PR Card Renew before meeting Residency Mandate

[RaviSapra]

Apologies as I asked this question in a wrong sub-forum earlier so copy pasting here again.

This may sound like a silly question but still need your guidance on it as I am confused about my situation. Here goes my doubt followed by the question..

After getting my CoPR, I did soft landing in Canada in July 2018. So my PR card expiry is July 2023. However, I came to Canada for good in Aug 2021 so by July 2023, I still need 30 more days to fulfill my 730 days of mandate to renew my residency.

I asked a question about that in this forum earlier and seniors suggested that even if my PR card expires in July 2023, I can still reside in Canada after that and once I get my 730 days mandate fulfilled say by Aug 2023, I can reapply for my PR card. Kindly confirm if my understanding is correct here.

Now coming to my silly question - If I plan to travel outside Canada before that, can I apply for the renew of my PR card before completing my 730 days mandate or do I need to wait for 730 days to renew my card? Kindly provide your input on this as well.

Waiting for your responses and thank you as always!

 

[scylla]

Apologies as I asked this question in a wrong sub-forum earlier so copy pasting here again.

This may sound like a silly question but still need your guidance on it as I am confused about my situation. Here goes my doubt followed by the question..

After getting my CoPR, I did soft landing in Canada in July 2018. So my PR card expiry is July 2023. However, I came to Canada for good in Aug 2021 so by July 2023, I still need 30 more days to fulfill my 730 days of mandate to renew my residency.

I asked a question about that in this forum earlier and seniors suggested that even if my PR card expires in July 2023, I can still reside in Canada after that and once I get my 730 days mandate fulfilled say by Aug 2023, I can reapply for my PR card. Kindly confirm if my understanding is correct here.

Now coming to my silly question - If I plan to travel outside Canada before that, can I apply for the renew of my PR card before completing my 730 days mandate or do I need to wait for 730 days to renew my card? Kindly provide your input on this as well.

Waiting for your responses and thank you as always!

- Yes, you can reside in Canada after your PR card expires to get the 730 days.
- No, you cannot apply to renew your PR card before completing your 730 days. Right now you are out of compliance with the residency requirement since you were outside of Canada for more than three years. You must wait until you meet the 730 day residency requirement before you can submit the application to renew your PR card.

 

[RaviSapra]

. You must wait

- Yes, you can reside in Canada after your PR card expires to get the 730 days.
- No, you cannot apply to renew your PR card before completing your 730 days. Right now you are out of compliance with the residency requirement since you were outside of Canada for more than three years. You must wait until you meet the 730 day residency requirement before you can submit the application to renew your PR card.

Thank you for the response and clarifying my doubt. This helps a lot!

 

[armoured]

- No, you cannot apply to renew your PR card before completing your 730 days. Right now you are out of compliance with the residency requirement since you were outside of Canada for more than three years. You must wait until you meet the 730 day residency requirement before you can submit the application to renew your PR card.

I know this is meant in a specific (prescriptive) way, but I think precision is worthwhile here.

Yes, you can apply to renew your PR card before completing the 730 days. Of course you can. [Note very importantly: those who are IN COMPLIANCE with the residency obligation, that is, have been out of Canada less than 1095 days in either the last five years or since they became PRs (if less than five years), basically do not need to worry and can apply, or at any rate, discussion below does not apply to them.]

But: if you are out of compliance, it might be really, really stupid to do so.

You're unlikely to get your card any quicker - i.e. for the most part IRCC may well just slow-walk the application until the applicant is back in compliance.

Or: even worse, they might decide to look into your non-compliance and start the process of declaring you inadmissible and revoking (eventually) your PR card.

In other words: probably not worth applying for the PR card before one is back in compliance.

That said: there MAY be some very specific circumstances where applying to renew the PR card makes sense. Those are very specific cases. Even then, it's questionable whether it is a good idea to do so (compared to waiting until ... back in compliance. I'm not even going to try to get into when it will make sense to apply in advance (because not really the question at hand here).

