Not meet residency obligation, should I renew PR card?

[ty05]

Hi,
My first post here, found this fantastic forum when googling my situation.

My family (me&wife&kid) went to China in summer 2019, we planned to stay there for 1-2 years. Several months later COVID outbroke, everything became difficult so we postponed returning to Canada. Our PR cards expired in 2021.

In Aug 2022 we applied for PRTD, at time of application we met RO (750 days in Canada), PRTD was issued quickly, valid till Feb 2023. In Jan 2023 we came back to Canada, now kids have returned to school, wife and me are seeking for a job.

I'm hesitate if I should apply to renew PR card now. Currently we have 550+ in-Canada days within past 5 years, so I assume if apply now I have to go H&C? I really don't know what supporting doc to provide - everyone know COVID restrictions and difficulties but honestly travel was still technically possible, just very inconvenient plus rocket high price, there seems no document said I must not return earlier.

Another option is renew after two years, till we meet RO. I assume this is the safer way? But no valid PR card make us feel really unsafe, in case we need to travel because of anything urgent we will be in trouble getting back.

I really appreciate any experiences/suggestions from you knowledgeable members, especially:
1. Is H&C the only way if we apply now? How long the process likely to take? How likely will we be challenged / rejected, what is the likely consequence if things go bad?
2. What kind of H&C supporting doc IRCC expect, has to be something "official" or I can write detailed description with maybe references to news reports?
3. If we apply after two years, we will meet RO at that time, should I expect everything go smoothly like other "normal" renew request?

 

[scylla]

Hi,
My first post here, found this fantastic forum when googling my situation.

My family (me&wife&kid) went to China in summer 2019, we planned to stay there for 1-2 years. Several months later COVID outbroke, everything became difficult so we postponed returning to Canada. Our PR cards expired in 2021.

In Aug 2022 we applied for PRTD, at time of application we met RO (750 days in Canada), PRTD was issued quickly, valid till Feb 2023. In Jan 2023 we came back to Canada, now kids have returned to school, wife and me are seeking for a job.

I'm hesitate if I should apply to renew PR card now. Currently we have 550+ in-Canada days within past 5 years, so I assume if apply now I have to go H&C? I really don't know what supporting doc to provide - everyone know COVID restrictions and difficulties but honestly travel was still technically possible, just very inconvenient plus rocket high price, there seems no document said I must not return earlier.

Another option is renew after two years, till we meet RO. I assume this is the safer way? But no valid PR card make us feel really unsafe, in case we need to travel because of anything urgent we will be in trouble getting back.

I really appreciate any experiences/suggestions from you knowledgeable members, especially:
1. Is H&C the only way if we apply now? How long the process likely to take? How likely will we be challenged / rejected, what is the likely consequence if things go bad?
2. What kind of H&C supporting doc IRCC expect, has to be something "official" or I can write detailed description with maybe references to news reports?
3. If we apply after two years, we will meet RO at that time, should I expect everything go smoothly like other "normal" renew request?

1. Yes, H&C would be the only way you can apply to renew your PR cards now. I don't think any of us can comment on your chances of approva. If it's based on COVD only, then I would say the chances are low of being successful. If the PR card is refused, that triggers the removal of your PR status.
2. Evidence why you were unable to return to Canada to meet the residency requirement. Based on other experiences here, COVID isn't being accepted as a reason since it was possible to travel to Canada for most of this time. In my opinion you would want to have a strong H&C reason other than COVID.
3. Yes, it would go smoothly. This is the much much better option.

 

[Ponga]

I second option #3 as being the best, BUT...it might mean remaining in Canada for the next 2 years, as leaving (even briefly) before having met the R.O., could open that Pandora's Box.

 

[armoured]

I second option #3 as being the best, BUT...it might mean remaining in Canada for the next 2 years, as leaving (even briefly) before having met the R.O., could open that Pandora's Box.

I'd add: the poster says "But no valid PR card make us feel really unsafe, in case we need to travel because of anything urgent we will be in trouble getting back."

If they NEED to travel back (for some urgent reason) for a short-ish trip, and for example other family members stay in Canada, the procedure is to apply for a prtd. If out of compliance at that point, on h&c basis.

And then the urgent reason and family members established in Canada, plus evidence that living and employed 8n Canada, would all be positive factors for that h&c consideration. Strong positives.

And all factors that do not apply now. The situation at some point in future would be different.

 

[ty05]

Thank you all for the inputs, very helpful - apparently I underestimated the difficulty of h&c.

I have some further questions:
1. Are you aware of any situation that mandate valid PR card (and not accept COPR) while IN Canada?
2. If I have to make urgent short travel before RO compliant, seems I have two ways getting back, PRTD with h&c and private vehicle from US. Is one way more likely to cause trouble or even open Pandora's box than another?

 

[Besram]

Thank you all for the inputs, very helpful - apparently I underestimated the difficulty of h&c.

I have some further questions:
1. Are you aware of any situation that mandate valid PR card (and not accept COPR) while IN Canada?
2. If I have to make urgent short travel before RO compliant, seems I have two ways getting back, PRTD with h&c and private vehicle from US. Is one way more likely to cause trouble or even open Pandora's box than another?

