IRCC Deputy Minister addresses OWP and AOR issuance for Outland spouses

[mingdong]

I'm happy to share an important record below, which is an email message sent by Deputy Minister to a stakeholder on January 11 2023.

There are three key things in her message:

1. IRCC is working on a policy to facilitate TRVs for spouses AND children abroad while they wait for the finalization of PR spousal sponsorship
2. IRCC acknowledged the gap in issuing AORs to outland applicants as opposed to inland applicants and is fixing this
3. IRCC acknowledged the issue with returned applications due to the system not recognizing properly the electronic vs handwritten signatures on form, and is fixing this


On Thu, Jan 12, 2023 at 10:57 AM Fox.Christiane <Christiane.Fox@cic.gc.ca> wrote:

Good evening Mr Burlotte,

I have decided to reply directly to your message, without copying the CBC, which you added in our last exchange.
Thank you for your response to my email sent on January 2nd. In our various exchanges, you highlight some important points that I wish to clarify. I have provide some explanation below but I would be open to scheduling some time with you for my team to discuss further.

First, You’ve indicated that that the Department has not begun the issuance of temporary resident status to spouses and children abroad while they wait for the processing of their permanent residency application. While this is accurate, I can confirm that this is something the Department is actively working on and updates will be provided to the public as soon as we are in a position to do so. My previous correspondence was making reference to the fact that various measures were developed in light of the Minister’s mandate letter.

With regards to the statement about systemic discrimination depending on the PA’s race, nationality or the country where principal applicant resides, I would start by clarifying that normally, applications are processed on a first-in first-out basis. Every application is handled on a case-by-case basis. IRCC moves applications around our global network to ensure they are processed as efficiently as possible, which means applications may not be processed at or decided upon by decision makers at the office closest to where a client lives, or where an application is submitted. It is also important to note that during the pandemic, IRCC adjusted processing activities due to the various boarder restrictions, hence focusing on the in-Canada population

With regards to the table you presented showing the difference in processing times for inland and outland cases, the Department has commitment to sending AoRs (Acknowledgement of Reception) for both streams within 10 weeks of receipt. While it is true that inland applicants currently receive their Acknowledgement of Reception quicker than applicants from outside Canada, both FC Inland and outland applications fall within the 10-week Acknowledgement of Reception (AoR) commitment. Efforts are being made to more closely align the time it takes for AoRs to be sent for these lines of businesses.

Thank you for raising the issues around applications being rejected by the portal. I have asked the teams to look into the claims that applications are being rejected for incorrect signatures and will ensure this is addressed.

Lastly, you mentioned the F12 trick that enables clients to see information about the progress of IRCC applications. I can confirm that this previous “IT bug” was fixed in the Spring of 2022. Clients are no longer able to see such information - Thank you for flagging this to us.

If interested, my office will contact you in order to setup a meeting to discuss these issues further and in more detail.


Christiane Fox

Deputy Minister, Office of the Deputy Minister
Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship Canada / Government of Canada
Christiane.Fox@cic.gc.ca

Sous-ministre, Bureau du sous-ministre
Immigration, Réfugiés et Citoyenneté Canada / Gouvernement du Canada
Christiane.Fox@cic.gc.ca

 

[Naturgrl]

I'm happy to share an important record below, which is an email message sent by Deputy Minister to a stakeholder on January 11 2023.

There are three key things in her message:

1. IRCC is working on a policy to facilitate TRVs for spouses AND children abroad while they wait for the finalization of PR spousal sponsorship
2. IRCC acknowledged the gap in issuing AORs to outland applicants as opposed to inland applicants and is fixing this
3. IRCC acknowledged the issue with returned applications due to the system not recognizing properly the electronic vs handwritten signatures on form, and is fixing this


On Thu, Jan 12, 2023 at 10:57 AM Fox.Christiane <Christiane.Fox@cic.gc.ca> wrote:

You don’t work for the Canadian government do you or know how wording is so important.
1. I see no mention of a policy that IRCC is working on. It just says “actively working on.” Doesn’t mean anything will change.
2. They say that that AORs for both streams are within 10 week commitment.
3. Never say fixed. Just say will be addressed.

