Expired PR card crossing borders and CBSA asked to contact IRCC

[hangshus]

Hello guys,

Here is my story, and I need some opinions.

My PR card expired two and a half years ago and over the last 5 years, I only lived in Canada for 9 months. When I crossed the border recently with my expired PR card by land from US, I was asked to talk to one of the officers in the building. The officer didn't issue me A44 reports nor ask me to sign any document to waive my permanent resident status. Instead, regular questions regarding if I meet the residence obligation, i.e. have you accompanied a spouse who is a Canadian citizen overseas, have you been employees by a Canadian firm overseas, etc.

After getting negative answers for all those questions, the officer asked my future plan and I said I would live here permanently. Then the officer asked for my phone number and address. Last the officer asked me to book an appointment with my local IRCC office and let them decide if my permanent residence status is still valid.

Here is my question? Have CBSA informed the IRCC yet? I know the formal approach to inform IRCC is to issue A44 reports. Should I contact IRCC at all or should I wait to see if I receive any phone calls or mails from IRCC for an in-person interview? My original plan was to stay in the country until I meet the residence obligation and then renew the PR card. If I contact IRCC now, they would know I didn't meet the residence obligation. What should I do guys?

 

[scylla]

Hello guys,

Here is my story, and I need some opinions.

My PR card expired two and a half years ago and over the last 5 years, I only lived in Canada for 9 months. When I crossed the border recently with my expired PR card by land from US, I was asked to talk to one of the officers in the building. The officer didn't issue me A44 reports nor ask me to sign any document to waive my permanent resident status. Instead, regular questions regarding if I meet the residence obligation, i.e. have you accompanied a spouse who is a Canadian citizen overseas, have you been employees by a Canadian firm overseas, etc.

After getting negative answers for all those questions, the officer asked my future plan and I said I would live here permanently. Then the officer asked for my phone number and address. Last the officer asked me to book an appointment with my local IRCC office and let them decide if my permanent residence status is still valid.

Here is my question? Have CBSA informed the IRCC yet? I know the formal approach to inform IRCC is to issue A44 reports. Should I contact IRCC at all or should I wait to see if I receive any phone calls or mails from IRCC for an in-person interview? My original plan was to stay in the country until I meet the residence obligation and then renew the PR card. If I contact IRCC now, they would know I didn't meet the residence obligation. What should I do guys?

I would remain in Canada without leaving for 2 straight years to meet the residency obligation and only then apply to renew your PR card. I would not contact IRCC now.

It's possible CBSA has informed IRCC of something but I would still do as the above.

 

[Ponga]

Hello guys,

Here is my story, and I need some opinions.

My PR card expired two and a half years ago and over the last 5 years, I only lived in Canada for 9 months. When I crossed the border recently with my expired PR card by land from US, I was asked to talk to one of the officers in the building. The officer didn't issue me A44 reports nor ask me to sign any document to waive my permanent resident status. Instead, regular questions regarding if I meet the residence obligation, i.e. have you accompanied a spouse who is a Canadian citizen overseas, have you been employees by a Canadian firm overseas, etc.

After getting negative answers for all those questions, the officer asked my future plan and I said I would live here permanently. Then the officer asked for my phone number and address. Last the officer asked me to book an appointment with my local IRCC office and let them decide if my permanent residence status is still valid.

Here is my question? Have CBSA informed the IRCC yet? I know the formal approach to inform IRCC is to issue A44 reports. Should I contact IRCC at all or should I wait to see if I receive any phone calls or mails from IRCC for an in-person interview? My original plan was to stay in the country until I meet the residence obligation and then renew the PR card. If I contact IRCC now, they would know I didn't meet the residence obligation. What should I do guys?

I concur with the suggestions from @scylla

At this point, you have no idea if CBSA has taken any action towards informing IRCC that you appear be out of compliance regarding the required residency obligation to maintain PR Status.

