up at the border with a Uhaul full of stuff asking for a visitor visa...I know how that would look.

But my wife and I fully intend to leave, and she being a citizen wouldn't need any type of visa.

Would showing return plane tickets help our case at the border, to establish that we will be flying back to an airport within 50 miles of the address on my driver's license? Or is this a case where I should fly in on my own, go through customs at an airport, and then meet up with her? Less desirable/more expensive option I'd like to avoid, but an option nonetheless.

I'm going to sort-of agree with @scylla but something that needs to be clarified: your spouse is not moving yet? I would say it's not clear that your spouse has the right to just 'bring stuff' to Canada on a visit - particularly the amount of stuff that's in a uhaul.

If that's the plan, it's a bad plan. Stick it in storage for the time being on the US side of the border. Move it up to Canada when at least one of you is moving.

(I'm perhaps a little more relaxed than @scylla in that I'd say if she can say that the belongings are hers, and you have a ticket back, you'd probably be okay going with her. Probably. And while I doubt they check the underwear drawer, any large obvious things - I don't know, your professional mechanical bull and you're the rodeo person - but I don't think that's the real issue right now.)

 

[scylla]

I'm going to sort-of agree with @scylla but something that needs to be clarified: your spouse is not moving yet? I would say it's not clear that your spouse has the right to just 'bring stuff' to Canada on a visit - particularly the amount of stuff that's in a uhaul.

If that's the plan, it's a bad plan. Stick it in storage for the time being on the US side of the border. Move it up to Canada when at least one of you is moving.

(I'm perhaps a little more relaxed than @scylla in that I'd say if she can say that the belongings are hers, and you have a ticket back, you'd probably be okay going with her. Probably. And while I doubt they check the underwear drawer, any large obvious things - I don't know, your professional mechanical bull and you're the rodeo person - but I don't think that's the real issue right now.)

The "probably OK" is what makes me say don't do it.

Good chance there will be no issue.

However there have been a few Americans on this forum over the years who have gotten a 1 year exclusion order for doing exactly this. For me the risk of this is simply not worth it. But ultimately a personal decision and up to someone's risk tolerance.

 

[steaky]

Then how about get a storage close to the Canadian border?

 

[armoured]

The "probably OK" is what makes me say don't do it.

Good chance there will be no issue.

However there have been a few Americans on this forum over the years who have gotten a 1 year exclusion order for doing exactly this. For me the risk of this is simply not worth it. But ultimately a personal decision and up to someone's risk tolerance.

As I said, I think the first thing to clarify is if one of them is moving at this point or not. If not - keep the stuff in USA until one of them is moving.

I can't attest to specifics of cases; the ones I recall where people had problems had - to the extent my memory serves - other defects of preparation, shall we say. Things like not being aware they had to apply for a PR visa at all, or could just stay, and work, or clearly carrying belongings of the non-citizen, not-yet PR (as all or main part of belongings). Basically obviously moving the non-citizen without any docs to that effect. I don't recall any where the person - as above - had been prepared and looked into it before (to take basic precautions).

But caution is warranted. I'd risk it personally, if I knew that the citizen moving in advance was taking only joint belongings (although if some incidentals in there, probably not critical). At least in amounts that would be moved by uhaul.

Doesn't mean everyone should risk it or will feel comfortable with it. And I could be wrong.

 

[tcdc]

Neither of us are moving immediately and will not be moving via this trip. Stateside storage is an option but that introduces the issue of dealing with customs every time we go to get something of ours, instead of getting across one time with the stuff.

We can certainly travel separately. No issue there. But now I'm more concerned with @armoured's comment that she can't just "bring stuff" across the border with no intent to move - although, she could say she's moving ("settling"?)...I can't see any potential issues there mostly because of hubris and a lack of experience, but also because it's basically true - that's why we're doing this, it's just that we're not going to stay immediately after we drop...kind of a soft landing for her, so to speak...I guess popping up at the border 6 months later with me to settle "again" might be curious for them.

This whole exercise is in establishing the viability of a "Plan B" that we don't necessarily HAVE to do, I just like to know my options. If this ain't one, c'est la vie.

 

[MJSPARV]

I’m NOT giving advice on what you should do but I’ll share my experience with doing something similar. I had a positive experience but there are also people with negative experiences. I suspect mine was positive because I was up front about planning to leave in less than 6 months.