 

[dpenabill]

. . . even if my PR card expires in July 2023, I can still reside in Canada after that and once I get my 730 days mandate fulfilled say by Aug 2023, I can reapply for my PR card.

This has been answered by @scylla but that is worth repeating with emphasis. A PR who is in Canada can remain in Canada without a valid PR card. The expiration of the PR card does NOT have any effect on the individual's PR status. So, as long as no inadmissibility proceedings have been commenced, the PR in RO breach can stay and WAIT until they have been IN Canada long enough to be in RO compliance before they apply for a new/renewed PR card.

And, while @scylla framed it in terms of what MUST be done, which @armoured quibbles some with, at the least most of the time (close to nearly all the time) it is best for the PR to indeed WAIT until they have been IN Canada long enough to be in RO compliance before they apply for a new/renewed PR card.

Leading to . . .

If I plan to travel outside Canada before that, can I apply for the renew of my PR card before completing my 730 days mandate or do I need to wait for 730 days to renew my card?

Even though @armoured offers a fair and valid clarification, a more precise explanation perhaps, for compelling practical reasons I agree with @scylla about WAITING to meet the RO BEFORE making a PR card application. It is, for example, the ONLY for sure SAFE approach.

Moreover, in the circumstances you describe, if you are referring to the possibility of traveling outside Canada before you have been here long enough to BOTH be in RO compliance, and to continue being in RO compliance notwithstanding additional absence from Canada, it would be an understatement to say, as @armoured frames it, "really, really stupid" to make an application before getting into RO compliance. In just the last week or so the forum has had at least two PRs reporting how this will typically, perhaps almost always, turn out: Inadmissibility proceedings.

Remember, a new PR card does NOT shield a PR from inadmissibility proceedings the next time they arrive at a PoE to enter Canada if the next time they return to Canada they have not been IN Canada at least 730 days within the preceding five years. There is very little to be gained by making a PR card application if the PR is leaving Canada and will still be in breach of the RO, or will be outside Canada for a period of time that means they are in breach of the RO.

There are some situations in which making the PR card application before being in RO compliance is not risky, and would otherwise make sense, as @armoured references, but this does not fit where the PR will be outside Canada and in breach of the RO.

 

[armoured]

And, while @scylla framed it in terms of what MUST be done, which @armoured quibbles some with, at the least most of the time (close to nearly all the time) it is best for the PR to indeed WAIT until they have been IN Canada long enough to be in RO compliance before they apply for a new/renewed PR card.

... it would be an understatement to say, as @armoured frames it, "really, really stupid" to make an application before getting into RO compliance. In just the last week or so the forum has had at least two PRs reporting how this will typically, perhaps almost always, turn out: Inadmissibility proceedings.

Yes, to be clear, I was 'quibbling' with @scylla to make a point: you certainly can apply early, out of compliance, etc - and most of the time it is a Bad Idea. Or in more simple terms, stupid.

I was doing it this way because we just often see repetition of the same story: someone heard someone else did it, and it worked - sort of, or unclear, or most often (although still rare) completely different cirucmstances, and they don't really get what @scylla is saying: don't do it.

Or, I don't know, maybe they think that they sort of deserve it and they really need to travel or ... well, I guess I'd just call it magical thinking. I don't know.

I'm hoping the "sure you can technically do it but it's stupid" formulation gets through a bit more, that's all.

Probably won't.

 

[armoured]

After getting my CoPR, I did soft landing in Canada in July 2018. So my PR card expiry is July 2023. However, I came to Canada for good in Aug 2021 so by July 2023, I still need 30 more days to fulfill my 730 days of mandate to renew my residency.

I asked a question about that in this forum earlier and seniors suggested that even if my PR card expires in July 2023, I can still reside in Canada after that and once I get my 730 days mandate fulfilled say by Aug 2023, I can reapply for my PR card. Kindly confirm if my understanding is correct here.

Now coming to my silly question - If I plan to travel outside Canada before that, can I apply for the renew of my PR card before completing my 730 days mandate or do I need to wait for 730 days to renew my card? Kindly provide your input on this as well.