You should also start to create the narrative that you may need if IRCC contacts you regarding your status. Having not lived in Canada and alreday being out of compliance, you should determine what, if any, H&C grounds you may have to appease IRCC if they start the process to revoke your status.

 

[armoured]

It's possible CBSA has informed IRCC of something but I would still do as the above.

I fully agree with this. We are seeing here a few similar reports, and I think it's just CBSA being lazy and not wanting to do the A44 themselves - and a few cases (albeit infrequent) where the PR contacted IRCC or applied for PR card (basically upon advice of CBSA) then had problems. Up to and including A44 report.

CBSA does not have to have your best interests in mind. Even if it did, IRCC makes its own decisions.

Anyway, whatever anyone might think of CBSA's approach: I think it is only in your best interests to remain in Canada and delay any interaction with IRCC until you are in compliance with the RO - and if you can't wait for those full two years, as long as you can (the closer to in compliance with residence in Canada, the better).

 

[hangshus]

Hi guys,

A little update on my case.

I ordered the CBSA ATIP report recently. It does show my recent entry to Canada but on the report there is a column named "Immigration Referral" and the value for that column is Yes. I guess that would indicate at the time, CBSA did refer my case to IRCC. As of now, I haven't heard back from IRCC yet by mail or phone call.

My concern is that what if IRCC tried to contact me not using the address I provided to CBSA for whatever reason but sent out communications to my original PR application address. I would then miss out the IRCC's request for appointment or any other communications. If IRCC can't reach me for a long time, would they issue me A44 report?

I don't want to stay in Canada for 2 years and when I apply for PR card renewal, only then I realize IRCC issued me A44 report in the past. What should I do this case?

I don't know how much length IRCC would go in terms of this kind of referral given I don't have an active application with IRCC. I read online there are cases where people didn't meet RO but submitted for PR card renewal. IRCC waited for a long time to issue them a new PR card and no A44 was given. But federal court website also has cases where people were given A44 for not meeting RO when they submitted PR card renewal.

Thank you in advance for all your advice!

 

[scylla]

Hi guys,

A little update on my case.

I ordered the CBSA ATIP report recently. It does show my recent entry to Canada but on the report there is a column named "Immigration Referral" and the value for that column is Yes. I guess that would indicate at the time, CBSA did refer my case to IRCC. As of now, I haven't heard back from IRCC yet by mail or phone call.

My concern is that what if IRCC tried to contact me not using the address I provided to CBSA for whatever reason but sent out communications to my original PR application address. I would then miss out the IRCC's request for appointment or any other communications. If IRCC can't reach me for a long time, would they issue me A44 report?

I don't want to stay in Canada for 2 years and when I apply for PR card renewal, only then I realize IRCC issued me A44 report in the past. What should I do this case?

I don't know how much length IRCC would go in terms of this kind of referral given I don't have an active application with IRCC. I read online there are cases where people didn't meet RO but submitted for PR card renewal. IRCC waited for a long time to issue them a new PR card and no A44 was given. But federal court website also has cases where people were given A44 for not meeting RO when they submitted PR card renewal.

Thank you in advance for all your advice!

This isn't a straight forward situation and IMO you'd be best off getting a consult with a good Canadian immigration lawyer. This is well beyond my expertise to suggest and IMO you want qualified advice for this vs a bunch of random people giving you their best guess on a forum. Good luck and hope it works out. Let us know what happens.

 

[abff08f4813c]

Agree with the advice to consult with a lawyer.

The other bit I would add is that it might be helpful to do the ATIP request directly to IRCC if you haven't already ( https://atip-aiprp.apps.gc.ca/atip/welcome.do ) - presumably if you've already been issued an A44 or something similar then it'd be mentioned there. (But keep in mind that this takes a lot longer and it might not reveal anything - including not revealing the existence of an investigation - if IRCC hasn't made a decision yet but are still reviewing your files or still investigating.)

 

[hangshus]

Agree with the advice to consult with a lawyer.

