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PR renewal online application, RO presumably met with days working for Canadian business overseas, how slow can it be?

kong20100902

Full Member
May 7, 2016
22
1
Surrey, BC
Category........
PNP
Visa Office......
Sydney
App. Filed.......
06-04-2017
Nomination.....
19-04-2017
AOR Received.
04-08-2017
Passport Req..
04-09-2018
LANDED..........
10-01-2019
I am in a very special situation. I got my PR status in Jan 2019 and from Feb 2020-July 2023 I worked for a Canadian business in the US during which period I got paid in CAD and paid federal and BC tax. I moved back to Canada in July 2023 and live near the border. My employer requires me to work in our US office just across the border in Washington State Mon-Wed. When I came back home today from work, I was sent to CBSA secondary inspection. Officer told me to contact IRCC in order to get my PR renewed ASAP otherwise I will be pulled in every time I cross border. I submitted my application back in Aug and it has been 4 months. I tried web form and calling customer service, no meaningful action was taken. Apparently I do not want the hussle and bussle at the border, what suggestions do you have for me to expedite the case? Thanks.
 

steaky

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Nov 11, 2008
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I am in a very special situation. I got my PR status in Jan 2019 and from Feb 2020-July 2023 I worked for a Canadian business in the US during which period I got paid in CAD and paid federal and BC tax. I moved back to Canada in July 2023 and live near the border. My employer requires me to work in our US office just across the border in Washington State Mon-Wed. When I came back home today from work, I was sent to CBSA secondary inspection. Officer told me to contact IRCC in order to get my PR renewed ASAP otherwise I will be pulled in every time I cross border. I submitted my application back in Aug and it has been 4 months. I tried web form and calling customer service, no meaningful action was taken. Apparently I do not want the hussle and bussle at the border, what suggestions do you have for me to expedite the case? Thanks.
Try to phone IRCC or send them a webform.
 
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Naturgrl

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Apr 5, 2020
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I am in a very special situation. I got my PR status in Jan 2019 and from Feb 2020-July 2023 I worked for a Canadian business in the US during which period I got paid in CAD and paid federal and BC tax. I moved back to Canada in July 2023 and live near the border. My employer requires me to work in our US office just across the border in Washington State Mon-Wed. When I came back home today from work, I was sent to CBSA secondary inspection. Officer told me to contact IRCC in order to get my PR renewed ASAP otherwise I will be pulled in every time I cross border. I submitted my application back in Aug and it has been 4 months. I tried web form and calling customer service, no meaningful action was taken. Apparently I do not want the hussle and bussle at the border, what suggestions do you have for me to expedite the case? Thanks.
So from Feb 2020-July 2023 did you live outside of Canada? If so, were you transferred to their foreign office and had a work permit.
 

canuck78

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Jun 18, 2017
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I am in a very special situation. I got my PR status in Jan 2019 and from Feb 2020-July 2023 I worked for a Canadian business in the US during which period I got paid in CAD and paid federal and BC tax. I moved back to Canada in July 2023 and live near the border. My employer requires me to work in our US office just across the border in Washington State Mon-Wed. When I came back home today from work, I was sent to CBSA secondary inspection. Officer told me to contact IRCC in order to get my PR renewed ASAP otherwise I will be pulled in every time I cross border. I submitted my application back in Aug and it has been 4 months. I tried web form and calling customer service, no meaningful action was taken. Apparently I do not want the hussle and bussle at the border, what suggestions do you have for me to expedite the case? Thanks.
You have multiple potential issues. Do you have a US work visa? Did you work for your Canadian employer in Canada from January 2019- Feb 2020? Did you verify with CRA that you were a Canadian tax resident during the period when you lived in the US. What made you a BC resident? It is actually quite hard to count time working abroad for a Canandian employer. There are many factors in your situation which may make it impossible including the fact that you are still working in the US the majority of the week.
 
