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Taxes/Payroll - Working in US/ Living in Windsor

ejackson6691

Newbie
Jun 8, 2023
5
1
How if the US employer does not have Canadian site? The situation is quite similar to digital nomad nowadays. Then why pay roll tax matters?

If I am not US tax resident, then I file 1040NR, the tax rate is higher than form 1040. Supposed these tax I paid to US can be claimed as Foreign tax credit at Canada, then I told CRA that since I have paid IRS so the CRA can only ask me to pay the difference. Why is that not OK? If I pay CRA first, it sounds like I need to ask IRS to refund me more? But how? Based on what? Tax treaty? Otherwise I will pay more tax if IRS refuse to refund me more because I work for US employer but physically in Canada. Another way is can we request IRS not to withhold?

Also, how does your a few days in US per month can work this thing out? Long term speaking, a person can only be tax resident in one country (183 days out of 365 days a year). For this discussion, it should always be Canada.
The issue revolves around the fact that tax laws and treaties were established many years ago and haven't considered remote working scenarios. Consequently, Canada Revenue Agency (CRA) agents may interpret these outdated tax laws in ways that can be challenging for remote workers.

In cases where a U.S. employer doesn't have a physical presence in Canada, they often engage third-party payroll companies to serve as the Canada Employer of Record. The problem arrises when they don't use these payroll services for remote workers as I explain below.

Article XV of the 1980 US-Canada Tax treaty states that the country whose employer borne's the remuneration, that country has the right to tax the income, regardless of the time spent working there. If a U.S. company is paying you and is claiming deduction on their tax return(which every company does, they claim your salary as operating expense), the US and thereby IRS has the right to tax you. so you can't ask for IRS not to withhold the taxes and neither can you claim refund based on tax treaty. Ideally you should file US taxes first and claim Foreign tax credit on your CRA return which according to treaty pretty much says US has the right. This is what people who regularly travel to US do. However there is also a Canadian tax law which states Foreign employer hiring a Canadian resident who only works in Canada has to withhold taxes and remit it to CRA. Due to this, CRA audits these remote workers claiming you should first file Canadian taxes. I am not a tax accountant but probably it would work like this, Pay taxes to Canada and then file 1040 or 1040 NR with IRS where you will mention your income and will attach CRA tax return to claim Foreign tax credit and ask for refund from IRS. So refund is based on tax paid to Canada. IRS should refund you back the taxes which were withheld.

However, if you travel to the U.S. for a few days for work purposes, CRA cannot require your foreign employer to withhold taxes for Canada during that period because you are performing work in the U.S. In this scenario, the tax treaty from 1980 specifies that the U.S. has the primary right to tax. This situation is more straightforward because the laws are well-established.

In summary, tax laws can be highly complex, and the assumption that you only need to pay taxes in one country based on a specific number of days of residence (e.g., 183 days) doesn't always hold true. The interplay between tax treaties and national tax laws can result in intricate tax situations for remote workers.

Note: If you truly want to work remote, then we can work as independent contractor on 1099. You can submit form w8-BEN and no taxes will be withheld by IRS. Or go with C2C.
 
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swan0206

Champion Member
May 14, 2019
1,209
232
How if the US employer does not have Canadian site? The situation is quite similar to digital nomad nowadays. Then why pay roll tax matters?

If I am not US tax resident, then I file 1040NR, the tax rate is higher than form 1040. Supposed these tax I paid to US can be claimed as Foreign tax credit at Canada, then I told CRA that since I have paid IRS so the CRA can only ask me to pay the difference. Why is that not OK? If I pay CRA first, it sounds like I need to ask IRS to refund me more? But how? Based on what? Tax treaty? Otherwise I will pay more tax if IRS refuse to refund me more because I work for US employer but physically in Canada. Another way is can we request IRS not to withhold?

Also, how does your a few days in US per month can work this thing out? Long term speaking, a person can only be tax resident in one country (183 days out of 365 days a year). For this discussion, it should always be Canada.
Generally most of the people those are in your situation had done and been doing like this: File taxes on US side first and then file taxes on Canadian side. plain and straight forward.