The other bit I would add is that it might be helpful to do the ATIP request directly to IRCC if you haven't already ( https://atip-aiprp.apps.gc.ca/atip/welcome.do ) - presumably if you've already been issued an A44 or something similar then it'd be mentioned there. (But keep in mind that this takes a lot longer and it might not reveal anything - including not revealing the existence of an investigation - if IRCC hasn't made a decision yet but are still reviewing your files or still investigating.)

Thanks for the advice and help!

For ATIP request to IRCC, I don't currently have an active application with IRCC. Would that yield any result?

Also, for the selection page, there is a question asking "*Which specific information are you looking for?" Could you please advise which selection should I pick?

> Status Update of File including officer's Notes
> The application, supporting documents and correspondences sent to and/or from IRCC
> Reasons for Refusal including officer's Notes

Thanks

 

[hangshus]

This isn't a straight forward situation and IMO you'd be best off getting a consult with a good Canadian immigration lawyer. This is well beyond my expertise to suggest and IMO you want qualified advice for this vs a bunch of random people giving you their best guess on a forum. Good luck and hope it works out. Let us know what happens.

Thanks scylla!

 

[abff08f4813c]

Thanks for the advice and help!

For ATIP request to IRCC, I don't currently have an active application with IRCC. Would that yield any result?

Also, for the selection page, there is a question asking "*Which specific information are you looking for?" Could you please advise which selection should I pick?

> Status Update of File including officer's Notes
> The application, supporting documents and correspondences sent to and/or from IRCC
> Reasons for Refusal including officer's Notes

Thanks

As per https://www.canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/threads/all-about-gcms-how-to-order-read-general-questions-answered.482200/post-9297018 you don't need to have an active application to be able to request the GCMS notes. You can just specify a date or a year to get the relevant notes from that period. See also https://www.canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/threads/all-about-gcms-how-to-order-read-general-questions-answered.482200/post-9299748 on the same thread

As for which option to pick (if you can only pick one), it's the first one as per https://www.canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/threads/has-anyone-ordered-gcms-notes-recently.713391/post-9339917 - it looks like what's new is that that split apart "reasons for refusal" and "status update of file" but as you weren't refused, there's no "reasons for refusal" to query about I'd guess.

 

[Sricand]

Hello guys,

Here is my story, and I need some opinions.

My PR card expired two and a half years ago and over the last 5 years, I only lived in Canada for 9 months. When I crossed the border recently with my expired PR card by land from US, I was asked to talk to one of the officers in the building. The officer didn't issue me A44 reports nor ask me to sign any document to waive my permanent resident status. Instead, regular questions regarding if I meet the residence obligation, i.e. have you accompanied a spouse who is a Canadian citizen overseas, have you been employees by a Canadian firm overseas, etc.

After getting negative answers for all those questions, the officer asked my future plan and I said I would live here permanently. Then the officer asked for my phone number and address. Last the officer asked me to book an appointment with my local IRCC office and let them decide if my permanent residence status is still valid.

Here is my question? Have CBSA informed the IRCC yet? I know the formal approach to inform IRCC is to issue A44 reports. Should I contact IRCC at all or should I wait to see if I receive any phone calls or mails from IRCC for an in-person interview? My original plan was to stay in the country until I meet the residence obligation and then renew the PR card. If I contact IRCC now, they would know I didn't meet the residence obligation. What should I do guys?

Hi there.. Am in a similar situation and am intending to cross via the Ontario land border with an expired PR card. May I know which province you are currently in? Am wondering if you were able to apply for Drivers License, Health Card with an expired PR card in your province. Thanks.

 

[abff08f4813c]

Hi there.. Am in a similar situation and am intending to cross via the Ontario land border with an expired PR card. May I know which province you are currently in? Am wondering if you were able to apply for Drivers License, Health Card with an expired PR card in your province. Thanks.

How similar? Do you also fail on meeting the RO? Otherwise, if you do meet the RO, it might be better to attempt to renew the PR card first...

