Conjugal sponsorship advice

[Devin42]

I've been reading this forum for a while and it's been really helpful so far. My partner and I are trying to live together in Canada and would really appreciate any advice on what to do. Thanks!

I met my partner online in October 2020. She lives in Kenya and doesn't have any way to show strong enough ties to Kenya in order to qualify for a TRV to come visit me in Canada. Pretty much everything we saw said she would not get a TRV because she doesn't have dependent children, steady employment, or any significant assets and because she would be coming to visit me, her partner, it would be a red flag that she would overstay her visa. We did not apply for a visa as the processing time is over a year and it is sure to be rejected.

Eventually I was able to go to Kenya In November 2022 and we lived together for 4 months. During that time we got engaged and tried our best to get married but unfortunately our application was rejected due to circumstances beyond our control.

The Kenyan marriage registrar requested the certificate of no impediment to marriage. Canada does not provide this document so I went to the High Commission of Canada in Nairobi and got a statement in lieu of the certificate of no impediment to marriage and a sworn affidavit stating I was legally eligible for marriage.

These documents were not enough to convince the Kenyan marriage registrar to let us get the marriage certificate and they asked for a marriage search letter from Quebec. Quebec only issues this document in French but they will provide a courtesy translation of the document to English. (The english copy provided by Quebec does not have an official embossed seal like the French version)

When we submitted the document they said it had to be certified first at the Canadian High Commission. This is where the High Commission of Canada stamped the documents with a blue stamp that said "Certified true copy of the original" and another red stamp that said "The High Commission of Canada does not verify the contents of this document". I already knew this was going to be an issue but they assured us it would be fine.

After we submitted the stamped documents we were again rejected for the marriage certificate and the reason they gave was because of the red stamp saying they do not verify the contents. We tried to explain and even provided a letter given to us from the High Commission explaining that as a federal office they don't verify the information on marriages which is handled by the provincial government but that the documents were authentic and that's why they used both the blue and red stamps.

We visited the High Commission of Canada in Nairobi a few more times and asked them to help us find a way to get married. I even extended my trip an additional month while they said they were trying to find a solution with the Kenyan government. But despite everything we tried we were able to convince the Kenyan marriage registrar to give us a marriage certificate even though our documents were genuine.

Needless to say it was stressful and heart breaking leaving Kenya after doing everything we could to try to get married and being constantly rejected. Since I returned we have put together an application for my partner to apply for permanent residence through conjugal partner sponsorship.

I know conjugal sponsorship is very difficult to be approved but I don't know what else we can do at this point and we are both suffering from being away from each other. It would have been a normal spousal sponsorship if we had been able to get married but I think our situation fits the category of conjugal due to her being unable to get a visa and us being unable to get married in Kenya or live together for more than 6 months max if I go there on a Visa.

Finally we got some good news when the new policy came out recently that lets people who are getting sponsored for PR through family class get a TRV in 30 days and an open work permit for outland sponsorships.

We are about to submit her conjugal sponsorship application but before we do there are some questions we could really use some advice on:

1. Does this new policy mean they are going to be more lenient about showing strong ties when applying for TRV when you have a sponsorship PR application in progress?

2. What do you think the chances are of us getting approved for the conjugal partner sponsorship and the TRV if we get an AOR? We have pretty strong evidence in our application of our struggle to get the marriage certificate and proof of our relationship (chat history and financial support as well as proof of visit and letters of support from family members and photos of us together in Kenya and at our engagement party with friends and family).

3. If we get an AOR for the conjugal sponsorship application then we apply for a TRV and she gets approved and comes to Canada. Do we still qualify for the conjugal sponsorship since we would now be able to get married in Canada? Is there a way to convert an outland conjugal sponsorship into an inland spousal sponsorship?

4. Any other general advice for what to do in our situation?

Thanks in advance for taking the time to help us figure this out!

 

[armoured]

I've been reading this forum for a while and it's been really helpful so far. My partner and I are trying to live together in Canada and would really appreciate any advice on what to do. Thanks!

I met my partner online in October 2020. She lives in Kenya and doesn't have any way to show strong enough ties to Kenya in order to qualify for a TRV to come visit me in Canada. Pretty much everything we saw said she would not get a TRV because she doesn't have dependent children, steady employment, or any significant assets and because she would be coming to visit me, her partner, it would be a red flag that she would overstay her visa. We did not apply for a visa as the processing time is over a year and it is sure to be rejected.

Eventually I was able to go to Kenya In November 2022 and we lived together for 4 months. During that time we got engaged and tried our best to get married but unfortunately our application was rejected due to circumstances beyond our control.

The Kenyan marriage registrar requested the certificate of no impediment to marriage. Canada does not provide this document so I went to the High Commission of Canada in Nairobi and got a statement in lieu of the certificate of no impediment to marriage and a sworn affidavit stating I was legally eligible for marriage.