 

[Copingwithlife]

You don’t work for the Canadian government do you or know how wording is so important.
1. I see no mention of a policy that IRCC is working on. It just says “actively working on.” Doesn’t mean anything will change.
2. They say that that AORs for both streams are within 10 week commitment.
3. Never say fixed. Just say will be addressed.

This ⬆

If a Government announcement isn’t PRECISE take it with a grain of salt.
Usually not always though , the Government when making announcements gives it lots of media attention. Photographs etc

it’s all bells & whistles folks

 

[comarxx]

Thank you for posting that. I dare say none of it is true. Just politician's lies. More than a year ago, Trudeau was said to have issued a "mandate" as to item #1 - TRVs. Nothing has changed and not going to change this time either.

Hey there Kaibigan! How are you? Already submitted your app?

 

[mingdong]

	​
To: "Roumeliotis.Eugenia" <Eugenia.Roumeliotis@cic.gc.ca> Cc: Barbara Jo Caruso <Caruso@cilf.ca>, "Fox.Christiane" <Christiane.Fox@cic.gc.ca>, "Minister / Ministre (IRCC)" <IRCC.Minister-Ministre.IRCC@cic.gc.ca>, "sean.fraser@parl.gc.ca" <sean.fraser@parl.gc.ca>, "Radchenklga" <Olga.Radchenko@cic.gc.ca>, "Jones.Murray (he, him | il, lui)" <Murray.Jones@cic.gc.ca>, "Nicholson.Kyle" <Kyle.Nicholson@cic.gc.ca>, delhi@international.gc.ca, spore@international.gc.ca, infocentre-manila@international.gc.ca, steven.meurrens@larlee.com, mlundy@globeandmail.com
Dear Roumeliotis Thank you for your email. I have not received a response from the unit responsible for outland spousal app intake. While waiting for that to somehow happen one day, I would like to bring up two concerns whilst, I understand, that your Department may be looking at options to facilitate temporary entry into Canada for spouses/partners with outland PR in process. The two issues include interpretation and respect for the Minister's delivery update by your overseas staff and offices, and the second issue is the continued delay in AOR and inconsistency in processing outland apps, that I haven't seen improvement. Please spare some time to review the below. The first issue is the interpretation of dual intent by different officers. The chart below shows a remarkable high refusal rate for TRV for this group - at below 50%. Most cases were refused on the basis that the officers did not believe the persons will leave Canada by the end of authorized stay because they are in a marital relationship with Canadians. Despite the program delivery was updated in Oct 2020, looking at the data in 2021, officers continued to have serious bias against this group of applicants. I would blame the Minister's Office for not taking this issue seriously - making the update only as a program delivery update on Dual Intent, and leaving the bias an open option for your officers, as well as a communication issue to make sure staff respect and comply. Let's go back to the very basic logic of humanity: what's wrong when people in love want to spend time and support each other? The Canadian visa system long ago, used to have a special visa category for fiance but that had been scrapped - then in absence of such an option, the system should promote and make family reunification for your own citizens a smooth and easy process, not the other way around. The USA immigration system has a temporary visa stream called K1, which allows foreign nationals to come into the USA and get married with their partner within 3 months of arrival. Fact check: post-covid, USA, Australia and UK were all pretty quick in picking up the processing capacity for immigration and only Canada still struggles with backlog and has a system designed to discriminate spouses/partners of your fellow Canadians/PRs - whether you want to accept or deny this