PFL for not disclosing US Voluntary Departure.

[CNNAKF]

@scylla @Naturgrl @legalfalcon - Everyone, need help please.

• Summary: I applied for a Canadian visit visa in March 2021. Received a PFL in May 2024 (stating a 5-year ban could be slapped) for misrepresentation of ‘US visa refusal and enforcement history’.
• Background: Resided in the US from 2001 - 2006 for undergrad.
• My wife is a Canadian citizen. Happily married since 2013. Never applied for a PR, nor do I intend to at least in the next ~5 / 7 years given I have no intention to move to Canada.
  • Issue 1: I did not mention a 2013 US visa refusal. Reason: I was honestly not aware that my US visit visa application in 2013 resulted in a rejection. I am not entirely sure how to convince IRCC, but this is the plain and simple truth.
  • My 2013 US visit visa app went into 'Administrative Processing'. I kept checking the status of the application for at least 1 - 1.5 years, however, after no update, I forgot about it given I had no intent to travel to the US - the work related commitment (original reason to apply ) had long passed too. I moved countries / employment in 2014.
  • Only after receiving IRCC's PFL, I now realize that my 2013 application was a refusal. I have never received any feedback from the US embassy. Perhaps because I left the Company I was working for when I applied for the visa. The email address in the US application was my company email. I have that specific US application in my record.
  • In 2015, I received a US visa and travelled to the US in 2015 and in 2017.

• Issue 2: At the conclusion of my undergrad in 2006, I was late in applying for an Optional Practical Training permit, a 1-year work visa provided to all international students. I appealed for more time, but the appeal was denied. I was informed by my university that I should depart the US soon / quick because my visa has ended. I departed after 5-7 weeks - after selling my car, taking care of my rental lease, banks, etc., informing US immigration myself of my date / flight / airport of departure. Immigration authorities came and picked me from the airport, after I had checked in for my flight / boarding pass in hand (1-hour to go in flight departure).
• I requested an upfront voluntary departure at Immigration hearing 5 weeks later, despite my lawyer informing me that an appeal could be filed for me to stay in the US longer.
• Reason: I did not disclose this information in my Canadian visa application, honestly thinking that Voluntary Departure is not deportation or forcible or ordered removal. I have read up on the difference online and at least all online sources say it's not.
• The Canadian TRV question states: Have you ever been refused a visa or permit, denied entry or ordered to leave Canada or any other country or territory? I was not denied entry or ordered to leave the US. I was leaving (in fact, I was at the airport!), and eventually left voluntarily.
• Not sure if it matters even but since 2006, I have travelled extensively (minimum 60 trips across 25 countries), including twice to the US itself - others: UK, Italy, Austria, Germany, Turkey, Singapore, Japan, Thailand, Korea, Philippines, Uzbekistan, Dubai, Qatar, India, Armenia, Georgia, Serbia, Ukraine, etc. Two trips to Canada, but in 2003 and 2004.

Need help please!

 

[CNNAKF]

@scylla @Naturgrl @legalfalcon

Requesting thoughts / feedback pls

 

[scylla]

@scylla @Naturgrl @legalfalcon - Everyone, need help please.

• Summary: I applied for a Canadian visit visa in March 2021. Received a PFL in May 2024 (stating a 5-year ban could be slapped) for misrepresentation of ‘US visa refusal and enforcement history’.
• Background: Resided in the US from 2001 - 2006 for undergrad.
• My wife is a Canadian citizen. Happily married since 2013. Never applied for a PR, nor do I intend to at least in the next ~5 / 7 years given I have no intention to move to Canada.
  • Issue 1: I did not mention a 2013 US visa refusal. Reason: I was honestly not aware that my US visit visa application in 2013 resulted in a rejection. I am not entirely sure how to convince IRCC, but this is the plain and simple truth.
  • My 2013 US visit visa app went into 'Administrative Processing'. I kept checking the status of the application for at least 1 - 1.5 years, however, after no update, I forgot about it given I had no intent to travel to the US - the work related commitment (original reason to apply ) had long passed too. I moved countries / employment in 2014.
  • Only after receiving IRCC's PFL, I now realize that my 2013 application was a refusal. I have never received any feedback from the US embassy. Perhaps because I left the Company I was working for when I applied for the visa. The email address in the US application was my company email. I have that specific US application in my record.
  • In 2015, I received a US visa and travelled to the US in 2015 and in 2017.

• Issue 2: At the conclusion of my undergrad in 2006, I was late in applying for an Optional Practical Training permit, a 1-year work visa provided to all international students. I appealed for more time, but the appeal was denied. I was informed by my university that I should depart the US soon / quick because my visa has ended. I departed after 5-7 weeks - after selling my car, taking care of my rental lease, banks, etc., informing US immigration myself of my date / flight / airport of departure. Immigration authorities came and picked me from the airport, after I had checked in for my flight / boarding pass in hand (1-hour to go in flight departure).
• I requested an upfront voluntary departure at Immigration hearing 5 weeks later, despite my lawyer informing me that an appeal could be filed for me to stay in the US longer.
• Reason: I did not disclose this information in my Canadian visa application, honestly thinking that Voluntary Departure is not deportation or forcible or ordered removal. I have read up on the difference online and at least all online sources say it's not.
• The Canadian TRV question states: Have you ever been refused a visa or permit, denied entry or ordered to leave Canada or any other country or territory? I was not denied entry or ordered to leave the US. I was leaving (in fact, I was at the airport!), and eventually left voluntarily.
• Not sure if it matters even but since 2006, I have travelled extensively (minimum 60 trips across 25 countries), including twice to the US itself - others: UK, Italy, Austria, Germany, Turkey, Singapore, Japan, Thailand, Korea, Philippines, Uzbekistan, Dubai, Qatar, India, Armenia, Georgia, Serbia, Ukraine, etc. Two trips to Canada, but in 2003 and 2004.