There's been quite a lot of discussion in this thread (including by me) that didn't address the specific dates in your case, which matter a lot - and in your case are really just about on the edge.

You need to count the actual days and do the arithmetic yourself. Do this carefully, triple-check it, because it matters. In your case, quite a lot.

First: check your original landing date and the date of expiry on your PR card. This may seem obvious or instinctive to you but it is not - because the VAST majority of newly landed PRs get PR cards that have an expiry date five years after it is issued, not five years after the landing date, and it is issued some weeks after the landing (i.e. PR card expiry date is eg 30-90 days after the five year anniversary of the landing date). Double-check both these dates. Because I strongly suspect one of the dates you have in your head is incorrect. If either of the dates you referred to above is wrong, then the situation changes for you quite a bit (potentially anyway).

Next: you say you did a soft landing in July 2018. That puts the five year anniversary in July 2023. But we do not know if your soft landing was leave-the-next-day or a few weeks or what exactly. And you returned in August 2021. If you were out of Canada more than 1095 days in that period between day you departed Canada in 2018 and returned in 2021, you are out of compliance. And vice versa - if you had some visits to Canada in between, it could tip the calculation back to in compliance - even if you do not have 730 days in Canada yet. (In simple terms, you get 'credit' for the days remaining to your five year anniversary of landing).

And if you are in compliance - even if short of the 730 days - you CAN apply for PR card renewal here.

The arithmetic, the actual day count, really, really matters here. And the ACTUAL specific days of landing, and any arrivals and departures, and the date of expiry of your PR card matter A LOT.

It also is important to know if you have access to (eg visa to) the USA - because your travel may not be that big a deal at all if you just return via a land border AND your trip is reasonably short. So: can you return via the USA? How long is the planned travel?

There are some other details that could get very specific which I don't want to get into until some of the above eg dates and day counts are actually confirmed.

 

[CanadianDreamer@TO]

@RaviSapra Can you confirm on the points raised by armoured. I am in a similar situation as you but for me the PR card expiry date is 40 days later than the first five-year anniversary date.

 

[CanadianDreamer@TO]

@RaviSapra Please confirm.

 

[YVR123]

@RaviSapra Can you confirm on the points raised by armoured. I am in a similar situation as you but for me the PR card expiry date is 40 days later than the first five-year anniversary date.

What do you want to confirm?

RO is calcualted with your LANDING date (not when the PR card was issued). So your RO is calculated from the day you physically landed as a PR or getting eCOPR via virtual landing.

Then after the first 5 years (from landing), it will be looked at 5 years from the day that you interact with IRCC/CBSA. (e.g. crossing the border, applying for renewal, apply to sponsor someone)

Expiry date of the PR card is just the expiry date of the PR card.

 

[bricksonly]

What do you want to confirm?

RO is calcualted with your LANDING date (not when the PR card was issued). So your RO is calculated from the day you physically landed as a PR or getting eCOPR via virtual landing.

Then after the first 5 years (from landing), it will be looked at 5 years from the day that you interact with IRCC/CBSA. (e.g. crossing the border, applying for renewal, apply to sponsor someone)

Expiry date of the PR card is just the expiry date of the PR card.

RO counts from the day you submit your application and BACK to five years. It counts After your landing date, if your backwards five years is earlier than your landing date. It's a special calculation for this situation: if your first 5 years is not reached, the days between your application date to the 5 years date after your landing, is counted....

Example:
Mr. A landed on 1, Jul, 2018, and got his PR card 3 months later with expiry date 1, Oct, 2023. He spend 7 days in Canada in Jul for his soft landing.
Mr. A went back on 7, Jul 2021 and remained in Canada. He managed to have a overseas trip in Oct 2023.
Can he apply for a renewal of PR card in Jan, 2023?
YES, Mr. A can still apply for a renewal of PR card because he meet RO at the time he submit his application. With only...460 days...but it's true, for PR's first 5 years, the days to reach the end of first five years after landing date will automatically counts...
IF Mr. A went back on 10, Jul 2021, unfortunately, he should make his application as early as 10 Jul 2023, not Jan 2023.