Residency status validity for United Nations employees
- Thread starter rushbd
- Start date
Thank you I will check out the other immigration requirements for my spouse. For now I am unclear if working for the UN in Canada will make me eligible to apply for PR after I work for a number of years. Certain countries do not recognize UN staff work experience in that country towards applying for PR. Any information on this?
You need to post this question to the right section of the forum. This is wrong section of the forum to be posting this question since this section deals with family sponsorship (not ecnomic immigration).
Your work here in Canada will certainly be recognized as work experience - I think your specific question is whether it will be recognized as Canadian work experience or as foreign work experience. Again, you need to post this question to the appropriate section of the forum. Note that you do not need to have Canadian work experience to apply for PR. You can apply for PR with just foreign work experience. Similarly, having Canadian work experience does not guarantee PR. Hence why you need to dedicate time to researching Canada's immigration programs.
The discussion you've posted to is about working for the UN. However it is about maintaining PR status after getting permanent residency status by working outside of Canada for the UN. It is not about applying for PR through a UN job in Canada (which is your question). So you'll definitely want to move over to one of the economic immigration sections of this forum. You will also need to do some thorough reading and research on your own about immigration programs in Canada and how they work (or alternatively hire an immigration lawyer to help you if you don't have the time to do the research yourself). Good luck.
Will you be working on behalf of another country? Will you be working in Montreal or will your job require you to work abroad a large portion of the time which could impact your ability to meet your residency requirement, qualify for healthcare, etc. Given the job is in Quebec are you fluent in French?
Hello! thanks for the great and clear advice on this page. I had a follow up question: I'm a Canadian citizen, my spouse is not, we both currently work for the UN so move countries and are both currently living outside of Canada, and I'd like to apply for permanent residence then citizenship for him. I read on the help page that time outside Canada can count toward maintaining permanent residence status if my partner were to work for a Canadian business or government entity (he does not and I understand the UN would not count) but then it also says it WOULD count if you travel with a Canadian citizen. So my question is: As I'm a Canadian citizen, would him accompanying me on my next 2-year UN posting in Europe count toward his PR requirements?
This is the page https://www.ircc.canada.ca/english/helpcentre/answer.asp?qnum=1466&top=10
Many thanks!
This is the page https://www.ircc.canada.ca/english/helpcentre/answer.asp?qnum=1466&top=10
Many thanks!
You would need to prove that you will be returning to settle in Canada to apply for spousal sponsorship. One caveat may be if you were sent to work for the UN by the Canadian government typically as a temporary appointment.
I'd suggest you post in this forum, your question touches on a specific issue that only a few members know well (and one in particular follows very closely):
https://www.canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/forums/permanent-residency-obligations.11/
-To be clear, time spent accompanying you would NOT count for citizenship purposes, except in (relatively rare) case that your appointment is a secondment from a Canadian govt institution or some other very specific exceptions. (About which you would likely know already)
-For PR purposes (that is for the residency obligation or RO), possibly a posting would count, but there would be effectively no way for you to know 'in advance'. Typically moving with a spouse would count, but there is a somewhat arcane issue of how IRCC will treat cases when the PR effectively never settled in Canada (which I'm going to assume would be the case for you).
There are some other factual elements of how you two would spend your time in the ensuing years that could affect this; if you both expect to spend 3-6 months a year in Canada it'd probably be a no-brainer. But if only for occasional visit, basically your spouse would have a PR card and then during the validity of that card (five years) would eventually get asked if in compliance with the RO (which on the face of it would appear not, but could claim living with you), and then have to replace the card. It may or may not go easily, and in fact IRCC might decide the time doesn't count.
But again: none of these days would count towards citizenship. So the question also to consider, is this worth it? Apart from a PR card that gives ease of travel to Canada (at least while in compliance with the RO), and to a minor degree in some other countries (eg Mexico), there are not a lot of direct advantages except for ability to move to Canada at a moment's notice. And it probably goes without saying that the relative advantage of this may be quite small depending on what passport he holds.
You could sponsor your spouse when closer to retirement, for example. But you may both wish that he have the PR status already in the event that either or both of you were to lose your positions, or unforeseen circumstances (i.e. morbid ones). It's worth looking into and thinking about. But it's not obvious that you need it. Worth acquainting yourselves with the basics of the RO etc.
Probably clear I'm not trying to put my finger on the scales - it really does depend.
I'm also not addressing the application process and whether you could show intent to return to Canada.
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Thank you so much! I'm not seconded by the Canadian government unfortunately. And we do intend to eventually resettle in Canada but are unsure of exactly when - very hard to plan as we have kids to support, some of whom are in school, we need to maintain two incomes, and our posting end dates never really align...
Mind if I ask: How do people typically prove they intend to settle in Canada? My kids have citizenship although born abroad, and my family are all back in Canada of course so we also visit regularly but aside from that what is looked for?
Oh my goodness thank you for this incredibly thorough reply. I really appreciate it.
And I will follow your advice and post in that other forum as well.
Thank you for clarifying regarding the residency requirement difference between PR and citizenship purposes I'd been very unclear about that. I'm not seconded by Canada so that would be an issue for us I suppose.
