Refugee status cessation and PRs applying for citizenship

[Harry9909]

hello dpenabill and all!! i am a refugee PR and unfortunately some quack lawyer misguided me as telling me there is no harm going home country and renewing home country passport. first time after getting PR i had to go to take care of my mom as im the only one in the world she had. 2nd time i had to go get married to love of my life who i was waiting for 13 years. as my lawyer told me that you have to go to back home to get married in order to sponsor her. now the situation is
1- my citizenship application is ON HOLD for the reason i made two trips back home. ATIP notes say the same
2- my wife's sponsorship is not moving at all after she passed medical axam in march.
3- i applied for her visit visa that also refused a month ago
i have all the evidences that i kept relocating from city to city when i visited back home, i hired a very professional private security services and their armed guards and vehicles kept me secured during my stay and during my relocation to each city, i stayed in different hotels and did not stay more than 3 days in a same place, i have all the proofs.
my question to the forum is
1- should i apply for mandamus?
2- what are my options to bring my wife here ASAP as me and her are going through severe mental issues due to being apart for so long
i talked to multiple lawyers but nobody comes up with a satisfactory answer. any help and guidance will be appreciated. thanks

 

[scylla]

hello dpenabill and all!! i am a refugee PR and unfortunately some quack lawyer misguided me as telling me there is no harm going home country and renewing home country passport. first time after getting PR i had to go to take care of my mom as im the only one in the world she had. 2nd time i had to go get married to love of my life who i was waiting for 13 years. as my lawyer told me that you have to go to back home to get married in order to sponsor her. now the situation is
1- my citizenship application is ON HOLD for the reason i made two trips back home. ATIP notes say the same
2- my wife's sponsorship is not moving at all after she passed medical axam in march.
3- i applied for her visit visa that also refused a month ago
i have all the evidences that i kept relocating from city to city when i visited back home, i hired a very professional private security services and their armed guards and vehicles kept me secured during my stay and during my relocation to each city, i stayed in different hotels and did not stay more than 3 days in a same place, i have all the proofs.
my question to the forum is
1- should i apply for mandamus?
2- what are my options to bring my wife here ASAP as me and her are going through severe mental issues due to being apart for so long
i talked to multiple lawyers but nobody comes up with a satisfactory answer. any help and guidance will be appreciated. thanks

1. Let dpenabill answer this one however I'm not sure there's any point in pursuing mandamus and spending that money since IRCC is reviewing your application for cessation.
2. Your spousal sponsorship application isn't going to move forward with cessation in play and I think it's extremely unlikely a TRV will be approved given the circumstances. Apart from waiting for the cessation situation to resolve itself, I think the most realistic option is for your partner to see if they can qualify and apply for PR independently through an economic immigration program like Express Entry. There's going to be no real way to get them to Canada asap.

 

[dpenabill]

hello dpenabill and all!! i am a refugee PR and unfortunately some quack lawyer misguided me as telling me there is no harm going home country and renewing home country passport. first time after getting PR i had to go to take care of my mom as im the only one in the world she had. 2nd time i had to go get married to love of my life who i was waiting for 13 years. as my lawyer told me that you have to go to back home to get married in order to sponsor her. now the situation is
1- my citizenship application is ON HOLD for the reason i made two trips back home. ATIP notes say the same
2- my wife's sponsorship is not moving at all after she passed medical axam in march.
3- i applied for her visit visa that also refused a month ago
i have all the evidences that i kept relocating from city to city when i visited back home, i hired a very professional private security services and their armed guards and vehicles kept me secured during my stay and during my relocation to each city, i stayed in different hotels and did not stay more than 3 days in a same place, i have all the proofs.
my question to the forum is
1- should i apply for mandamus?
2- what are my options to bring my wife here ASAP as me and her are going through severe mental issues due to being apart for so long
i talked to multiple lawyers but nobody comes up with a satisfactory answer. any help and guidance will be appreciated. thanks

While I have been following cessation cases closely for nearly a decade now, and have acquired quite a lot of information about the issue, I am NOT a Canadian lawyer and NO expert, and NOT qualified to give personal advice. General advice, yes, like do not travel to the home country, that's easy. But I cannot offer much insight into how best to proceed once actions have been taken that could support grounds for the cessation of status in Canada (other than to NOT engage in any more such activity).

I can say that if your citizenship application is on hold because CBSA is proceeding with cessation, there is not much you can do while that is still pending. That said, I can say it would be a good idea to find a lawyer you can trust, and then rely on that lawyer to give you the advice and assistance. I am NOT a Canadian lawyer. A Canadian lawyer is a far better resource.