statement, the numbers and facts are there! This is a big national shame. Canadians get freak out when they choose to love and marry someone from outside Canada because they will face a process that is biased, lengthy, unpredictable and inconsistent across similar streams and visa offices. What can you do to address these? We talk about annual target of 500k new PRs every year now, we talk about issuing Work Permits to a various streams of spouses/partners of temporary residents yet Canada continues to make it an endless nightmare for spouses/partners of Canadians even their only wish could be just a visitor visa to be able to spend time in Canada. Please have a proper analysis and communication to your visa offices and stop this practice because not only is it unfair, and logically wrong, it is also inhumane. The second issue is still the challenges for outland spouses intake. Your Department said in the previous emails that it is taking 10 weeks for this stream to receive AOR. The time of 10 weeks itself I think needs a lot of improvement, let alone inconsistency. We are talking about 10 weeks of the file unopened and just sit there in your portal untouched. TRV applications are auto-screened by the portal, get AOR issuance in a matter of hours. Inland spousal apps get AOR within days. Then why can't the process be improved for outland spousal apps? You link this to the issue of a high TRV rejection rate and you will see why families and Canadians go crazy about your system and why media keeps reporting on what many refer to as systemic discrimination. I personally dont think it has anything to do with discrimination, however, this is happening because it appears nobody at the Ministerial level has cared and understood the problems enough - or even if they did, no concrete and sincere actions were done to fix, leaving Canadians and families continue to suffer hopelessly. Here, again, is my ask, on behalf of Canadians who are waiting to be united with their spouses/partners/dependent children overseas: 1. Please publicize a visa policy to facilitate TRV entry for outland spouses immediately. Why immediately? Because this has been a controversial issue for years, raised by so many stakeholders and at the IRCC, acknowledged by the Department, thrown in the Minister's mandate letter since December 2021. After over two years of no action, it should be done out of immediate respect for Canadians and affected families. In parallel, communicate and monitor oversea visa offices on rejections. Globe and Mail recently revealed the Department's plan to waive eligibility for half a million visitor visa caseload in an effort to clear TRV backlog - no reasons if you can do such an ambitious plan for regular visitors, many of whom have no connections to Canada, but can't afford the same to family members of Canadian citizens. 2. Please continue to work with the outland spousal intake unit at CPC-Sydney. Sorry to be frank but please don't get offended if not true - your officers, many of whom are new hires with junior professional working experience and I imagine quite a few are working remotely, are not doing a very good job in screening intake for outland spousal apps. The AOR/bio letters for outland must continue to improve significantly to the level that is similar to inland, that is within a week or two of online submission, not 10 weeks plus. The unit is still working on files submitted early November and it has exceeded 10 weeks standard - please speak to the managers of the unit for real reports and not oral statements. Lastly, I appreciate your well intended communications. The issues I share with you have been real and seriously damage your department's reputation and I hope you continue to work amongst yourselves at the Minister Office to fix them. Best BB