These documents were not enough to convince the Kenyan marriage registrar to let us get the marriage certificate and they asked for a marriage search letter from Quebec. Quebec only issues this document in French but they will provide a courtesy translation of the document to English. (The english copy provided by Quebec does not have an official embossed seal like the French version)

When we submitted the document they said it had to be certified first at the Canadian High Commission. This is where the High Commission of Canada stamped the documents with a blue stamp that said "Certified true copy of the original" and another red stamp that said "The High Commission of Canada does not verify the contents of this document". I already knew this was going to be an issue but they assured us it would be fine.

After we submitted the stamped documents we were again rejected for the marriage certificate and the reason they gave was because of the red stamp saying they do not verify the contents. We tried to explain and even provided a letter given to us from the High Commission explaining that as a federal office they don't verify the information on marriages which is handled by the provincial government but that the documents were authentic and that's why they used both the blue and red stamps.

We visited the High Commission of Canada in Nairobi a few more times and asked them to help us find a way to get married. I even extended my trip an additional month while they said they were trying to find a solution with the Kenyan government. But despite everything we tried we were able to convince the Kenyan marriage registrar to give us a marriage certificate even though our documents were genuine.

Needless to say it was stressful and heart breaking leaving Kenya after doing everything we could to try to get married and being constantly rejected. Since I returned we have put together an application for my partner to apply for permanent residence through conjugal partner sponsorship.

I know conjugal sponsorship is very difficult to be approved but I don't know what else we can do at this point and we are both suffering from being away from each other. It would have been a normal spousal sponsorship if we had been able to get married but I think our situation fits the category of conjugal due to her being unable to get a visa and us being unable to get married in Kenya or live together for more than 6 months max if I go there on a Visa.

Finally we got some good news when the new policy came out recently that lets people who are getting sponsored for PR through family class get a TRV in 30 days and an open work permit for outland sponsorships.

We are about to submit her conjugal sponsorship application but before we do there are some questions we could really use some advice on:

1. Does this new policy mean they are going to be more lenient about showing strong ties when applying for TRV when you have a sponsorship PR application in progress?

2. What do you think the chances are of us getting approved for the conjugal partner sponsorship and the TRV if we get an AOR? We have pretty strong evidence in our application of our struggle to get the marriage certificate and proof of our relationship (chat history and financial support as well as proof of visit and letters of support from family members and photos of us together in Kenya and at our engagement party with friends and family).

3. If we get an AOR for the conjugal sponsorship application then we apply for a TRV and she gets approved and comes to Canada. Do we still qualify for the conjugal sponsorship since we would now be able to get married in Canada? Is there a way to convert an outland conjugal sponsorship into an inland spousal sponsorship?

4. Any other general advice for what to do in our situation?

Thanks in advance for taking the time to help us figure this out!

For conjugal, you typically have to show that there is a legal barrier to marriage. While I understand your story, I"m not sure it will be convincing or sufficient, since foreigners - including Canadians - get married in Kenya. ANyway, you can try it, but it may be refused. I'd continue to consider other options to get married, such as in other countries.

But before you do so: you should also have your partner apply for TRV. The other criterion is typically that there should be an immigration barrier - meaning a TRV refusal. Do this BEFORE you apply under conjugal. In your case, I'd guess that it is pointless to apply conjugal before getting visa refusal. (And of course there is a chance it will be approved, you never know 100% beforehand - and if you do get approved, she comes to Canada and you get married here)

Next:
1) We do not know / I have not seen any confirmation that this new policy applies to conjugal apps. Because there is something additional missing from conjugal apps: proof of marriage or common law. But, after your app is accepted at AOR level, by all means try again.

2) I don't know.

3) As far as I know IRCC does not refuse/cancel conjugal apps as a matter of policy where the applicants are somehow able to get married after the fact - and no, no need to 'convert' the app, just provide info on the marriage. (Now they could refuse for regular reasons but I don't think they would do it because of no longer meeting the conjugal criteria b/c of getting married).

4) Repeat, apply for TRV and hope, and continue to look into other marriage options (eg in countries where your partner could travel to).

 

[Devin42]

For conjugal, you typically have to show that there is a legal barrier to marriage. While I understand your story, I"m not sure it will be convincing or sufficient, since foreigners - including Canadians - get married in Kenya. ANyway, you can try it, but it may be refused. I'd continue to consider other options to get married, such as in other countries.