Also @ejackson6691 Also if you are going that deep to claim ssn as foreign tax credit you are going to stuck in audits forever. Just go plain and simple as if you are filing it as a commuter. CRA doesn't want to spend so much on your case. If you want to give them that leverage then its your call. Hire a tax consultant keep shedding dollars and deal with it.

obviously we are going to be losing some extra dollars setting up this arrangement but it is what it is. Are you here for your citizenship? then just complete the days pay taxes Apply citizenship and leave. If you are here to dig deeper and calculate to get back every dime of yours then may be you need to stepback and think twice before you move.
 
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ejackson6691

Newbie
Jun 8, 2023
5
1
Generally most of the people those are in your situation had done and been doing like this: File taxes on US side first and then file taxes on Canadian side. plain and straight forward.

Also @ejackson6691 Also if you are going that deep to claim ssn as foreign tax credit you are going to stuck in audits forever. Just go plain and simple as if you are filing it as a commuter. CRA doesn't want to spend so much on your case. If you want to give them that leverage then its your call. Hire a tax consultant keep shedding dollars and deal with it.

obviously we are going to be losing some extra dollars setting up this arrangement but it is what it is. Are you here for your citizenship? then just complete the days pay taxes Apply citizenship and leave. If you are here to dig deeper and calculate to get back every dime of yours then may be you need to stepback and think twice before you move.
I am sorry, what do you mean by filing as a commuter?
You mean don't claim SSN and forgo it as tax paid to IRS. My Social taxes is like 10k.
 

swan0206

Champion Member
May 14, 2019
1,209
232
I am sorry, what do you mean by filing as a commuter?
You mean don't claim SSN and forgo it as tax paid to IRS. My Social taxes is like 10k.
The point is something new that no one has raised till date. I am surprised that you are asking for ssn money back which is not yours untill you are 65. Social security contributions is a bogus scheme. Forget about it. I can eloborate it some other time.

Here is some related post for you not exactly what you are expecting but similar .

https://www.canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/threads/can-i-transfer-social-security-money-from-us-to-canada.95715/
 
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monglebest

Newbie
Aug 20, 2023
8
1
I use one of the below:
US: olt, turbotax, taxact, taxslayer
Canada: Simpletax, ufile.

You can file online for Canada also but not sure if it works for you.

Filing methods/steps i use to avoid audit from cra: File US online. Wait till refund arrives. Apply for transcript via mail from IRS and State. File Canada one via paper(after including original W2, original transcripts).
Stupid thing what cra does is to ask for these documents in original for many of us(my colleagues) hence we follow this method. Even on 401k exemption i could not get it last year because they wanted all damn documents in original(the ones that were physically mailed to us).
I was thinking if I need to file 1040NR, then I should use Sprintax or OLT. (I have used Sprintax before but never with OLT for 1040NR)
One thing I was thinking is that since F1 OPT student works in US are also considered non resident alien for tax purpose. I don't see contributing to HSA causes any problem.
 

harirajmohan

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Mar 3, 2015
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yes, Thats what I mean by payroll taxes, If I work remote than it means I am employed by US employer in Canada not in US, which requires them to deduct taxes and remit to CRA.

Since you are a Canadian resident you pay to CRA taxes on your global income, you can claim taxes paid to US as credit, thats what I mean by Foreign tax credit(FTC). When working remote completely from Canada, CRA is taking issue with claiming FTC on taxes paid to IRS. They are saying, Tax returns should be first filed in Canada and then take Tax credit on US side, thereby paying taxes to Canada and asking for a refund from IRS. This can result to cash flow issue as you have to pay CRA even though your taxes might have been withheld by your employer and paid to IRS.

From what I can see traveling few days a month is safest approach. thereby you can easily claim FTC and everyone is happy.


