Not meet residency obligation, should I renew PR card?
- Thread starter ty05
- Start date
Thanks very much for thr insightful post canuck. Just going on to my case specifically the best option would perhaps be to give it up.
Fascinating, this analysis of @meghashyam75 s life & future planning! One Step (one Day) at a Time; of course, not Discounting the value of Long Term Planning.
Somewhat similar is my situation, in that I moved to Canada as a PR in my mid 40s, am 59 now, will be 60 soon! And also the fact that I’m the sole family member to care for my mom, who’s 92 years old in India now. Which also explains the fact I got 3 PRTDs since 2014 & am likely approved for a 4th as of yesterdays email from IRCC. And also means that I’d be travelling back & forth every now & then to be able to be with her in her old age. So this is where I have to be careful about not violating RO counts, Going Forward. For the short term it’s manageable, since most of the time between. 2018 & 23, my stay in Canada was the last 2 years ie nearly all of 2022 & half of 2021 & won’t lose too many days of Residency at least till end 2024; I cut it really close in applying for renewal at 732 days RO btw, this mid Jan
And have not been working in any professional jobs all these years, since i became a PR in 2009, have worked as a Warehouse & or Factory Worker, that too, part time mostly thru Temp Agencies. So it’s easier to rush home at short notice to be with mom, if the need arises.
So then Why do I feel it so necessary to maintain my PR, if Finances or Career is not that important a consideration as @meghashyam75 situation seems to be? It’s more of the Social or Isolation aspects which might be relevant in my case, as a single, middle aged man who sometimes feels a stranger in his own country, viewed with suspicion or as someone of an “Alternative Lifestyle “. And this isolation would likely increase as one gets older.
On the other hand, in a place like, say , Vancouver BC, there would be more such people, single or otherwise, in a similar situation as me, whether of the opposite gender or of “Alternative Lifestyles “, & feeling perfectly comfortable and socially accepted… well, in most situations… So as long as mom is alive ( hope she lives 8 more years at least, to 100 years) … and till then, I see myself Dividing my time between India & Canada… but after that, it’s likely I’ll find myself more comfortable in Canada… in my old age!!
@Samrao100 you spoke my heart. Your case seems very similar to mine. Except it seems too difficult for me to keep this PR with staying 2 yrs straight without going back n forth. As people here have analysed and pointed out its not possible to have everything. I have only one query in mind whether to renounce and reapply, (seems extremely difficult) although I am highly qualified with Ph.D from Australia and various other degrees from UK and Ireland. Or just leave it as it is without taking any action.
This is a question only you can answer.
However if you are considering renouncing and reapplying, then IMO you would want to start by assessing your chances of being selected again for PR. Have you calculated your points under EE yet? You would want to make sure you have a good chance of being selected before renouncing. At least that would be my approach in your situation.
I guess part of the question is how much Canadian PR matters to you at this point or whether perhaps your life plans have changed.
Realistically getting PR at your age will be difficult. It is much more difficult to transition to a life in Canada successfully as you age. Being able to retire and be able to be financially self-sufficient is also another reason that immigrating after 40 is more difficult. Even if your qualifications are very impressive what it important in the end to Canada is whether you will be employed and for how many years you’ll be able to work before retirement. Canada hopes that most immigrant will move to Canada permanently and start working full-time. The fact that you are not compliant with RO and you want to be able to travel frequently if you return to Canada makes your situation very different than many trying to return to Canada having not met RO. The large majority of those trying to return to Canada are prepared to remain in Canada until they are back into compliance with their RO. In general at your age it is easier to try to keep your PR status versus trying to obtain new PR. The big issue is that to try to keep your PR you need to try and commit to staying in Canada. These are personal decisions. Assume you need to work to support yourself. Moving between countries makes that quite complicated and difficult. What is going on with your career and your work opportunities in your home country also need to be considered. Why do you want to be a PR?
Observations by others have largely covered, well-covered, the various factors and considerations involved in regards to your individual situation, and to a significant extent the situation confronted by others as well. For any PR who has difficulty complying with the PR Residency Obligation (the 2/5 years IN Canada requirement), each case is very much dependent on the particular facts and circumstances in that individual's own situation. Whether H&C relief is available, for a failure to comply with the RO, is definitely personal. What to do if a PR's circumstances make it prohibitively difficult to meet the RO and keep PR status, is likewise definitely personal. Relevant decisions are for the PR to make, themselves, personally. Others have addressed this. But, yes, for sure, this can mean having to make some tough decisions.
@armoured did a good job addressing the broader elements, as to the rules, and the policies and practices employed in applying the rules, doing so from the what-the-rules-should-be and how-to-effect-change perspective. That's not my forte.
Beyond that, I am tempted to offer some deeper esoteric exposition . . . the long read, an explanation of the undercurrent . . . wandering into jurisprudence and rather weedy, if not muddy zones. I will make an effort to avoid going too deep.
But it might help put things into better focus to clarify the difference between IRCC implementing a broad practice to extend temporary resident status, such as was done for Foreign Nationals (FNs, not Canadians) in Canada on a PGWP, and how the PR Residency Obligation rules work and what relief is available for PRs (Canadians with Permanent Resident status) who cannot comply with the RO.
PGWP and PR RO Distinguished:
Comparing PGWP and the PR RO is like comparing apples to ping pong balls, or a drivers' license to the speed limit.
An allegory: During the peak of the pandemic the registration for my car expired, but just as it was for scores and scores of others, it was automatically extended (for a rather long while). If, however, I had let my insurance lapse (I did not), that would have invalidated the vehicle's registration -- the covid based extension would not save me.