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steaky

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You have multiple potential issues. Do you have a US work visa? Did you work for your Canadian employer in Canada from January 2019- Feb 2020? Did you verify with CRA that you were a Canadian tax resident during the period when you lived in the US. What made you a BC resident? It is actually quite hard to count time working abroad for a Canandian employer. There are many factors in your situation which may make it impossible including the fact that you are still working in the US the majority of the week.
The majority of the week is Thu-Sun, which OP is not required to work in the US. Besides, OP appears to be a green card holder.
 
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dpenabill

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Apr 2, 2010
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I am in a very special situation. I got my PR status in Jan 2019 and from Feb 2020-July 2023 I worked for a Canadian business in the US during which period I got paid in CAD and paid federal and BC tax.
The Setting; Where Things Stand:

If you qualify for the working-abroad RO credit and thus you are in compliance with the PR Residency Obligation, you can RELAX. However long it takes to process the PR card application, issue and deliver you a new PR card, should not matter much. You do not even need a valid PR card. If this goes on for awhile, your expired PR card will suffice for driving across the border (at least into Canada; I don't know what U.S. side requires).

Border officials cannot (and will not) deny you entry into Canada. Again, even if you only have an expired PR card to present. They can examine your RO compliance. So, the border crossing may involve increased inconvenience a few times, but if you do not have a RO compliance issue, that inconvenience is not likely, not at all, to continue. (More about this below.)

Meanwhile, yes, if IRCC completes processing your PR card application, determines you meet your RO, approves the application and issues a new PR card, that too would likely eliminate referrals for Secondary screening during border crossings. That would solve the problem of inconvenient border screening. There are, however, no guarantees about how long that is going to take. Telephone calls and webform communications are not likely to accelerate the timeline, not by much.

The catch: What happens going forward depends on you actually being in RO compliance, which in turn, at this juncture, depends on your time in the U.S. qualifying for the working-abroad credit. This is the real issue, the real fulcrum in your situation. If your information and supporting documents show RO compliance, the hassle of Secondary at the border is going to diminish, probably go away. If your information and supporting documents show RO compliance, your PR card application should not take too much longer and you should have a new card in hand before too long.

In contrast, if there are concerns about whether you are in RO compliance, questions challenging your entitlement to RO credit for time working-abroad, the PR card application is likely to get bogged down in non-routine processing with potentially significant delays. And, meanwhile, in one of these upcoming referrals to CBSA Secondary at the border, attendant a more thorough and formal examination of your RO compliance, if there are real concerns about your RO compliance a decision will be made whether to prepare a 44(1) Inadmissibility Report, and if so, that would be followed (probably then and there, while you are still in the PoE) by a determination whether to allow you to retain PR status or whether to issue a Removal Order.

That is to say your situation does not depend so much on accelerating IRCC's processing of your PR card application anywhere nearly as much as it depends on your information and supporting documents showing you qualify for the working-abroad credit and therefore meet the RO. This is what looms largest in your situation. Qualifying for this credit is subject to some strict criteria, and many PRs have misunderstood and misjudged how the criteria apply in their particular situation. There is more to it than just being employed by an ostensibly Canadian business while outside Canada. So some will say something like it is "hard to count time working abroad for a Canadian employer."

Nonetheless, if you do actually qualify for the working-abroad RO credit, as I said above, you can probably relax. To the extent there are repeated referrals to Secondary when crossing the border, they should become routine, brief and not difficult, and it is NOT likely you will actually be "pulled in every time," nowhere near that.

The Catch About The Catch: There are enough hints of a potential admissibility issue to apprehend the possibility it is not readily clear you qualify for the working-abroad RO credit. Meaning there may be an underlying problem here more serious than the inconvenience of repeated referrals to Secondary. In fact, that's the fulcrum:

If there is no serious underlying issue regarding your RO compliance, there is no serious problem, no reason to apprehend that future border crossings are going to be much inconvenient let alone pose a serious problem.
In contrast, if there is reason for CBSA or IRCC to question your RO compliance, to challenge the claim for working-abroad RO credit, that's likely to be the real issue, the real problem . . . and spoiler alert: if this is an issue, at the very least it is likely your PR card application has gone into non-routine processing and that could take significantly longer, perhaps a lot longer.