 

[canuck78]

	​
To: "Roumeliotis.Eugenia" <Eugenia.Roumeliotis@cic.gc.ca> Cc: Barbara Jo Caruso <Caruso@cilf.ca>, "Fox.Christiane" <Christiane.Fox@cic.gc.ca>, "Minister / Ministre (IRCC)" <IRCC.Minister-Ministre.IRCC@cic.gc.ca>, "sean.fraser@parl.gc.ca" <sean.fraser@parl.gc.ca>, "Radchenklga" <Olga.Radchenko@cic.gc.ca>, "Jones.Murray (he, him | il, lui)" <Murray.Jones@cic.gc.ca>, "Nicholson.Kyle" <Kyle.Nicholson@cic.gc.ca>, delhi@international.gc.ca, spore@international.gc.ca, infocentre-manila@international.gc.ca, steven.meurrens@larlee.com, mlundy@globeandmail.com
Dear Roumeliotis Thank you for your email. I have not received a response from the unit responsible for outland spousal app intake. While waiting for that to somehow happen one day, I would like to bring up two concerns whilst, I understand, that your Department may be looking at options to facilitate temporary entry into Canada for spouses/partners with outland PR in process. The two issues include interpretation and respect for the Minister's delivery update by your overseas staff and offices, and the second issue is the continued delay in AOR and inconsistency in processing outland apps, that I haven't seen improvement. Please spare some time to review the below. The first issue is the interpretation of dual intent by different officers. The chart below shows a remarkable high refusal rate for TRV for this group - at below 50%. Most cases were refused on the basis that the officers did not believe the persons will leave Canada by the end of authorized stay because they are in a marital relationship with Canadians. Despite the program delivery was updated in Oct 2020, looking at the data in 2021, officers continued to have serious bias against this group of applicants. I would blame the Minister's Office for not taking this issue seriously - making the update only as a program delivery update on Dual Intent, and leaving the bias an open option for your officers, as well as a communication issue to make sure staff respect and comply. Let's go back to the very basic logic of humanity: what's wrong when people in love want to spend time and support each other? The Canadian visa system long ago, used to have a special visa category for fiance but that had been scrapped - then in absence of such an option, the system should promote and make family reunification for your own citizens a smooth and easy process, not the other way around. The USA immigration system has a temporary visa stream called K1, which allows foreign nationals to come into the USA and get married with their partner within 3 months of arrival. Fact check: post-covid, USA, Australia and UK were all pretty quick in picking up the processing capacity for immigration and only Canada still struggles with backlog and has a system designed to discriminate spouses/partners of your fellow Canadians/PRs - whether you want to accept or deny this statement, the numbers and facts are there! This is a big national shame. Canadians get freak out when they choose to love and marry someone from outside Canada because they will face a process that is biased, lengthy, unpredictable and inconsistent across similar streams and visa offices. What can you do to address these? We talk about annual target of 500k new PRs every year now, we talk about issuing Work Permits to a various streams of spouses/partners of temporary residents yet Canada continues to make it an endless nightmare for spouses/partners of Canadians even their only wish could be just a visitor visa to be able to spend time in Canada. Please have a proper analysis and communication to your visa offices and stop this practice because not only is it unfair, and logically wrong, it is also inhumane. The second issue is still the challenges for outland spouses intake. Your Department said in the previous emails that it is taking 10 weeks for this stream to receive AOR. The time of 10 weeks itself I think needs a lot of improvement, let alone inconsistency. We are talking about 10 weeks of the file unopened and just sit there in your portal untouched. TRV applications are auto-screened by the portal, get AOR issuance in a matter of hours. Inland spousal apps get AOR within days. Then why can't the process be improved for outland spousal apps? You link this to the issue of a high TRV rejection rate and you will see why families and Canadians go crazy about your system and why media keeps reporting on what many refer to as systemic discrimination. I personally dont think it has anything to do with discrimination, however, this is happening because it appears nobody at the Ministerial level has cared and understood the problems enough - or even if they did, no concrete and sincere actions were done to fix, leaving Canadians and families continue to suffer hopelessly. Here, again, is my ask, on behalf of Canadians who are waiting to be united with their spouses/partners/dependent children overseas: 1. Please publicize a visa policy to facilitate TRV entry for outland spouses immediately. Why immediately? Because this has been a controversial issue for years, raised by so many stakeholders and at the IRCC, acknowledged by the Department, thrown in the Minister's mandate letter since December 2021. After over two years of no action, it should be done out of immediate respect for Canadians and affected families. In parallel, communicate and monitor oversea visa offices on rejections. Globe and Mail recently revealed the Department's plan to waive eligibility for half a million visitor visa caseload in an effort to clear TRV backlog - no reasons if you can do such an ambitious plan for regular visitors, many of whom have no connections to Canada, but can't afford the same to family members of Canadian citizens. 2. Please continue to work with the outland spousal intake unit at CPC-Sydney. Sorry to be frank but please don't get offended if not true - your officers, many of whom are new hires with junior professional working experience and I imagine quite a few are working remotely, are not doing a very good job in screening intake for outland spousal apps. The AOR/bio letters for outland must continue to improve significantly to the level that is similar to inland, that is within a week or two of online submission, not 10 weeks plus. The unit is still working on files submitted early November and it has exceeded 10 weeks standard - please speak to the managers of the unit for real reports and not oral statements. Lastly, I appreciate your well intended communications. The issues I share with you have been real and seriously damage your department's reputation and I hope you continue to work amongst yourselves at the Minister Office to fix them. Best BB