Comparing PGWP and the PR RO in particular: one is an immigration status, a form of Temporary Resident status; the other is a rule those with PR status need to follow.
IRCC did not change the rules when it extended PGWPs. It extended the duration of permits granting temporary resident status. IRCC has a lot of discretion applying immigration law and regulations in making decisions about how long FNs are given temporary resident status in Canada. Including PGWPs. A broadly implemented practice of extending the PGWP is well within the scope of IRCC's authority.
IRCC has NO discretion to modify or suspend the RO, which is specifically prescribed by law, by statute, and can only be changed by an Act of Parliament.
However, the effect of breaching the RO is not absolute. H&C relief is allowed in some cases. By its nature, whether H&C relief is appropriate depends very much on the INDIVIDUAL case, on the particular facts and circumstances in the specific PR's situation. There are many factors to consider, but the two biggest ones are the extent of the RO breach (just the numbers -- days in Canada versus days outside), and the reasons why the PR was abroad so long, and these tend to dominate the assessment of H&C factors unless the loss of PR status will have a negative impact on Canadian children (either PRs or citizens), which when involved can override other factors (caution, however, how this works in particular cases can be tricky).
The impact of Covid-19 and the pandemic is a factor. Of course. Obviously. It has been a significant reason underlying the reasons why some PRs remained abroad so long. I have cited and linked (and elsewhere discussed) various IAD decisions illustrating this. Including:
Messaoudi https://canlii.ca/t/jhv21
Quevedo https://canlii.ca/t/jtttm
Chowdhury, 2022 CanLII 123559 https://canlii.ca/t/jtqht
Gongsriwatanapon, 2023 CanLII 12680 https://canlii.ca/t/jvr2d
Brillens, 2022 CanLII 132251 https://canlii.ca/t/jvrsf
Firoozeh v Canada, 2022 CanLII 125109 https://canlii.ca/t/jtspk
Some forum participants have more or less suggested that Covid is a factor only to the extent there was an actual travel ban preventing the PR from returning to Canada. That flies in the face of and is contrary to how H&C factors are considered generally. Circumstances that fall way short of totally preventing travel to Canada are routinely given significant positive weight in the H&C assessment. And this is confirmed in Gongsriwatanapon, 2023 CanLII 12680 https://canlii.ca/t/jvr2d where the IAD stated:
Regardless of the lifting of travel bans at various stages throughout the pandemic the Appellant did not feel comfortable travelling back to Canada until his application [for a PR TD] in 2022. I accept this explanation and find that this more recent delay was reasonable.
Unfortunately for Charnchai Gongsriwatanapon, however, other factors in balance weighed against allowing relief and he lost PR status. In concluding there were not enough H&C factors in his favour, the IAD stated:This is mainly because the residency failure is a result of personal choices. The Appellant chose not to live in Canada but to reside and stay established in Thailand instead.
To illustrate how widely variable the outcome can be, and the extent to which the outcome depends on the whole situation in the individual PR's case, in the Gongsriwatanapon https://canlii.ca/t/jvr2d case he had spent 441 days in Canada, and more than half of the time he was outside Canada was during a period of time the IAD found his remaining abroad due to covid was "reasonable." Lost PR status. In contrast, in the Messaoudi https://canlii.ca/t/jhv21 case Mr. Messaoudi only spent 174 days in Canada, but was allowed to keep PR status, covid factoring into the positive decision in a couple ways but there were other positive factors which made the biggest difference.
Summary:
The RO itself is fixed, by law. Parliament is unlikely to change the law to make it more lenient. As has been noted, the RO is considered very generous as it is (albeit it warrants saying that comments describing it as "ridiculously" so, or as a "farce," are themselves ridiculous and perhaps betray anti-immigrant bigotry, unfortunately).
The manner in which the RO is applied and enforced, in contrast, allows for wide discretion in allowing relief in individual cases where there is good cause for allowing the PR to retain PR status. Broad discretion inherently results in some disparities in outcome, which is prone to incidents of injustice, even abuse. But on top of how lenient the RO itself is, it appears that any imbalance in how H&C relief is allowed tends to favour not disadvantage PRs. With some exceptions.
Meanwhile, as much as some of us might embrace the idealism of open borders (including those of us with a Marx/Lenin/Trotsky bend), per the governing law the grant of PR status in Canada is specifically to enable FNs to come to Canada to settle and live PERMANENTLY, so it is not likely the law will be changed to better accommodate those for whom their circumstances do not facilitate doing so, recognizing that under the current law a PR can remain outside Canada MOST of the time and keep their Canadian PR status.
In my opinion wait until you established yourselves like Taxes, Child Care, House, Jobs, Medical card etc. After an year apply for PR Renewal and everything will be fine.
Hi just want to know if a PR with residency breach can apply for Canadian study programs at universities and would the domestic tuition fees apply? I am looking at the scenario if one isn't able to land a job immediately if there are options of study and work.
As long as your PR card is still valid, then yes. Once your PR card is no longer valid, this can become more problematic.
Study programs are provincial if you got a DL you are fine. you may use your COPR in case to prove you as a PR I have a friend who came back to Canada after 4 years of his Initial Landing and got his PR renewed after a Month but for the safe side I suggest establish yourself like Job, Child Care, Home, Medical Card and pay Tax later apply for the renewal.
Once your PR card expire you are still a PR the only thing is upon entry you might be questioned or denied entry (which is extremely rare). However the obligation is to stay for at least 2 years (I believe within 5 years period).