Dealing With Secondary at the Border:

To the extent there are repeated referrals to Secondary going forward, mostly be prepared to readily explain:
-- your are a PR living in Canada (presenting your PR card)​
-- you meet the RO and have applied for a new PR card​
-- you are regularly traveling into the U.S. to work on assignment by your Canadian employer (may be good idea to carry and present a copy of the letter from your employer you submitted with your PR card application)​
And carry in hand, in a way that makes it easy to present, copies of certain documents, including a copy of the employer's letter (the one you included with your PR card application, or a more recent version), and documents showing your address in Canada, and a copy of a Notice of Assessment (or other tax-related document showing Canadian employment), or two, from previous years. No need for a lot. Just a few, keeping it simple.

Unless there is reason to challenge the working-abroad RO credit, thus reason to question your RO compliance and whether you are inadmissible, that should resolve any concerns border officials have. Subsequent referrals to Secondary should go easier and easier, and actually are NOT likely to continue, at least not frequently.

BUT, again, there are indications that there may be an issue about qualifying for the working-abroad credit, leading to . . .

Main Thing; Qualifying for The Working-Abroad RO Credit:

Since you have already made an application for a new PR card in which you rely on the working-abroad credit, I assume that you followed the instructions and provided supporting documents in accordance with the section of Appendix A, in the guide for a PR card application titled "Situation A. Employment outside Canada." So you probably have reviewed the applicable criteria and provided the required letter from an official in your employer's business meeting the criteria described in the instructions.

A lot could ride on how well the letter from your employer documents meeting the criteria for the working abroad credit. If the letter shows what is listed in the guide, supports your claim to working-abroad credit (that you were outside Canada on a TEMPORARY assignment for your employer, a qualified Canadian business, expected to return to Canada to work for that employer IN Canada when the assignment is done), that should do the trick . . . you should be OK . . . and assuming your factual situation does support the credit and RO compliance, you can probably shrug off the border official's threat.


What If Your Time In U.S. Does Not Qualify for Working-Abroad Credit?

That's H&C consideration time. Big subject. Just as tricky as qualifying for the working-abroad credit.

For now, prepare to make your working-abroad RO credit case to border officials and, meanwhile, maybe review what you submitted with your PR card application, looking especially at the employer's letter in conjunction with what is described in appendix A in the guide, and objectively (as best you can) take careful stock of how confident you are that you are entitled to the working-abroad credit. And decide whether to ride with it, see a lawyer, or pose some further questions here.
 
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canuck78

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Jun 18, 2017
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The majority of the week is Thu-Sun, which OP is not required to work in the US. Besides, OP appears to be a green card holder.
Not sure why you feel the need to comment on the majority of my posts but the typical work week is Mon-Fri. If a person has continued to work Mon-Wed in the US it would be hard to argue to the had returned to work in Canada for their Canadian employer. In order to count time abroad working for a Canadian employer you have to be working for the employer in Canada first, show a temporary transfer abroad and then return to Canada and be working for the employer. At the moment OP is working 3 out of 5 days in the US so has not returned to work in Canada for their Canadian employer.
 

Ponga

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Not sure why you feel the need to comment on the majority of my posts but the typical work week is Mon-Fri. If a person has continued to work Mon-Wed in the US it would be hard to argue to the had returned to work in Canada for their Canadian employer. In order to count time abroad working for a Canadian employer you have to be working for the employer in Canada first, show a temporary transfer abroad and then return to Canada and be working for the employer. At the moment OP is working 3 out of 5 days in the US so has not returned to work in Canada for their Canadian employer.

I think this is being missed:
When I came back home today from work, I was sent to CBSA secondary inspection.
That would have been on a Monday.


Since the OP appears to be commuting across the border [perhaps daily from Mon-Wed] isn't this a moot point? They state that they live near the border, so if they are driving home every night, this has no impact at all on the days needed to be in Canada to meet the Residency Obligation, right? No need to even worry about counting days working in the US in terms of compliance to maintain PR status if returning every night. It may be more of an issue with CBP if they are `working' in Washington state, albeit for a Canadian company.
 

YVR123

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Jul 27, 2017
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I think this is being missed:

That would have been on a Monday.