If you can, it might be worthwhile getting a sworn affidavit from the lawyer who gave you advice about traveling to your home country, to memorialize that advice. As I noted in the post you quote, there is a tendency to dismiss or at least not give much weight to the "I didn't know" defense, so any objective evidence supporting that might help. But even as to this, again, I am NOT a Canadian lawyer, and a Canadian lawyer experienced with cessation cases would be a far, far source of information.

"i talked to multiple lawyers but nobody comes up with a satisfactory answer"​

Not sure what you mean by a "satisfactory answer," but I can easily guess that saying there is not much to do at this stage other than wait to see what CBSA does is not a "satisfactory answer."

Evaluate what lawyers have to offer based on the extent to which you can trust the lawyer to know the law and how it is applied, and how it affects you. In are in a situation for which the truth might not be a "satisfactory answer."

Edit to clarify: That is, YOU are in a situation in which it appears what a lawyer can offer (the truth) is probably not an answer you prefer, not satisfactory . . . not satisfactory in the sense it does not give you what you want. Note, for example, most Canadian immigration lawyers, nearly all I'd expect, would have truthfully advised you to NOT get a home country passport, NOT travel to the home country, which given the situation you were in would not have been a "satisfactory answer" even though that is well-founded advice. I am, after all, quite surprised a lawyer advised otherwise . . . leading to . . .​

Among responses from lawyers that are not satisfactory, I suspect you may run into much difficulty getting an affidavit from the lawyer confirming you were given erroneous advice (so if you got that in writing, much better). Lawyers tend to be among those who say don't-blame-me and I-did-not-give-bad-advice, you-must-have-misunderstood-me.

Sorry I cannot help much. I understand this is undoubtedly a very difficult situation. Find the best lawyer you can and see what they can offer. You can talk to a lawyer about trying to push the citizenship application ahead, but that could push CBSA to push ahead with cessation, so be sure you are dealing with a lawyer you can trust to look at all the angles not just what on the surface might appear to be favourable to you.

 

[Harry9909]

While I have been following cessation cases closely for nearly a decade now, and have acquired quite a lot of information about the issue, I am NOT a Canadian lawyer and NO expert, and NOT qualified to give personal advice. General advice, yes, like do not travel to the home country, that's easy. But I cannot offer much insight into how best to proceed once actions have been taken that could support grounds for the cessation of status in Canada (other than to NOT engage in any more such activity).

I can say that if your citizenship application is on hold because CBSA is proceeding with cessation, there is not much you can do while that is still pending. That said, I can say it would be a good idea to find a lawyer you can trust, and then rely on that lawyer to give you the advice and assistance. I am NOT a Canadian lawyer. A Canadian lawyer is a far better resource.

If you can, it might be worthwhile getting a sworn affidavit from the lawyer who gave you advice about traveling to your home country, to memorialize that advice. As I noted in the post you quote, there is a tendency to dismiss or at least not give much weight to the "I didn't know" defense, so any objective evidence supporting that might help. But even as to this, again, I am NOT a Canadian lawyer, and a Canadian lawyer experienced with cessation cases would be a far, far source of information.

"i talked to multiple lawyers but nobody comes up with a satisfactory answer"​

Not sure what you mean by a "satisfactory answer," but I can easily guess that saying there is not much to do at this stage other than wait to see what CBSA does is not a "satisfactory answer."

Evaluate what lawyers have to offer based on the extent to which you can trust the lawyer to know the law and how it is applied, and how it affects you. In are in a situation for which the truth might not be a "satisfactory answer."

Edit to clarify: That is, YOU are in a situation in which it appears what a lawyer can offer (the truth) is probably not an answer you prefer, not satisfactory . . . not satisfactory in the sense it does not give you what you want. Note, for example, most Canadian immigration lawyers, nearly all I'd expect, would have truthfully advised you to NOT get a home country passport, NOT travel to the home country, which given the situation you were in would not have been a "satisfactory answer" even though that is well-founded advice. I am, after all, quite surprised a lawyer advised otherwise . . . leading to . . .​

Among responses from lawyers that are not satisfactory, I suspect you may run into much difficulty getting an affidavit from the lawyer confirming you were given erroneous advice (so if you got that in writing, much better). Lawyers tend to be among those who say don't-blame-me and I-did-not-give-bad-advice, you-must-have-misunderstood-me.