The approval rate for spouses being sponsored outland is significantly better than it was precovid. Precovid it was nearly impossible. It is very easy to deport people from the US and it is not in Canada which makes the situation in both countries very different. The other issue is that many getting married abroad are in arranged marriages or marriages with minimal dating history which makes it hard to differentiate real marriages and marriages of convenience. If all spouses being sponsored outland were able to get a TRV or OWP there would be no screening process before entering Canada and opens up the system to huge problems with marriages of conveniences and immigration fraud in general. The requirement to be married for 2 years to keep PR has been eliminated so a method to identify immigration fraud and not allow these people to remain in Canada will likely need to be in place before thos is possible. There is no obvious answer about how this will be possible and not extremely expensive for Canada. There is also the issue that many spouses do not qualify for healthcare until they are PRs or they have an OWP and have a job that lasts over 6 months. That could mean a large volume of uninsured people coming to Canada which will especially be an issue for pregnancies. This isn’t as simple as it appears.


Australia still has an immigration backlog. So does the UK. I assume many other countries do.

 

[mingdong]

The approval rate for spouses being sponsored outland is significantly better than it was precovid. Precovid it was nearly impossible. It is very easy to deport people from the US and it is not in Canada which makes the situation in both countries very different. The other issue is that many getting married abroad are in arranged marriages or marriages with minimal dating history which makes it hard to differentiate real marriages and marriages of convenience. If all spouses being sponsored outland were able to get a TRV or OWP there would be no screening process before entering Canada and opens up the system to huge problems with marriages of conveniences and immigration fraud in general. The requirement to be married for 2 years to keep PR has been eliminated so a method to identify immigration fraud and not allow these people to remain in Canada will likely need to be in place before thos is possible. There is no obvious answer about how this will be possible and not extremely expensive for Canada. There is also the issue that many spouses do not qualify for healthcare until they are PRs or they have an OWP and have a job that lasts over 6 months. That could mean a large volume of uninsured people coming to Canada which will especially be an issue for pregnancies. This isn’t as simple as it appears.


Australia still has an immigration backlog. So does the UK. I assume many other countries do.

I think you have a very good knowledge of the Canadian immigration system and/or you have worked with it. Thanks for your great insights!

I find your thought to be somewhat similar to the mentality of the Canadian immigration system. The mentality that is set up on fear and protectionism that is no longer relevant in the 21st century and the current context of Canada in the world map. Canada is not the USA. USA has a strict visa processing because they have a more sensitive security concerns, and they are a country 10 times bigger than Canadian population so it makes sense for them to do some population control with their immigration policy. Canada in this century is a multicultural and open society and those are the way for it to advance further, given the vast majority of land is covered under the ice at least 6 months in a year and a rapidly aging population. Every country needs to have its own immigration law and we are not here to argue whether or not Canada should maintain its control over immigration. However, looking at the real data, we see the majority of spousal sponsorship gets approved, at 95% plus. So to net the 5% of bad weeds, the system has been set up to keep families apart as long as the time it needs to investigate, and in many instance IRCC doesn't even know how much time is sufficient to end the process and close the cases fairly.

As for temporary entries, Canada, with little to no population issue and a low crime rate, I think should be set up the model of Singapore or Dubai, one that keeps borders open for tourism and visits but extremely well organized when it comes to acquiring permanent residency, citizenship and family reunification. Canada maintains some of very weirdest logics in screening and letting people in for tourism and family visits.

Speaking of the UK and Australia, I have worked in both systems - as their immigration officer, I know how these systems run and I understand the current situation. They struggled a little bit at first when the world gets out of the covid-19 crisis together but no, they currently do not have deal with the same level and nature of backlog as bad as Canada.