In 2021, my husband (Canadian citizen, had been living in US 7 years), and I and our 1 year old crossed by land into Canada for him to resettle in Canada. We had applied for my Outland spousal sponsorship and I’d received AOR. Household goods were to follow and he declared them at the border as well as imported the car (title of the car was in his name only.) HE was resettling in Canada - there was a lease, he had a job, etc, and he had the whole resettling (returning? Don’t recall the exact term) Canadian exemption for bringing in a ton of household goods. (Because yes you need to look into that issue separately.) At the border I told them that I was coming to help him settle in and then visit, and that my PR application was at the AOR stage, and that I understood that I was entering as visitor, which was why our daughter and I had tickets to leave in 5 months. The officer asked “Do you have to be in the US then or are you just leaving then because you know you can’t stay more than six months?” Obviously I was sure this was a trick question lol. I told him the truth that I was respecting the usual six month entry for Americans. He then asked if I would accept a year long visitor record if he gave it to me and I said I would. I wrote in a bit more detail about this on the forum back when it was fresh, if you search my user name and “dual intent” I think it’ll come up. IIRC there’s some discussion there too of entering as a visitor and while a PR application is in progress vs doing it after entering Canada and that’s a factor at the border.

fwiw I have also entered Canada while married to a Canadian shortly after our wedding and also had zero issues then too, but that time we were literally going for three days to see friends and CBSA was mostly surprised that we WANTED to pay duty on the alcohol we were bringing in. (It was a camping party with friends who hadn’t been able to make it to the wedding and we had a bunch of leftover alcohol and it was cheaper to pay the duty than to buy in Canada. The officers at the border seemed confused by us declaring it. As in “you know if you declare it you have to pay duty? You’re sure?” )

 

[armoured]

But now I'm more concerned with @armoured's comment that she can't just "bring stuff" across the border with no intent to move - although, she could say she's moving ("settling"?)...I can't see any potential issues there mostly because of hubris and a lack of experience, but also because it's basically true

She could actually call CBSA and ask. My thought about this is simple: to bring a bunch of stuff on the 'Canadian moving back' exemption (or effectively anyone with a right to 'settle' in Canada, will apply to you when you do, too) - the idea is the person is ... returning to settle. Not just drop stuff off.

Now that doesn't tell us how strict they are, or whether your specific plans can possibly be shoe-horned in. If you (she) were, say, taking stuff up to drop it off and going back to return a month later - probably would just be seen as normal shuffling / last minute stuff. I don't know whether your plans come across as within what they see as under that exemption.

(Now in normal times, there's hardly any tariffs, etc. But you know about that. )

So she could call and ask.

[I dont fully understand why this is easier than just putting it in storage near you and bringing it later, or near the border and picking up in future, etc. But that's your business.]

 

[MJSPARV]

We can certainly travel separately. No issue there. But now I'm more concerned with @armoured's comment that she can't just "bring stuff" across the border with no intent to move - although, she could say she's moving ("settling"?)

you may find this useful

https://publications.gc.ca/collections/collection_2009/asfc-cbsa/PS38-39-2009E.pdf

 

[MJSPARV]

She could actually call CBSA and ask. My thought about this is simple: to bring a bunch of stuff on the 'Canadian moving back' exemption (or effectively anyone with a right to 'settle' in Canada, will apply to you when you do, too) - the idea is the person is ... returning to settle. Not just drop stuff off.

Now that doesn't tell us how strict they are, or whether your specific plans can possibly be shoe-horned in. If you (she) were, say, taking stuff up to drop it off and going back to return a month later - probably would just be seen as normal shuffling / last minute stuff. I don't know whether your plans come across as within what they see as under that exemption.

(Now in normal times, there's hardly any tariffs, etc. But you know about that. )

So she could call and ask.

[I dont fully understand why this is easier than just putting it in storage near you and bringing it later, or near the border and picking up in future, etc. But that's your business.]

My memory is that they did ask if my husband was actually settling in Canada and we did go prepared with the lease. Bit that may also have had to do with Covid stuff as it was early 2021.

 

[armoured]

My memory is that they did ask if my husband was actually settling in Canada and we did go prepared with the lease. Bit that may also have had to do with Covid stuff as it was early 2021.

Might've been. I honestly don't know. Just raising the point that showing up at the border border and saying "I'm just dropping off a uhaul of my stuff and then going back" ... that's kind of not in the normal set of things they have rules for.

 

[MJSPARV]

Might've been. I honestly don't know. Just raising the point that showing up at the border border and saying "I'm just dropping off a uhaul of my stuff and then going back" ... that's kind of not in the normal set of things they have rules for.

It is definitely not a usual situation and I don’t think it is a good plan at all to move all your stuff until the citizen is actually moving. My recollection is that you get one shot and one shot only at resettling and if it’s not either with you when you cross or on the goods to follow list it’s excluded from the exemptions. I think this is actually separate from the issue of the spouse accompanying to help move. That’s probably not an issue if you have proof of plans to return and don’t say dumb stuff at the border, whereas trying to move all your things before the citizen is actually moving is not going to work.

 

[armoured]

It is definitely not a usual situation and I don’t think it is a good plan at all to move all your stuff until the citizen is actually moving. My recollection is that you get one shot and one shot only at resettling and if it’s not either with you when you cross or on the goods to follow list it’s excluded from the exemptions. I think this is actually separate from the issue of the spouse accompanying to help move. That’s probably not an issue if you have proof of plans to return and don’t say dumb stuff at the border, whereas trying to move all your things before the citizen is actually moving is not going to work.

Agree entirely, but would add here that they'd likely have two shots if needed (if citizen returns first and PR comes to settle later).