Sorry I cannot help much. I understand this is undoubtedly a very difficult situation. Find the best lawyer you can and see what they can offer. You can talk to a lawyer about trying to push the citizenship application ahead, but that could push CBSA to push ahead with cessation, so be sure you are dealing with a lawyer you can trust to look at all the angles not just what on the surface might appear to be favourable to you.

 

[Harry9909]

hello all and dpenabill. my application was ON HOLD for 8 months and just received GCMS notes. tracker says LPP pending. now application status is blank. im unable to understand few terms in GCMS notes and dont know what they mean. any help to understand them is appreciated.

1-
Event Office: Mississauga IRCC
Event Jurisdiction:
App #: XXXXXXXXX
App Status:
App Status Reason:

2-
LANGUAGE
Language Evidence Submission: Required

3-
RESIDENCE
Entry To Canada:
Became PR: 2021/01
Total Days Absent: 68
Basic Residence: 1165
Physical Presence: 1097
Calendar Years Met:

4-
RESUMPTION
Claim:
Loss Of Citizenship:
Loss Of British Subject Status:

5-
CLEARANCE REQUEST(S)
RCMP/CSIS: Y

6-
Location: Grant Assessment Analysis-C

7-
CLEARANCES
SECURITY: 1
Type: Security Clearance

8-
APPEALS AND LITIGATION
LITIGATION

 

[dpenabill]

While GCMS records can be helpful for SOME (just some) applicants for citizenship, SOME of the time, generally the GCMS notes do not reveal much at all beyond what an applicant knows or can otherwise figure out based on what they know. This appears to be particularly so if there is a cessation related hold. So I cannot offer much if anything . . . except to emphasize you can either wait to see what comes next or obtain the services of a lawyer you can trust and rely on.

hello all and dpenabill. my application was ON HOLD for 8 months and just received GCMS notes. tracker says LPP pending. now application status is blank. im unable to understand few terms in GCMS notes and dont know what they mean. any help to understand them is appreciated.

1-
Event Office: Mississauga IRCC
Event Jurisdiction:
App #: XXXXXXXXX
App Status:
App Status Reason:

2-
LANGUAGE
Language Evidence Submission: Required

3-
RESIDENCE
Entry To Canada:
Became PR: 2021/01
Total Days Absent: 68
Basic Residence: 1165
Physical Presence: 1097
Calendar Years Met:

4-
RESUMPTION
Claim:
Loss Of Citizenship:
Loss Of British Subject Status:

5-
CLEARANCE REQUEST(S)
RCMP/CSIS: Y

6-
Location: Grant Assessment Analysis-C

7-
CLEARANCES
SECURITY: 1
Type: Security Clearance

8-
APPEALS AND LITIGATION
LITIGATION

 

[Harry9909]

I am copying here whole information again, so everyone can read the whole case in one go.

Couple (husband and wife) Entered Canada 2015
Refugee Accepted 2016
PR Granted 2017
Visited home country 2019 due to father's critical health for around 3 weeks
upon arrival in Canada examined by CBSA and given benefit of doubt because no IDs were renewed
January 2020 Applied for Citizenship
March 2021 Fingerprints done and Background updated in portal
June 2021 Citizenship test done and updated in Portal
February 2022 got a letter from CBSA for interview and its attended - it was 1.5 hour questions answer session
Oct 2023 interview requested by IRCC and we attended interview (we got email saying "We are please to inform you that we are taking application to the next step ...")
April 2024 - All updated to COMPLETED other than OATH

 

[Harry9909]

im in the same boat . can you tell what they asked when CBSA called you for interview? any help will be appreciated

 

[Blind Dolphin]

im in the same boat . can you tell what they asked when CBSA called you for interview? any help will be appreciated

I took my lawyer with me who was sitting beside me only to observe. I was the one only who had to answer.

Questions Officer Asked;

Why you went to home country?
How much time you spent there?
What circumstances you faced during this trip?
Who you visited and what cities you went to and where did you stay?
What are you doing in Canada?
Whats your job and activities?
Where are your other family members?
and some small questions about the trip to back home

First thing, as my trip was totally genuine due to reason my father was on death bed so I spent full time only with him. I took all precautionary measures before I went there and got whole information about my agents of persecution. I re confirmed the information again after reaching at back home airport and I had not informed any single person about my arrival even my family and father as well.

Most important and positive thing in my case was my ID, Driving License and Bank Cards of home country were expired and I didn't renew any of them at all so they checked them and gave me benefit of doubt.. If i had renewed a single of them, they would consider it re-availment.