 

[Flyingfast]

I'm happy to share an important record below, which is an email message sent by Deputy Minister to a stakeholder on January 11 2023.

There are three key things in her message:

1. IRCC is working on a policy to facilitate TRVs for spouses AND children abroad while they wait for the finalization of PR spousal sponsorship
2. IRCC acknowledged the gap in issuing AORs to outland applicants as opposed to inland applicants and is fixing this
3. IRCC acknowledged the issue with returned applications due to the system not recognizing properly the electronic vs handwritten signatures on form, and is fixing this


On Thu, Jan 12, 2023 at 10:57 AM Fox.Christiane <Christiane.Fox@cic.gc.ca> wrote:

We have the most corrupt government in Canadian history in office. Don't believe anything a Liberal MP dribbles!

 

[puzokumar]

I'm happy to share an important record below, which is an email message sent by Deputy Minister to a stakeholder on January 11 2023.

There are three key things in her message:

1. IRCC is working on a policy to facilitate TRVs for spouses AND children abroad while they wait for the finalization of PR spousal sponsorship
2. IRCC acknowledged the gap in issuing AORs to outland applicants as opposed to inland applicants and is fixing this
3. IRCC acknowledged the issue with returned applications due to the system not recognizing properly the electronic vs handwritten signatures on form, and is fixing this


On Thu, Jan 12, 2023 at 10:57 AM Fox.Christiane <Christiane.Fox@cic.gc.ca> wrote:

All this sounds very promising, I just hope they at-least allow us to apply for OWP!. My wife's visitor visa was recently rejected for a very generic reason.

Also. - do you think reporting the bug to see the file application stats (F12) was a good thing, this way we could see who is doing what. Trying to understand your point of view on this.

 

[canuck78]

I think you have a very good knowledge of the Canadian immigration system and/or you have worked with it. Thanks for your great insights!

I find your thought to be somewhat similar to the mentality of the Canadian immigration system. The mentality that is set up on fear and protectionism that is no longer relevant in the 21st century and the current context of Canada in the world map. Canada is not the USA. USA has a strict visa processing because they have a more sensitive security concerns, and they are a country 10 times bigger than Canadian population so it makes sense for them to do some population control with their immigration policy. Canada in this century is a multicultural and open society and those are the way for it to advance further, given the vast majority of land is covered under the ice at least 6 months in a year and a rapidly aging population. Every country needs to have its own immigration law and we are not here to argue whether or not Canada should maintain its control over immigration. However, looking at the real data, we see the majority of spousal sponsorship gets approved, at 95% plus. So to net the 5% of bad weeds, the system has been set up to keep families apart as long as the time it needs to investigate, and in many instance IRCC doesn't even know how much time is sufficient to end the process and close the cases fairly.

As for temporary entries, Canada, with little to no population issue and a low crime rate, I think should be set up the model of Singapore or Dubai, one that keeps borders open for tourism and visits but extremely well organized when it comes to acquiring permanent residency, citizenship and family reunification. Canada maintains some of very weirdest logics in screening and letting people in for tourism and family visits.

Speaking of the UK and Australia, I have worked in both systems - as their immigration officer, I know how these systems run and I understand the current situation. They struggled a little bit at first when the world gets out of the covid-19 crisis together but no, they currently do not have deal with the same level and nature of backlog as bad as Canada.