@harirajmohan If I can't get a refund from IRS on my Social Security, can I claim it as Foreign Tax Credit?
Per law, you can show the foreign taxes paid hence they cannot deny(but not sure about the actual taxes owed which cra trying to get more taxes for the period of work while inside Canada). I dont know if they actually implementing as its not easy for both them and us. Will see.
 

harirajmohan

VIP Member
Mar 3, 2015
6,162
1,666
Category........
Visa Office......
Sydney, NS
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
29-May-2015
Doc's Request.
30-Dec-2015 ReminderEmail(PCCs, NewPassport via cse 31-Dec-2015)
Nomination.....
SK 22-Apr-2015
AOR Received.
11-Aug-2015
Med's Request
23-Dec-2015
Med's Done....
20-Jan-2016
Passport Req..
26-May-2016 (BGC In Progress 25-May-2016)
VISA ISSUED...
PP Reached Ottawa:27-May-2016, Received:10-Jun-2016
LANDED..........
PR: 09-Jul-2016, PR Card: 17-Aug-2016
I was thinking if I need to file 1040NR, then I should use Sprintax or OLT. (I have used Sprintax before but never with OLT for 1040NR)
One thing I was thinking is that since F1 OPT student works in US are also considered non resident alien for tax purpose. I don't see contributing to HSA causes any problem.
Right. NO issues in contributing to hsa. You can just keep it active for long term and if you move then you can anyway use it. nowadays there are more options of investing on hsa money too hence surely a good tax saving instrument.
 

jasbir101

Full Member
May 4, 2022
38
1
Request inputs on my scenario .. I am so confused reading this

https://www.canada.ca/en/revenue-agency/services/tax/international-non-residents/information-been-moved/determining-your-residency-status.html


Can some one please point to good cross border tax consultant.. I am so confused


Background

My spouse has been working in Canada on work permits since 2022 and paying taxes. I

had been working in USA on H1b and visiting her less then 183 days in year on tourist visa and I am resident of USA for tax purposes.I got copr approved in Nov 2023 and landed in Jan 2024 as Pr . In next 2 years my spouse will be able to apply for citizenship and then will come to USA . In these two years I am trying to acquire as much time for my Pr renewal as possible but not spending not more then 183 in Canada in a year to avoid paying high taxes.. I am not targeting citizenship for myself..



Question

1.For year 2023 I am considered non resident of Canada for tax purposes even though I have residential ties spouse living in Canada on work permit ?I landed as PR in Jan 2024



2.In year 2024 if I plan to come to Canada on (Friday and leave Monday ) .Such that I spent less then 183 days In Canada and more time in USA then in such case do I need to pay tax in Canada for income I earn in USA? Or I would be considered non resident of Canada for tax purposes?



3.If I do daily commute from Windsor to Detroit than I understand I would be considered resident for tax purposes in Canada.And take tax credit of tax already paid in USA.
 

mayple

Star Member
Dec 30, 2017
195
56
Request inputs on my scenario .. I am so confused reading this

https://www.canada.ca/en/revenue-agency/services/tax/international-non-residents/information-been-moved/determining-your-residency-status.html


Can some one please point to good cross border tax consultant.. I am so confused


Background

My spouse has been working in Canada on work permits since 2022 and paying taxes. I

had been working in USA on H1b and visiting her less then 183 days in year on tourist visa and I am resident of USA for tax purposes.I got copr approved in Nov 2023 and landed in Jan 2024 as Pr . In next 2 years my spouse will be able to apply for citizenship and then will come to USA . In these two years I am trying to acquire as much time for my Pr renewal as possible but not spending not more then 183 in Canada in a year to avoid paying high taxes.. I am not targeting citizenship for myself..



Question

1.For year 2023 I am considered non resident of Canada for tax purposes even though I have residential ties spouse living in Canada on work permit ?I landed as PR in Jan 2024



2.In year 2024 if I plan to come to Canada on (Friday and leave Monday ) .Such that I spent less then 183 days In Canada and more time in USA then in such case do I need to pay tax in Canada for income I earn in USA? Or I would be considered non resident of Canada for tax purposes?