And yes, you've put your finger on our conundrum: We have kids in school so we return every summer but aside from one year of our marriage have never managed to stay over 3 months in Canada. We were considering moving back a year ago when our son was born with health issues but when I looked into it it seemed like that would spell financial and logistical disaster for us to try to move back at a moment's notice without my spouse having a permanent residency or citizenship, even though he's American so could easily enter the country. Hence why we are looking into it now, so we could both live in the same country in case we lose our jobs, or one of us falls ill in the future, and also so that we can eventually return to Canada more easily around when our kids are in highschool.
Okay, without giving advice (you'll have to continue to look into it), him holding a US passport does change things quite a bit. Plus the ~three months a year is, well, it ain't nothing, as they say. Both of those incline me to change my mind.
-US passport holders are the exception amongst permanent residents in that they don't need a valid PR card to board a flight to Canada, the US passport is enough - which for the most part is the most pressing issues PRs have if they need to travel a lot. (Some caveats about health care and driver's licenses and some things like that).
-The three months or so a year - well, it adds up when the requirement is only three years (1095 days) in the five years before applying (only time as a PR considered of course). Meaning for him ~two and a quarter years to get to citizenship from date of moving and staying. Plus one of those periods after he becomes a PR will look enough like 'settling' to help pass the smell test of 'accompanying.'
-Simple fact is that since the PR card wouldn't be much of an issue, there's fewer chances of having an issue at border - even if out of compliance with the RO, CBSA tends to be more lenient (or what amounts to the same thing, less inclined to deal with the paperwork of an RO compliance issue / want to prioritize stuff on the 'pointier end'). Leniency possibly moreso w/ US citizens (security coop with US has historically been good, so they know they'd get alerts/flags if a US passport holder was a risk). And in circumstances where there's relatively frequent travel, and evidence he is accompanying a Canadian citizen - well, they're probably going to wave him through most of the time (CBSA officers are mostly going to decide they're not well positioned to go into detail about your living arrangements).
-Five years down the road - after the PR card has expired - there might start to be more issues, but far enough in future you can deal with the situation then.
So in your case I don't see much harm in applying earlier and him getting the PR status. Also no rush. And yes, you'd be prepared if something came up.
As for intent to settle: I don't think you have to feel guilty about applying at a point when you expect your contract(s) to expire in about a year (or 6-18 months). You'll have to make some preps to show this for the application but it sounds like your ties to Canada are likely strong enough to help with that. You'll show contracts expiring and you need to be ready to move / expect to move at that point, be ready for children, etc.
Some might complain or opine that you don't actually intend to do so now and therefore you "can't"; I disagree. Uncertainty is one thing, timing is another, but doing so on (not unrealistic) knowledge that contracts could be not renewed and changing your mind when it does is not something that would cause problems. It's not lying to say you don't know if a contract will be renewed or if you'll get another in a different locale (that may or may not be acceptable to your family, after all).
Now of course someone could look at this from a mirror image perspective and say there are other motives, or if a,b,c and d of factual / expected circumstances were just a little bit different, then it would be different. Which is true - if things were different, they'd be different. I'm only stating my opinion / perspective based on what you've put here.
Oh, side note: the abstract issue I was referring to is "who accompanies whom", which is a legal phrasing/interpretation issue in the law for residency obligation, i.e. does this mean that there is some principled issue that the PR 'accompanies' the citizen on their posting, for example, with implication that it can't be the reverse (and probably an outdated/ sexist view of 'working citizen' / 'housekeeper spouse'). Or does 'accompanied' have no such baggage and it just means they were physically in the same place.
To briefly state, IRCC doesn't seem to have one settled interpretation of what it actually means, except that they sort of reserve the right to decline or dispute when the circumstances indicate no real connection to Canada (e.g. never settled) or it drags out for ages abroad with seemingly no intent to ever return.
Basically they don't want people using PR status as a 'backup' / identity of convenience - PR is intended for people to become residents, of the permanent type. They seem to view the intent of this 'accompanying a citizen' thing to provide flexibility for some years, not '(almost) forever.'
I doubt this would come up in your specific circumstances, or at least, not for several/many years yet / far enough in the future that it's not worth worrying about.
To briefly state, IRCC doesn't seem to have one settled interpretation of what it actually means, except that they sort of reserve the right to decline or dispute when the circumstances indicate no real connection to Canada (e.g. never settled) or it drags out for ages abroad with seemingly no intent to ever return.
Basically they don't want people using PR status as a 'backup' / identity of convenience - PR is intended for people to become residents, of the permanent type. They seem to view the intent of this 'accompanying a citizen' thing to provide flexibility for some years, not '(almost) forever.'
I doubt this would come up in your specific circumstances, or at least, not for several/many years yet / far enough in the future that it's not worth worrying about.
You should be prepared to show things like work contracts ending or giving notice, either secured or interviews for jobs in Canada, securing housing or attempts to or proof of end of housing contract in your current country, etc. Many of these things are tough to prepare in advance but I would submit any additional proof during processing. Proof of family ties and regular returns to Canada. Exploring school options in Canada. Realistically given your spouse is a US citizen would not suggest applying more than a year before you plan on settling in Canada unless you want to live in Quebec. You also may be shocked at the change in cost of living since you moved away from Canada so something to consider.