But before you do so: you should also have your partner apply for TRV. The other criterion is typically that there should be an immigration barrier - meaning a TRV refusal. Do this BEFORE you apply under conjugal. In your case, I'd guess that it is pointless to apply conjugal before getting visa refusal. (And of course there is a chance it will be approved, you never know 100% beforehand - and if you do get approved, she comes to Canada and you get married here)

Next:
1) We do not know / I have not seen any confirmation that this new policy applies to conjugal apps. Because there is something additional missing from conjugal apps: proof of marriage or common law. But, after your app is accepted at AOR level, by all means try again.

2) I don't know.

3) As far as I know IRCC does not refuse/cancel conjugal apps as a matter of policy where the applicants are somehow able to get married after the fact - and no, no need to 'convert' the app, just provide info on the marriage. (Now they could refuse for regular reasons but I don't think they would do it because of no longer meeting the conjugal criteria b/c of getting married).

4) Repeat, apply for TRV and hope, and continue to look into other marriage options (eg in countries where your partner could travel to).

Thanks for your reply and advice. It's disappointing to think we need to apply for a TRV and wait over a year for it to most likely be rejected before we can apply for sponsorship. I don't know how other Canadians can get married in Kenya but I had all the correct paperwork and they didn't let me and the Canadian Consular at the High Commission wasn't able to do anything to help us.

I'f I'm reading this correctly the new policy for OWP should apply for conjugal sponsorship applicants also https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/corporate/mandate/policies-operational-instructions-agreements/public-policies/spousal-work-permit-exemption.html

This whole process has caused us so much stress and taken so much time and money already. Like everyone else here we just want to be reunited with our love. Canada and Quebec specifically makes it so difficult for people to come here. At this point I'm thinking I will just have to sell all my things, quit my job, and try to find some remote work I can do and a country that will let us be together because I love my partner and would rather be with them in any circumstances than live in Canada without them.

 

[armoured]

It's disappointing to think we need to apply for a TRV and wait over a year for it to most likely be rejected before we can apply for sponsorship.

Most TRV applications, approved or denied, take much less than a year. And so far, to be blunt, what you've done is wasted time over-thinking it - deciding in advance the TRV wouldn't get approved and therefore not even applying. It's a known aspect of the conjugal that there has to be an immigration barrier as well - now go out and establish that is the case. (And again - you might get approved). Silly to talk about how long it takes when you've not started.

I don't know how other Canadians can get married in Kenya but I had all the correct paperwork and they didn't let me and the Canadian Consular at the High Commission wasn't able to do anything to help us.

Sympathetic here, only expressing that it's an unknown because there isn't a formal legal barrier - it's a more clearcut case for other applicants for whom the barrier is in law. I can't speak to what the issues are in Kenya.

I'f I'm reading this correctly the new policy for OWP should apply for conjugal sponsorship applicants also https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/corporate/mandate/policies-operational-instructions-agreements/public-policies/spousal-work-permit-exemption.html

Good to know but I don't see that this clarifies whether the new TRV policy applies to conjugal cases - this citation is specifically about OWP.

But again - when the time comes (eg after AOR), by all means apply for the TRV - only one way to find out.

This whole process has caused us so much stress and taken so much time and money already. Like everyone else here we just want to be reunited with our love. Canada and Quebec specifically makes it so difficult for people to come here. At this point I'm thinking I will just have to sell all my things, quit my job, and try to find some remote work I can do and a country that will let us be together because I love my partner and would rather be with them in any circumstances than live in Canada without them.

Again my empathy for the separation and difficulties involved - but frankly you have not actually applied for anything yet. (Okay, you tried to get married, but there's no blame for Canada in that). Surely save the deep sighs until you've actually filled out the forms?

An acquaintance calls this pre-catastrophization - preparing mentally for the anticipated difficulties and catastrophes you've not yet encountered. Put on your paperwork boots and get to it.

And side note: 'this process taken so much time and money' - this was to travel and spend time with and attempt to marry the partner whom you'd met online and never, ever met in person before. Nope, not a waste of time and money, and if you'd not done, you'd not have been eligible for the conjugal either.

 

[Devin42]

Most TRV applications, approved or denied, take much less than a year. And so far, to be blunt, what you've done is wasted time over-thinking it - deciding in advance the TRV wouldn't get approved and therefore not even applying. It's a known aspect of the conjugal that there has to be an immigration barrier as well - now go out and establish that is the case. (And again - you might get approved). Silly to talk about how long it takes when you've not started.



Sympathetic here, only expressing that it's an unknown because there isn't a formal legal barrier - it's a more clearcut case for other applicants for whom the barrier is in law. I can't speak to what the issues are in Kenya.



Good to know but I don't see that this clarifies whether the new TRV policy applies to conjugal cases - this citation is specifically about OWP.

But again - when the time comes (eg after AOR), by all means apply for the TRV - only one way to find out.



Again my empathy for the separation and difficulties involved - but frankly you have not actually applied for anything yet. (Okay, you tried to get married, but there's no blame for Canada in that). Surely save the deep sighs until you've actually filled out the forms?