Since the OP appears to be commuting across the border [perhaps daily from Mon-Wed] isn't this a moot point? They state that they live near the border, so if they are driving home every night, this has no impact at all on the days needed to be in Canada to meet the Residency Obligation, right? No need to even worry about counting days working in the US in terms of compliance to maintain PR status if returning every night. It may be more of an issue with CBP if they are `working' in Washington state, albeit for a Canadian company.
OP is living in Canada and commuting to work 3 days a week (returning to home everyday) since July 2023.
I think OP is trying to count the days that he/she worked for the Canadian company before he moved back to qualify for PR card renewal.

It's hard to tell that the Canadian business is sending OP to work in US temporay since he is still working 3 days across the border.
Not sure how OP works in US for Canadian business while on green card. And I am not sure how US count days living in US while OP work in US but live in Canada.
 
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Ponga

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OP is living in Canada and commuting to work 3 days a week (returning to home everyday) since July 2023.
I think OP is trying to count the days that he/she worked for the Canadian company before he moved back to qualify for PR card renewal.

It's hard to tell that the Canadian business is sending OP to work in US temporay since he is still working 3 days across the border.
Not sure how OP works in US for Canadian business while on green card. And I am not sure how US count days living in US while OP work in US but live in Canada.
Ahh...guess who [must have] missed THAT part. LOL!
 

steaky

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Not sure why you feel the need to comment on the majority of my posts but the typical work week is Mon-Fri. If a person has continued to work Mon-Wed in the US it would be hard to argue to the had returned to work in Canada for their Canadian employer. In order to count time abroad working for a Canadian employer you have to be working for the employer in Canada first, show a temporary transfer abroad and then return to Canada and be working for the employer. At the moment OP is working 3 out of 5 days in the US so has not returned to work in Canada for their Canadian employer.
But the poster working dates in the US (with the same Canadian employer) is from Mon to Wed which is not the majority of the week. Do your math!
 

armoured

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But the poster working dates in the US (with the same Canadian employer) is from Mon to Wed which is not the majority of the week. Do your math!
This sounds more like the typical arrangement now to work from home a few days a week (actual usual place of work in the USA.)

I'd wonder if the OP has actually returned to work for the Canadian employer in Canada, rather than (continuing) to work for the US affiliate of the Canadian company.

Which I suppose could raise the issue of whether the original terms of the temporary employment have been fulfilled. But that's a topic I don't know much about.
 
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canuck78

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But the poster working dates in the US (with the same Canadian employer) is from Mon to Wed which is not the majority of the week. Do your math!
We are talking about the work week which in this case is Mon-Fri. That means they are working in the US 3 out of 5 days.
 

canuck78

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Jun 18, 2017
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I think this is being missed:

That would have been on a Monday.


Since the OP appears to be commuting across the border [perhaps daily from Mon-Wed] isn't this a moot point? They state that they live near the border, so if they are driving home every night, this has no impact at all on the days needed to be in Canada to meet the Residency Obligation, right? No need to even worry about counting days working in the US in terms of compliance to maintain PR status if returning every night. It may be more of an issue with CBP if they are `working' in Washington state, albeit for a Canadian company.
As others have pointed out the real issue is about counting days abroad before returning back to Canada.

Not sure how OP is going to meet their residency requirements for the green card unless they have been working in the US while not in Canada.
 

steaky

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We are talking about the work week which in this case is Mon-Fri. That means they are working in the US 3 out of 5 days.
No, you previously talk about the week (Mon to Sun) and now you talk about the work week (Mon to Fri). Two different things. Yet, we both agree OP work in the US 3 out of 5 days (Mon-Wed).

Here's what you wrote previously:

You have multiple potential issues. Do you have a US work visa? Did you work for your Canadian employer in Canada from January 2019- Feb 2020? Did you verify with CRA that you were a Canadian tax resident during the period when you lived in the US. What made you a BC resident? It is actually quite hard to count time working abroad for a Canandian employer. There are many factors in your situation which may make it impossible including the fact that you are still working in the US the majority of the week.