1) Depends on your situation and the province, but certain provinces require it for driver's licences, health cards etc. The federal government needs it when you apply for a SIN. Sometimes employers will ask for it too, even though your SIN should be enough for them.

2) Anecdotal evidence suggests officers at the borders are more lenient, whereas visa officers who will review PRTD applications tend to be stricter. Also consider a PRTD application with H&C can take quite a long time. Search this forum for threads if you want to learn more about it.

 

[YVR123]

In Aug 2022 we applied for PRTD, at time of application we met RO (750 days in Canada), PRTD was issued quickly, valid till Feb 2023. In Jan 2023 we came back to Canada, now kids have returned to school, wife and me are seeking for a job.

Since you have been back since Jan 2023, I assume that you've already got a valid SIN card (since you are looking for a job) and have health cards. And your kids have been admitted to schools.

In this case, I don't see that you will need a valid PR card except may be getting your driver's license renewal (some province asked for that when you are renewing your DL)

PR card normally is only needed to return to Canada (commerical flight, train, ferry and bus). As reply above, H&C PR card renewal can take a very long time. It may not be worth that effort and instead just wait for the 2 year and apply when you meet your RO again.

 

[armoured]

2. If I have to make urgent short travel before RO compliant, seems I have two ways getting back, PRTD with h&c and private vehicle from US. Is one way more likely to cause trouble or even open Pandora's box than another?

At border/port of entry (eg from USA), officers can, and in practice often do, practice lenience by waving the PR through i.e. without making a formal H&C evaluation or decision for a PR who is out of compliance. My understanding is that a PRTD application does require an H&C decision (a formal one).

Now this doesn't mean that crossing the border will necessarily turn out to be better for an individual case - you could get an officer in a bad mood, or more inclined to be strict, or whatever; call it the luck of the draw. But I think it's fair to say that the chances are better than in a PRTD application - because (hypothetically) the H&C case is equally strong in both cases, and in the cross-the-border situation, you at least have the chance - additional to the H&C case - of just getting an officer who decides to be lenient or hates the paperwork or whatever. (And the reality as stated above of being settled etc ie residing in Canada would still be seen as favourable - probably)

But this isn't formal probability math, and my hypothetical is one thing, and your life another.

 

[ty05]

Now it's clear to me that apply after meet RO is the rational way forward.
Thank you to all, you helped me avoid making costly bad decision.

 

[Migueltravellover]

I also wanted to add since this happened very recently - I heard of a case of somebody returning to Canada with their PR card after they had already been outside of the country for longer than the minimum required period of being here and they had a lot of trouble on the border (even though their PR card was still valid). Personally, I’d consider waiting things out or seeking out some legal advice or a consultant in this case just to be on the safe side? Good luck!

 

[Besram]

I also wanted to add since this happened very recently - I heard of a case of somebody returning to Canada with their PR card after they had already been outside of the country for longer than the minimum required period of being here and they had a lot of trouble on the border (even though their PR card was still valid). Personally, I’d consider waiting things out or seeking out some legal advice or a consultant in this case just to be on the safe side? Good luck!

Yes, it is possible to be out of compliance with the residency obligation, yet still possess a valid PR card. If people have been out of the country for a longer period, border officers can and often will question whether or not the person is in compliance with the residency obligation, and this can ultimately result in the PR status being revoked, even if the PR card was still valid.

The only added challenges with not having a valid PR card and being out of compliance are:

• Not being able to return to Canada via commercial transport (i.e. air travel)
• Travel via the land border without a valid PR card almost certainly will lead to questions about the residency obligation

But agreed with your conclusion - OP should wait until back in compliance, and apply for PR card then.

 

[castol]

#3 should be the best option. but isn't that OP can apply the renewal after staying in Canada for 180 days to meet the minimum RO requirement (instead of waiting for another 2 years)? currently OP has 550+ in-Canada days so another 180 days should make it work, no? just my 2 cents...

 

[Besram]

#3 should be the best option. but isn't that OP can apply the renewal after staying in Canada for 180 days to meet the minimum RO requirement (instead of waiting for another 2 years)? currently OP has 550+ in-Canada days so another 180 days should make it work, no? just my 2 cents...

Depends on when exactly OP's stay in Canada and absences ocurred. It's a rolling 5 year window that needs to be looked at, so eligible time in Canada may be expiring shortly, which may necessitate staying longer until OP is back in compliance.

To illustrate: In an extreme scenario, if someone stayed 730 days continuously, then left for 1,094 days, they would have to stay for a full 2 years because every day they add by staying gets taken away because the 5 year rolling window advances as well.

 

[castol]

Depends on when exactly OP's stay in Canada and absences ocurred. It's a rolling 5 year window that needs to be looked at, so eligible time in Canada may be expiring shortly, which may necessitate staying longer until OP is back in compliance.

To illustrate: In an extreme scenario, if someone stayed 730 days continuously, then left for 1,094 days, they would have to stay for a full 2 years because every day they add by staying gets taken away because the 5 year rolling window advances as well.

make sense, it depends on OP's rolling 5 yr window.

 

[meghashyam75]

I just wonder the immigration minister extended PGWP for those near expiry and those with expired permits. Although this is a different situation. I just wonder why a similar extension can't be encouraged to PR's who are in breach of RO but still want to come back, stay or contribute. Maybe registering this concern with a local MP may help?