The program in place limit a lot of the immigration fraud. If people know that it will take over a year and require an interview that limits many who are trying to file for marriage of convenience or looking for ways to immigrate to Canada if they don’t qualify themselves. Not allowing spouses (or fiancé(e)s) into Canada right after marriage has nothing to do with population growth or general immigration. US also has an ageing population and needs immigration. It has to do with ensuring that people are in a true relationship before being able to enter Canada because once in Canada it is very hard and expensive to deport someone. Canada wants those who qualify to immigrate not people who commit immigration fraud. The US can essentially pick someone up and put them on a plane and return them to their home country in most cases or keep them in immigration detention which is much harder to do in Canada. You want to compare immigration to Canada to the UAE and Singapore? In the UAE, for example, you aren’t going to get citizenship or being able to stay forever unless you have a male family member that is working in the UAE. You will still never get citizenship. If you lose your job you will be forced by the government to leave. If you aren’t a professional you aren’t able to have your family and children come live with you in the UAE. Very different situation than Canada. The government can essentially do anything that they want. They want to end your visa, they will end your visa. If a country can easily force you to leave they tend to be more lax in letting certain types of people in or certain ethnicities in. In the UAE they certainly limit who can enter. If you come from a Western country or have a lot of funds from what what the UAE considers a “less prestigious” or wealthy country you can probably enter but the UAE is quite picky in terms of who they let in and they can essentially do whatever they like as border and immigration agents. When a passenger had a baby that they abandoned at the airport they did forced pelvic exams on all the women on certain flights to identify who the mother was.

 

[InfoSeeker12]

The program in place limit a lot of the immigration fraud. If people know that it will take over a year and require an interview that limits many who are trying to file for marriage of convenience or looking for ways to immigrate to Canada if they don’t qualify themselves. Not allowing spouses (or fiancé(e)s) into Canada right after marriage has nothing to do with population growth or general immigration. US also has an ageing population and needs immigration. It has to do with ensuring that people are in a true relationship before being able to enter Canada because once in Canada it is very hard and expensive to deport someone. Canada wants those who qualify to immigrate not people who commit immigration fraud. The US can essentially pick someone up and put them on a plane and return them to their home country in most cases or keep them in immigration detention which is much harder to do in Canada. You want to compare immigration to Canada to the UAE and Singapore? In the UAE, for example, you aren’t going to get citizenship or being able to stay forever unless you have a male family member that is working in the UAE. You will still never get citizenship. If you lose your job you will be forced by the government to leave. If you aren’t a professional you aren’t able to have your family and children come live with you in the UAE. Very different situation than Canada. The government can essentially do anything that they want. They want to end your visa, they will end your visa. If a country can easily force you to leave they tend to be more lax in letting certain types of people in or certain ethnicities in. In the UAE they certainly limit who can enter. If you come from a Western country or have a lot of funds from what what the UAE considers a “less prestigious” or wealthy country you can probably enter but the UAE is quite picky in terms of who they let in and they can essentially do whatever they like as border and immigration agents. When a passenger had a baby that they abandoned at the airport they did forced pelvic exams on all the women on certain flights to identify who the mother was.

Sorry Canuck - I guess you were over-run with your emotions against Dubai...or something...That did NOT happen in Dubai.

That happened in Qatar when a mother concealed a baby in a plastic bag and buried the poor child under garbage. Of course - this crime against a Child will not be condemned, but Qatar's effort to find the CRIMINAL is condemned by you! How fair is that?

They searched 10 flights and Australia was one of them. And so Australians and westerners (British expats in Qatar) were pretty raw about how dare Qatar search Western Women - for committing a crime. Like there is no crime committed by Western females. Regardless of who was the actual criminal and their ethnicity. If the authorities thought she might be on Australian or anyother flight - they did right trying to catch the criminal.

https://apnews.com/article/qatar-australia-united-arab-emirates-dubai-sydney-11def21cbad879ff8bd2e55772f7ff88
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-55049678

 

[YVR123]

Sorry Canuck - I guess you were over-run with your emotions against Dubai...or something...That did NOT happen in Dubai.

That happened in Qatar when a mother concealed a baby in a plastic bag and buried the poor child under garbage. Of course - this crime against a Child will not be condemned, but Qatar's effort to find the CRIMINAL is condemned by you! How fair is that?