Anyways, it seems that for OHIP (Ontario specific) you are fine as long as the PR card has been expired for less than five years.

https://settlement.org/ontario/health/ohip-and-health-insurance/health-ohip-card/what-documents-do-i-need-to-apply-for-a-health-card-ohip/

Permanent Residents ("landed immigrants")
Valid Permanent Resident Card or a Permanent Resident Card that has been expired for less than 5 years

Less sure about using the expired PR card for an Ontario DL, but if you still have your copr then you should be able to get that too as per https://www.canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/threads/driving-license-in-ontario-with-expired-pr.772504/

If that somehow didn't work out, then I'd recommend just getting an Ontario Photo ID as per https://settlement.org/ontario/daily-life/transportation/driver-s-licence/what-kind-of-id-can-i-get-if-i-don-t-have-a-driver-s-licence/#:~:text=To Apply for a Photo,date of birth and signature. - if i'm understanding https://www.ontario.ca/page/acceptable-identity-documents correctly then for the photo id card you only need your passport. And once you have the photo ID then you can use that + passport to qualify for the driver's license, without pr card, as per https://settlement.org/ontario/daily-life/transportation/driver-s-licence/how-do-i-apply-for-a-driver-s-licence-what-documents-do-i-need/ & the permanent/temporary residents section in https://drivetest.ca/licences/acceptable-id-documents/

You'd have a lot more trouble if you were trying this in BC as per https://www.canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/threads/cant-renew-drivers-license-expired-because-pr-card-expired.802172/

 

[canuck78]

How similar? Do you also fail on meeting the RO? Otherwise, if you do meet the RO, it might be better to attempt to renew the PR card first...

Anyways, it seems that for OHIP (Ontario specific) you are fine as long as the PR card has been expired for less than five years.

https://settlement.org/ontario/health/ohip-and-health-insurance/health-ohip-card/what-documents-do-i-need-to-apply-for-a-health-card-ohip/



Less sure about using the expired PR card for an Ontario DL, but if you still have your copr then you should be able to get that too as per https://www.canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/threads/driving-license-in-ontario-with-expired-pr.772504/

If that somehow didn't work out, then I'd recommend just getting an Ontario Photo ID as per https://settlement.org/ontario/daily-life/transportation/driver-s-licence/what-kind-of-id-can-i-get-if-i-don-t-have-a-driver-s-licence/#:~:text=To Apply for a Photo,date of birth and signature. - if i'm understanding https://www.ontario.ca/page/acceptable-identity-documents correctly then for the photo id card you only need your passport. And once you have the photo ID then you can use that + passport to qualify for the driver's license, without pr card, as per https://settlement.org/ontario/daily-life/transportation/driver-s-licence/how-do-i-apply-for-a-driver-s-licence-what-documents-do-i-need/ & the permanent/temporary residents section in https://drivetest.ca/licences/acceptable-id-documents/

You'd have a lot more trouble if you were trying this in BC as per https://www.canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/threads/cant-renew-drivers-license-expired-because-pr-card-expired.802172/

OHIP may still be an issue. You essentially have to show you have been living in Ontario while having the expired PR card.

 

[hangshus]

Hi there.. Am in a similar situation and am intending to cross via the Ontario land border with an expired PR card. May I know which province you are currently in? Am wondering if you were able to apply for Drivers License, Health Card with an expired PR card in your province. Thanks.

Driver's license and health card is fine. Ontario health card checklist accepts PR card expired within the last 5 years. But I think you need to stay in Ontario for 153 days after applying for it.

 

[canuck78]

Driver's license and health card is fine. Ontario health card checklist accepts PR card expired within the last 5 years. But I think you need to stay in Ontario for 153 days after applying for it.

You need to prove residency even with the expired PR card for example your most recent Canadian tax return showing that you were working in Canada for example. You can have an expired PR card and haven’t renewed because you have no plans on leaving Canada. You would have proof that you have been residing in Canada.