Thank you!
I have contacted the MP and am waiting for their reply. I did request three GCMS notes and called five times. I should request notes through the security agencies directly.
Thanks again!
stuck on security screening
- Thread starter baimmeb
- Start date
I have contacted the MP and am waiting for their reply. I did request three GCMS notes and called five times. I should request notes through the security agencies directly.
Thanks again!
Once its more than the processing time you can always Writ. Based on IRCC doc (from 2016) says the detailed SS usually take 2 months. If you have assured (by CSIS notes, GCMS notes etc, MP remarks etc.) that you are stuck since April you are g2g for writ.
Also, lawyers charge for initial consultation so if you have made ur mind to writ then go for it. Prefer listening to ppl who have done it rather who have just given it a thought.
Also, lawyers charge for initial consultation so if you have made ur mind to writ then go for it. Prefer listening to ppl who have done it rather who have just given it a thought.
I have not requested CSIS notes. I only asked for three GCMS notes, and the security section has been removed. I passed criminality only. The agent also confirmed on the phone that I am in security screening.
Can you recommend a lawyer?
Same here only bg and prohibition left SS started in March im also thinking of doing mandamus please update if its works.
Thank you
I'll take your word for it if you got your citizenship after a writ of mandamus you went for right after you passed the average time then, and not after a long delay. That's good omen for @kyoussef .
Cheers
Hi, I talked to couple of attorneys and they both said that I should wait till February/March 25 to consider applying for Mandamus. I am in the same boat as you. Applied in December 23 and stuck in Security and Prohibitions.
I cannot say or opine when you (or any particular individual) should pursue mandamus relief. I can offer some observations about navigating the question, including the easy observation this is something to discuss with an experienced, reputable lawyer. And to also say that this is not something to rely on what anyone in this forum advises.
The real question for an applicant in this situation, by the way, is not whether it is time to pursue mandamus relief. The question is: when is it time to obtain advice and assistance from a lawyer about what to do next and when? Make no mistake, the question is not just about WHEN but also about IF, and about what else can be done, what else should be done.
REMINDER Re Mandamus In Citizenship Application Processing:
In regards to applications for grant citizenship, to qualify for Mandamus relief requires establishing more grounds (more reasons) than the amount of time that has passed beyond published processing times. And, at least practically, a good lawyer.
As many have said, including @Seym above, day before yesterday, to determine IF and WHEN to seek Mandamus relief see a lawyer. Not just a free consultation, but a paid for consultation based on the lawyer reviewing the details in YOUR particular case. So, just to find out if it is time to pursue mandamus relief will cost hundreds of dollars.
So, again, most who are asking about when is it time to seek mandamus relief should be asking when is it time to consult with a lawyer about pursuing mandamus relief.
No one here can reliably say when a citizenship applicant can get mandamus relief. Any advice here that purports to say when it is time to actually make an application for mandamus relief, in regards to an application for citizenship, is NOT reliable. To reliably assess when it is time requires, at the very least, a careful examination of the applicant's whole situation, a review of details in depth and of a sort that it would be foolish to share in a forum like this. Again, when is about a lot, a lot more than just how much time has passed.
Meanwhile, in most contexts (not all) to qualify for a Writ of Mandamus in regards to an application for citizenship (in contrast, say, to an application for a visa or an application for a non-immigration matter), processing of the application must be at a stage where IRCC needs no more information to make a determination, that is the application must be at a stage where IRCC has all that it needs to decide whether:
-- to grant citizenship, or
-- to deny the application, or
-- to refer the application to a Citizenship Judge (referrals to a CJ can happen in cases where physical presence is in issue)
The practical reality (again, this is in regards to citizenship applications, not other types of applications, not visa applications) is that if the application really is "stuck in security," meaning there has been a referral to CSIS or CBSA (to be handled by its NSSD) for further investigation, and IRCC really is waiting on the results of the referral, there are (with some unusual exceptions) insufficient grounds to obtain mandamus relief. That is, it is NOT time to make an application for a Writ of Mandamus. (There are uncommon exceptions, which is mostly a tangent into the realm of CSIS or CBSA unreasonably failing to complete an investigation and IRCC failing to appropriately address the delay.)
HOWEVER, when citizenship applicants believe their application is "stuck in security" very often (probably usually) the processing is not actually stuck in security, it is merely stuck in a queue waiting for a processing agent or citizenship officer to proceed to the next step in processing during which the completed security check will be noted and checked off as complete in the file requirements checklist. So far as we continue to see, it is common for IRCC personnel (especially call centre agents) to refer to an application as waiting on security given that this has not been checked off in the applicant's GCMS, despite the fact that the security clearance has in fact been completed, just no notation to that effect made in the file yet. (This might also be true in regards to other types of applications, which could explain why some obtain a prompt positive action by IRCC in regards to a PR visa application, for example, following a well-crafted mandamus-related demand by a reputable lawyer; but I am not sure of the practical parameters in pursuing mandamus relief in other matters such as PR visa applications -- I am specifically addressing the citizenship application context.)