They searched 10 flights and Australia was one of them. And so Australians and westerners (British expats in Qatar) were pretty raw about how dare Qatar search Western Women - for committing a crime. Like there is no crime committed by Western females. Regardless of who was the actual criminal and their ethnicity. If the authorities thought she might be on Australian or anyother flight - they did right trying to catch the criminal.

https://apnews.com/article/qatar-australia-united-arab-emirates-dubai-sydney-11def21cbad879ff8bd2e55772f7ff88
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-55049678

I am very shock to learn about this totally un-acceptable act. The excuse of "catching" crimals.
There are so many things that can be done other than a pelvic exam!!! Did they exclude people who looked too old to give brith?!
Can't they do something less offensive than that? Finger prints? dna swaps? I am still in shock.
Can't they keep those people at the airport until more "normal" investigation is done before they come down to the actual suspects before going this far.
Missing the flight/travel is NOT as a big deal as being forced to do pevic exam.

 

[canuck78]

Sorry Canuck - I guess you were over-run with your emotions against Dubai...or something...That did NOT happen in Dubai.

That happened in Qatar when a mother concealed a baby in a plastic bag and buried the poor child under garbage. Of course - this crime against a Child will not be condemned, but Qatar's effort to find the CRIMINAL is condemned by you! How fair is that?

They searched 10 flights and Australia was one of them. And so Australians and westerners (British expats in Qatar) were pretty raw about how dare Qatar search Western Women - for committing a crime. Like there is no crime committed by Western females. Regardless of who was the actual criminal and their ethnicity. If the authorities thought she might be on Australian or anyother flight - they did right trying to catch the criminal.

https://apnews.com/article/qatar-australia-united-arab-emirates-dubai-sydney-11def21cbad879ff8bd2e55772f7ff88
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-55049678

I stand corrected it was Qatar. Could have easily happened in the UAE. Immigration is solely at the discretion of the government with no recourse. They don’t want you there, they make you leave. Very different to Canada.

We have no idea what happened. Was this woman pregnant by rape, out of wedlock and would have been killed by her family, had no idea that she was pregnant and went into shock, etc.

There is no excuse to ever do a forced pelvic exam on anyone ever.

 

[InfoSeeker12]

I stand corrected it was Qatar. Could have easily happened in the UAE. Immigration is solely at the discretion of the government with no recourse. They don’t want you there, they make you leave. Very different to Canada.

We have no idea what happened. Was this woman pregnant by rape, out of wedlock and would have been killed by her family, had no idea that she was pregnant and went into shock, etc.

There is no excuse to ever do a forced pelvic exam on anyone ever.

Stand corrected? Really? Discussing immigration policies of Singapore and UAE and not knowing the difference between UAE (Dubai) and Qatar. Hello? Aiky waky....They are two different countries.

Yaicks...this does prove that people should take information from this forum (& so called VIP Members) with a grain of salt. If someone can't be humble enough to accept their lack of knowledge, and also quickly try to shove it under other information like no one noticed it....i wonder how credible they are in sharing their knowledge on Canadian immigration. Perhaps their information is shaded too.

There is no excuse for IGNORANCE.

 

[Ponga]

Stand corrected? Really? Discussing immigration policies of Singapore and UAE and not knowing the difference between UAE (Dubai) and Qatar. Hello? Aiky waky....They are two different countries.

Yaicks...this does prove that people should take information from this forum (& so called VIP Members) with a grain of salt. If someone can't be humble enough to accept their lack of knowledge, and also quickly try to shove it under other information like no one noticed it....i wonder how credible they are in sharing their knowledge on Canadian immigration. Perhaps their information is shaded too.

There is no excuse for IGNORANCE.

Wow!

Do YOU walk on water? Have you NEVER made a mistake?!

@canuck78 took responsibility by saying that they `stand corrected'.

And regarding dissing those of us here that are simply trying to `help' those that need FREE, sometimes giving totally incorrect FREE HELP, they always have the option of hiring a professional. News flash: sometimes even professionals make mistakes.