An acquaintance calls this pre-catastrophization - preparing mentally for the anticipated difficulties and catastrophes you've not yet encountered. Put on your paperwork boots and get to it.

And side note: 'this process taken so much time and money' - this was to travel and spend time with and attempt to marry the partner whom you'd met online and never, ever met in person before. Nope, not a waste of time and money, and if you'd not done, you'd not have been eligible for the conjugal either.

I appreciate your sympathies. I guess you could be right about the pre-catastrophization just based on what I read on this forum and elsewhere it seems hopeless she would be approved for the TRV. I wasn't saying it was a waste of time and money just venting some frustration at how difficult the situation is and wishing I had more resources to travel and spend more time with my partner.

I will probably consult with a lawyer at this point who can give some more guidance on what we should do and maybe apply for that TRV and still keep looking for a remote job so I can go and stay with her while we wait for everything to be processed.

Thanks again for your feedback and good luck to everyone else on here feeling the stress of this process. Hope your applications will all be approved soon!

 

[armoured]

I will probably consult with a lawyer at this point who can give some more guidance on what we should do and maybe apply for that TRV

To boil things down: apply for the TRV; keep looking for places to get married (eg where your spouse could travel to); may as well submit the conjugal. Make sure you have good relationship evidence (esp evidence of physical time together). Do let us know if the lawyer has any significant additional (or contradictory) advice.

A note that I do not know the answer to: I think the sponsor in a conjugal has to be residing in Canada - but I'm not certain - throughout the process. (100% that would be true if sponsor is a PR, I'm assumig you are a citizen). Good question for a lawyer.

Because I believe the approach from IRCC might or would be: if you are residing abroad, reside with your partner and become common law and then apply. Which - in your case, if you can swing it - would not be the worst approach either.

 

[armoured]

3) As far as I know IRCC does not refuse/cancel conjugal apps as a matter of policy where the applicants are somehow able to get married after the fact - and no, no need to 'convert' the app, just provide info on the marriage. (Now they could refuse for regular reasons but I don't think they would do it because of no longer meeting the conjugal criteria b/c of getting married).

Because I wrote this and subsequently came across a doc that's relevant:
https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/corporate/publications-manuals/operational-bulletins-manuals/permanent-residence/non-economic-classes/family-class-circumstance.html

Relevant part is:

Switching categories between spouses, common-law partners and conjugal partners

Conjugal partners, common-law partners and spouses are all specific categories with specific requirements. The onus is on the applicant to indicate what their relationship is to the sponsor, to specify the immigration category and to fulfill the requirements of the category under which they apply.

An officer is not required to automatically re-assess an application based on a different family class marital/conjugal relationship between the applicant and the sponsor than the one identified on the original application.

However, applicants are obliged to inform the Department of any change in their marital/conjugal status before the finalization of their case. For example, an applicant sponsored as a common-law partner (immigrant category FCC) or conjugal partner (FCE) may marry the sponsor. In such cases, a new undertaking is not necessary, but an officer must continue to be satisfied that the relationship meets legal requirements and is genuine.

If an applicant is refused as a common-law or conjugal partner and subsequently marries the sponsor, there is no provision for the original application to be revisited purely on that basis – if the sponsor and applicant wish to pursue an application, they must re-apply and pay new fees under the appropriate category.

I don't think any of this changes my interpretation: it does say that an officer is not required to re-assess, it seems to imply that the officer can do so. (Subject to confirming that the relationship meets legal requirements, etc).

The last part is also nothing new: if a conjugal or common-law application is refused and the couple get married subsequent to the refusal, they won't reconsider on that basis (i.e. you'll have to apply again).

[Worth noting that there have been appeals of both types that have been won, and no-one can say outright that the appeals body won't take into consideration the subsequent marriage eg as proof of relationship, but the appellant wouldn't (I think) have any claim to say that they must take it into consideration - and it certainly won't on its own overcome any refusal on objective merit, such as the couple not having actually resided together acc to the common law requirements. Or, as in a conjugal case, if they refuse on basis that eg you hadn't met or shown there was a legal barrier, getting married after isn't on its own grounds to win the appeal - the recourse is to apply again since now you're married.]

FWIW. Keep in mind this is IMHO.

 

[Devin42]

Just to add some closure to this thread. I ended up returning to Kenya and we were able to get married. I had to get the Quebec marriage search letter translated officially by the Ordre des traducteurs, terminologues et interprètes agréés du Québec (ottiaq.org) it was a long and difficult process but definitely worth it as now we are in the middle of the PR sponsorship process and my wife was also approved for a TRV after we applied with the AOR from the PR sponsorship.

Thanks to everyone on this forum for their support and good luck in your applications!