So, here's the thing, the deal, in most (not all) citizenship application cases where it appears that pursuing mandamus has resulted in a prompt and positive outcome, it is very likely that IRCC was very close to proceeding with approving the application and scheduling the oath relatively soon, if not quite soon. That is, if a lawyer's demand to IRCC made as the first/requisite step in pursuing mandamus promptly results in the oath being scheduled, odds are high IRCC was going to schedule the oath in the near future anyway. In contrast, if the application is not at that stage, not about to be scheduled for the oath soon anyway, pursuing the Writ is NOT likely to lead to taking the oath much sooner (assuming that is going to be the outcome of the application).
That is, exercising patience (and yeah, dealing with IRCC can really test one's patience) will save most citizenship applicants the cost of paying unnecessary legal fees.
For those willing to pay many hundreds of dollars, into the thousands, to gamble on being scheduled for the oath three or six months sooner than they might otherwise, there are at least a few lawyers out there who will be pleased to take the money.
CAVEAT: There are situations in which citizenship applicants need to pursue mandamus relief, situations in which what is at stake is not merely about trying to accelerate finalization of the application. There are also some citizenship applicants who actually have security related issues interfering with IRCC's processing of the application. These scenarios are in LAWYER-UP country. This is not about IRCC taking four or eight months longer than it is taking for most other applicants. If, for example, the application really is stuck in security; that is, if there really is a security issue involved holding things up, again that is LAWYER-UP country. Mandamus may be in the cards in such a case, but to navigate the situation best to employ the assistance of a good lawyer.
Observations About Why Mandamus is Lawyer-stuff:
Lawyers are in a far better place to offer an opinion and advice about IF and if so, WHEN to pursue mandamus relief. This is because (in part):
-- experienced lawyers are familiar with the law and, very importantly, the procedure
-- experienced lawyers are familiar with numerous, if not many actual cases covering a variety of scenarios, not just the experience of a few individuals
-- a lawyer can appropriately review the facts, the details of a case, in depth, and in confidence, and this is absolutely critical
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Further FWIW, FWII Observations Regarding Mandamus Relief For Citizenship Applicants:
. . . mostly some clarification . . .
. . . for clarification: Only the Federal Court can issue a Writ of Mandamus ordering IRCC to take a particular action in regards to a citizenship application. Individuals cannot "Writ" at all, anytime. Rather, individuals may make an application to the Federal Court for a Writ of Mandamus compelling a government agency to do what the law mandates the agency must do.
Note: I recognize that you did not mean to say a citizenship applicant can issue a Writ of Mandamus but, rather . . . well, it is not clear what you actually mean by "can always Writ." Who can apply and be denied is a far larger pool of applicants than those who will actually get mandamus relief.
Meanwhile, discussions about mandamus relief in this forum tend to gloss over the procedure involved, which can be misleading.
Most of the anecdotal reporting of success here, as in success in getting mandamus relief in regards to a citizenship application, is really about IRCC responding positively to a lawyer's formal demand. In particular, a formal demand meeting quite strict requirements must be made to IRCC before an application for the Writ can be properly made. Technically a lawyer is not necessary but practically the formalities of this are complex and strict, and strictly applied, so the odds of successfully doing this are rather poor unless the formal demand is drafted and submitted by a reputable lawyer. (Take notice of the rather common report here of lawyers saying "not yet," and since that means the lawyer is turning down, or at the least delaying getting paid money, that typically really does mean NOT yet.)
Many who report a positive outcome in pursuing mandamus relief are probably referring to IRCC positively responding to such a demand, not that a Federal Court application for the Writ was made let alone a Writ issued. (For anyone who thinks IRCC processing is slow, prosecuting cases in the Federal Court, even strong cases, is typically even more slow -- so, unless IRCC in effect concedes, an application for Mandamus will generally take many months just to get heard.)
Hard to confirm, but it appears quite likely that most of the cases having a positive, successful result, are cases in which IRCC would likely have proceeded to approving the application within a few months, perhaps even just weeks, anyway.
Proceeding to make an application to the Federal Court, to actually seek a Writ if IRCC does not positively respond to the demand is, well, more complicated, a bigger deal. And it will take far longer than many anticipate.
While individual experience can be helpful, mostly as an illustration, there are way too many variables involved to rely on an individual's personal experience as a guide for what to do or what to expect. Doing some homework can help, digging into the research (including searching for reliable accounts of experiences in multiple cases), but this really is lawyer-stuff. I suppose that to some extent well-informed forum members might be able to credibly say when it is too soon. But a lawyer's help is really needed to know if and when it might be time to make the formal demand that is a prerequisite to properly making an application for mandamus relief.
Moreover, there are more than a few in this forum who will offer advice as if their experience is relevant to situations which are materially different. For example, beware that some of those commenting about being "stuck in security" scenarios here, in regards to citizenship application processing, are doing so as if there is little or no difference between security checks for Foreign Nationals applying for a visa or permit in Canada versus the situation when a Canadian (only Canadians, those with PR status, are eligible for a grant of citizenship) is applying for a grant of citizenship. Spoiler alert: not the same is, well, NOT the same, and it often makes a difference.