Need help please!

Sorry, I'm not sure what your question is. You need to respond to the PFL, confirm you failed to declare these refusals / requirements to leave, and provide the details around each. You can indicate you weren't aware of the first refusal and also weren't aware that you had to declare the voluntary departure. I would stick to the issues you have been asked to address and also sincerely apologize for the error. I don't think I can provide any further guidance beyond that.

 

[CNNAKF]

Sorry, I'm not sure what your question is. You need to respond to the PFL, confirm you failed to declare these refusals / requirements to leave, and provide the details around each. You can indicate you weren't aware of the first refusal and also weren't aware that you had to declare the voluntary departure. I would stick to the issues you have been asked to address and also sincerely apologize for the error. I don't think I can provide any further guidance beyond that.

@scylla - Thank you! Any case precedents that you may be aware of for issue no 1 above. Does it help if I cite precedent cases with similar unknowing misrep, which were successful at the JR stage? Should I lawyer up surely or try to respond myself.

 

[scylla]

@scylla - Thank you! Any case precedents that you may be aware of for issue no 1 above. Does it help if I cite precedent cases with similar unknowing misrep, which were successful at the JR stage? Should I lawyer up surely or try to respond myself.

I definitely would not cite precedent cases. This is not the right approach to the PFL response. You need to apologize for the omissions, provide the details, and explain why you did not declare. The PFL is about taking full responsibility for your actions and about providing the information you did not include.

The time to quote cases is if you find yourself in an actual appeal situation.

If you want to find cases, you'll need to search on the canlii site.

It's your choice if you use a lawyer.

 

[CNNAKF]

Got it. Thank you! I'll apologize for the inadvertent mistake, take 100% responsibility, and provide the background. Not sure if it'll convince the VO.

 

[scylla]

Got it. Thank you! I'll apologize for the inadvertent mistake, take 100% responsibility, and provide the background. Not sure if it'll convince the VO.

Yes, that should be the focus of your response.

There are essentially three outcomes possible:
- you are approved
- you are refused but not banned
- you are refused and banned for 5 years

Good luck.

 

[CNNAKF]

Thank you! I surely understand the outcomes, unfortunately...stakes are high. I don't want my immigration record tarnished - any further.

The answer to issue # 2 is surely 'No' in the TRV app. I have read a precedent case - same issue (VD from the US), and the JR judge agrees that the answer to a Voluntary Departure from the US is No on the TRV app.

Proving Issue # 1 is indeed and truly a mistake on my part - which is actually true...is hard.

Thanks for your feedback!

 

[armoured]

The answer to issue # 2 is surely 'No' in the TRV app. I have read a precedent case - same issue (VD from the US), and the JR judge agrees that the answer to a Voluntary Departure from the US is No on the TRV app.

What the judge considers to be a yes or no is not necessarily what an immigration officer thinks and may act upon in terms of deciding how to handle your file.

Regardless of what you (and/ or the judge) may think the 'right' answer is, strongly recommend you disclose what happened with a letter of explanation. Brief, factual - eg was voluntary departure (brief description of narrative).

Leaving your number 2 out because you don't think it meets the test is far worse than marking yes or no and providing the facts.

 

[CNNAKF]

Agreed. I do not plan to leave any detail out. I was merely mentioning that I’ve read a case ( Sbayati vs Canada) where at the JR stage, a judge set the VO’s misrep decision aside.

I plan to share all details and background circumstances of the two incidences, and as to why I thought I was answering the Yes / No question correctly. And sincerely apologize for my faulty understanding.

Thanks for your feedback!

 

[armoured]

Agreed. I do not plan to leave any detail out. I was merely mentioning that I’ve read a case ( Sbayati vs Canada) where at the JR stage, a judge set the VO’s misrep decision aside.

I plan to share all details and background circumstances of the two incidences, and as to why I thought I was answering the Yes / No question correctly. And sincerely apologize for my faulty understanding.

Thanks for your feedback!

No worries, wasn't an accusation, just noting that the judicial review stage is not a good guide in this case for what the IRCC wants to see - but rather full disclosure.

 

[CNNAKF]

Agreed. And Thanks so much again.

I am struggling with what proof to provide for #1. Ironically, it is only after receiving the IRCC PFL did I realize that my US visa app (2013) was perhaps a refusal. Until I tracked the application, 1 - 1.5 years after applying in 2013...it remained in Admin Processing.

 

[scylla]

Agreed. And Thanks so much again.

I am struggling with what proof to provide for #1. Ironically, it is only after receiving the IRCC PFL did I realize that my US visa app (2013) was perhaps a refusal. Until I tracked the application, 1 - 1.5 years after applying in 2013...it remained in Admin Processing.

You're overthinking. There's no proof to provide. You simply say that you didn't know that administrative processing equates to a refusal. You knew the application went into administrative processing. What you didn't know is that this is classified as a refusal.

 

[CNNAKF]

Admin processing = refusal? I didn't know that. Hmm...I thought the US refused my application 2 - 2.5 years later or something, much like how now IRCC came back after 3.25 years on my app.

I am indeed over-thinking in trying to show case and prove my innocence.

 

[CNNAKF]

@scylla @Naturgrl

Case update: To close the loop and for others benefit.

I hired legal counsel to respond to the PFL, though I largely wrote the response myself. IRCC responded to the PFL in about 1 month, asking for passport submission. I imagine and hope that my passport is being requested to stamp a visa.