Lastly, officer asked about the blue book if i have knowledge about it but I said I don't know what's that.. Later my lawyer explained that officer was talking about Refugee Travel Document. Office may be wanted to check if I knew about RTD and then why not I applied for that to travel and why I travelled on my country passport.

Make sure to read the facts again from your Basics of Information and the story you put in front of them in hearing. they can ask again couple of questions from that to verify credibility but it all depends upon how long was your trip, reason, and how to manage to satisfy them.

 

[scylla]

I took my lawyer with me who was sitting beside me only to observe. I was the one only who had to answer.

Questions Officer Asked;

Why you went to home country?
How much time you spent there?
What circumstances you faced during this trip?
Who you visited and what cities you went to and where did you stay?
What are you doing in Canada?
Whats your job and activities?
Where are your other family members?
and some small questions about the trip to back home

First thing, as my trip was totally genuine due to reason my father was on death bed so I spent full time only with him. I took all precautionary measures before I went there and got whole information about my agents of persecution. I re confirmed the information again after reaching at back home airport and I had not informed any single person about my arrival even my family and father as well.

Most important and positive thing in my case was my ID, Driving License and Bank Cards of home country were expired and I didn't renew any of them at all so they checked them and gave me benefit of doubt.. If i had renewed a single of them, they would consider it re-availment.

Lastly, officer asked about the blue book if i have knowledge about it but I said I don't know what's that.. Later my lawyer explained that officer was talking about Refugee Travel Document. Office may be wanted to check if I knew about RTD and then why not I applied for that to travel and why I travelled on my country passport.

Make sure to read the facts again from your Basics of Information and the story you put in front of them in hearing. they can ask again couple of questions from that to verify credibility but it all depends upon how long was your trip, reason, and how to manage to satisfy them.

Thanks for sharing these details. You just had the single trip back to visit your father, correct?

 

[Moon1965]

Hi everyone,
I have submitted my citizenship application, and I did 2 mistakes as anyone else that was not aware of not doing them, first I renewed my passport and one travel to Australia with that, now after test and background check change to passed, they arrange in person interview for me, anyone can help what is the best answer I can give to officer if asked about my passport renewal and travel with that based on your experience?
Thank you so much!

 

[dpenabill]

Hi everyone,
I have submitted my citizenship application, and I did 2 mistakes as anyone else that was not aware of not doing them, first I renewed my passport and one travel to Australia with that, now after test and background check change to passed, they arrange in person interview for me, anyone can help what is the best answer I can give to officer if asked about my passport renewal and travel with that based on your experience?
Thank you so much!

Obviously the best answer to give during an interview is the honest and accurate answer based on the facts. Sure, there have been many who were, let's say "creative," and did quite well by it. But more often they do not do well. If there is a problem, being "creative" in responding to questions will tend to make the problem more difficult because, at the least, it raises concerns about the applicant's credibility, and that is like throwing sand into the gear system.

Meanwhile, it is not clear that you have a problem. This could simply be the typical, routine interview given to many citizenship applicants.

In particular, if you are not a PR-refugee or someone with protected person status, see other topics where the routine interview is discussed. It is no big deal at all.

Even if you are a PR-refugee or otherwise have protected person status . . .

Even if you are a PR-refugee or otherwise have protected person status, unless you traveled to the country you fled the odds are this is still the typical, routine interview given to many citizenship applicants.

Technically just getting a passport plus using it can be grounds for cessation of status, which is a problem. BUT we have seen no sign that doing this is triggering a cessation investigation let alone CBSA proceeding with a cessation case UNLESS there has been travel to the home country or the country the refugee otherwise fled from.

(Since Australia is not on the list of countries we typically see people fleeing or otherwise needing asylum from, I am assuming that is not the country you fled, and your passport is not an Australian passport.)

So, again, even if you are a PR-refugee or otherwise have protected person status, this looks like the typical, routine interview. No cessation problem lurking. Typical verification of documents, mostly to confirm identity, verify ability in one of the official languages, and some questions to see if your responses are consistent with the information in the application.

If, however, you are a PR-refugee or otherwise have protected person status AND you have traveled to the country you fled or the country that issued you the passport, that's a more difficult scene. Still the best approach is to answer the questions honestly and accurately, without deceit or evasion, but . . . well, this is not the place to get advice other than the advice to SEE a LAWYER and get advice from the lawyer.

 

[rizhaque]

What will happen if refugee losses his or her PR status ?

 

[scylla]

What will happen if refugee losses his or her PR status ?

They would ultimately need to leave Canada if all appeals fail.

 

[rizhaque]

After losses Pr status refugee can be sponsor by his or her spouse who is already PR living in Canada?