3.If I do daily commute from Windsor to Detroit than I understand I would be considered resident for tax purposes in Canada.And take tax credit of tax already paid in USA.
1. Non-resident if you didn't even land as a PR until this month (Jan 2024)
2. If you spend less than 183 days in Canada then you're likely not a tax resident, especially if you have stronger ties in the US/outside of Canada
3. Commuting = Canadian tax residency since you're indicating (by commuting) that Canada is home.
Get a cross border tax consultant to help with the best option for your situation. It's worth paying consulting fee to get expert advice rather than guessing is what I would recommend
 
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jasbir101

Full Member
May 4, 2022
38
1
1. Non-resident if you didn't even land as a PR until this month (Jan 2024)
2. If you spend less than 183 days in Canada then you're likely not a tax resident, especially if you have stronger ties in the US/outside of Canada
3. Commuting = Canadian tax residency since you're indicating (by commuting) that Canada is home.
Get a cross border tax consultant to help with the best option for your situation. It's worth paying consulting fee to get expert advice rather than guessing is what I would recommend
Thank you for taking time to respond. I called 3 tax consultants in Windsor area and all of them said they are not taking new clients.. Can you recommend any names that I can try ?
 

jasbir101

Full Member
May 4, 2022
38
1
Can we claim credit for all taxes ( federal,state , social security tax and Medicare) paid in USA in Canada tax return ?
 

swan0206

Champion Member
May 14, 2019
1,209
232
Can we claim credit for all taxes ( federal,state , social security tax and Medicare) paid in USA in Canada tax return ?
My 2cents. You cannot claim tax on ssn. As that is something you are saving for future when you retire. Mostly on the same grounds is Medicare as well if im not wrong.
 
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jasbir101

Full Member
May 4, 2022
38
1
Please share inputs..I am trying to find tax consultant who understands cross border tax and is fine to take new client.I have not be able to find one yet.. Below point is stressing me as I see if I have to pay tax to Canada then it will be 20k usd on My USA salary (around150k usd with 401k max out)..it is essential for my move..I just got pr and working on H1b in USA.. Spouse is on PR and working in Canada.. I have not filed taxes in Canada last two years as I am deemed non resident even though my spouse was in Canada.Now since I got PR does getting PR makes me liable to pay tax in Canada because I have spouse living in Canada? Do I need pay tax in Canada even when I am going to Canada randomly ( like once in 1 month for a week or so ) and maintaining rental residence in USA or frequency doesn’t matter and no matter I am tax resident in Canada ?
 

swan0206

Champion Member
May 14, 2019
1,209
232
Please share inputs..I am trying to find tax consultant who understands cross border tax and is fine to take new client.I have not be able to find one yet.. Below point is stressing me as I see if I have to pay tax to Canada then it will be 20k usd on My USA salary (around150k usd with 401k max out)..it is essential for my move..I just got pr and working on H1b in USA.. Spouse is on PR and working in Canada.. I have not filed taxes in Canada last two years as I am deemed non resident even though my spouse was in Canada.Now since I got PR does getting PR makes me liable to pay tax in Canada because I have spouse living in Canada? Do I need pay tax in Canada even when I am going to Canada randomly ( like once in 1 month for a week or so ) and maintaining rental residence in USA or frequency doesn’t matter and no matter I am tax resident in Canada ?
You are not required to pay taxes if you become a PR. And similarly you dont pay taxes if your spouse is living in Canada. You would become a tax resident only if you reside in Canada( you are spending most of your time in Canada in a given year just like in USA how you meet the Substantial presence test). Coming once in a month or twice a month doesn’t bound you to pay taxes. But as you say you are going to stay for a week every month thats going to be 12 weeks in a year. In this scenario you might become a tax resident. Its better you pay taxes if this is the case. Its not going to be too much as you think. Its going to be very minimal as you are not a resident of Canada primarily. Also this helps you when you file your citizenship in the future.
 
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