As I observed in the previous post, and it is worth repeating, lawyers are in a far better place to offer an opinion and advice about IF and if so, WHEN to pursue mandamus relief. This is because (in part):
As for your experience . . .
That said, again I do not intend to discourage you from offering input here. Sharing your experience and what you have learned from it can be of real help to others. But it helps to keep things in perspective and in context, and in particular to not overreach. I hope you understand and can use these clarifications.
. . . mostly some clarification . . .
At the risk of being picky, perhaps even overly tough on you . . . hoping this does not discourage you from sharing your experience and what you have learned . . . but since pursuing mandamus relief in the context of a citizenship application is complicated and expensive . . .
. . . for clarification: Only the Federal Court can issue a Writ of Mandamus ordering IRCC to take a particular action in regards to a citizenship application. Individuals cannot "Writ" at all, anytime. Rather, individuals may make an application to the Federal Court for a Writ of Mandamus compelling a government agency to do what the law mandates the agency must do.
Note: I recognize that you did not mean to say a citizenship applicant can issue a Writ of Mandamus but, rather . . . well, it is not clear what you actually mean by "can always Writ." Who can apply and be denied is a far larger pool of applicants than those who will actually get mandamus relief.
Meanwhile, discussions about mandamus relief in this forum tend to gloss over the procedure involved, which can be misleading.
Most of the anecdotal reporting of success here, as in success in getting mandamus relief in regards to a citizenship application, is really about IRCC responding positively to a lawyer's formal demand. In particular, a formal demand meeting quite strict requirements must be made to IRCC before an application for the Writ can be properly made. Technically a lawyer is not necessary but practically the formalities of this are complex and strict, and strictly applied, so the odds of successfully doing this are rather poor unless the formal demand is drafted and submitted by a reputable lawyer. (Take notice of the rather common report here of lawyers saying "not yet," and since that means the lawyer is turning down, or at the least delaying getting paid money, that typically really does mean NOT yet.)
Many who report a positive outcome in pursuing mandamus relief are probably referring to IRCC positively responding to such a demand, not that a Federal Court application for the Writ was made let alone a Writ issued. (For anyone who thinks IRCC processing is slow, prosecuting cases in the Federal Court, even strong cases, is typically even more slow -- so, unless IRCC in effect concedes, an application for Mandamus will generally take many months just to get heard.)
Hard to confirm, but it appears quite likely that most of the cases having a positive, successful result, are cases in which IRCC would likely have proceeded to approving the application within a few months, perhaps even just weeks, anyway.
Proceeding to make an application to the Federal Court, to actually seek a Writ if IRCC does not positively respond to the demand is, well, more complicated, a bigger deal. And it will take far longer than many anticipate.
When to actually pursue mandamus relief should be based on a lawyer's full and careful review of the particular individual's case.
While individual experience can be helpful, mostly as an illustration, there are way too many variables involved to rely on an individual's personal experience as a guide for what to do or what to expect. Doing some homework can help, digging into the research (including searching for reliable accounts of experiences in multiple cases), but this really is lawyer-stuff. I suppose that to some extent well-informed forum members might be able to credibly say when it is too soon. But a lawyer's help is really needed to know if and when it might be time to make the formal demand that is a prerequisite to properly making an application for mandamus relief.
Moreover, there are more than a few in this forum who will offer advice as if their experience is relevant to situations which are materially different. For example, beware that some of those commenting about being "stuck in security" scenarios here, in regards to citizenship application processing, are doing so as if there is little or no difference between security checks for Foreign Nationals applying for a visa or permit in Canada versus the situation when a Canadian (only Canadians, those with PR status, are eligible for a grant of citizenship) is applying for a grant of citizenship. Spoiler alert: not the same is, well, NOT the same, and it often makes a difference.
As I observed in the previous post, and it is worth repeating, lawyers are in a far better place to offer an opinion and advice about IF and if so, WHEN to pursue mandamus relief. This is because (in part):
-- experienced lawyers are familiar with the law and, very importantly, the procedure
-- experienced lawyers are familiar with multiple, if not numerous actual cases covering a variety of scenarios, not just one individual's experience
-- a lawyer can appropriately review the facts, the details of a case, in depth, and in confidence, and this is absolutely critical
As for your experience . . .
Meanwhile, in regards to personal experience pursuing mandamus relief in regards to a citizenship application, it appears that you are not among those who have "done it," at least NOT in terms of those who have pursued mandamus relief in regards to an application for citizenship stuck in security. In fact it appears you have not even applied for citizenship (and perhaps are not even eligible for citizenship, as yet anyway). Again, not the same is not the same.
That said, again I do not intend to discourage you from offering input here. Sharing your experience and what you have learned from it can be of real help to others. But it helps to keep things in perspective and in context, and in particular to not overreach. I hope you understand and can use these clarifications.