Applying for a “Verification of Status” while not meeting residency obligations

[MaHab]

Hi,

I’m in a situation in which I’m in Canada but don’t have a valid PR card. However, I need to prove my PR status to a certain important governmental program which accepts only either a valid PR card or a ‘Verification of Status‘ document as proof of PR status. When I asked if I can use my ‘Confirmation of Permanent Residence’ document (which I have), they specifically mentioned that they accept only those two documents as proof of PR status. I‘ve only been in Canada for 7 months in the past 5 years and so I won‘t be applying for renewal of my PR card until I meet the residency obligation (in 17 more months). I have 2 questions regarding the ‘Verification of Status’ document, please:

1) Can one apply for the ’Verification of Status’ even though they haven’t lost their original ‘Confirmation of Permanent Residence’ document? The application form specifically asks about what happened to the original document so it seems that this is a document that only someone who has lost their original document applies for. I was wondering if anyone has experience applying for the ‘Verification of Status’ document without having lost their original COPR/Record of Landing document.

2) Would applying for a ‘Verification of Status’ document be risky for someone who hasn’t met their PR residency obligations yet? Would it, for example, trigger an investigation into the Permanent Resident’s current status and whether or not they are currently meeting the PR residency obligations? Unlike the application for PR card renewal, the application for the ‘Verification of Status’ document doesn’t include questions regarding residency in Canada, number of days stayed in Canada, or the entries/exits to and from Canada. It also doesn’t ask for one’s consent to access data from the Canada Border Services Agency (CBSA) (regarding entries/exits) or the Canada Revenue Agency (CRA) (regarding tax filing). I’m still concerned about the possibility that such an application could ultimately lead to loss of my PR status, though. Could that be the case or is this document merely a ’brand new’ ‘Confirmation of Permanent Residency’? Has anyone heard of someone who has lost PR status due to applying for such a ‘Verification of Status’?

Thanks.

 

[steaky]

Hi,

I’m in a situation in which I’m in Canada but don’t have a valid PR card. However, I need to prove my PR status to a certain important governmental program which accepts only either a valid PR card or a ‘Verification of Status‘ document as proof of PR status. When I asked if I can use my ‘Confirmation of Permanent Residence’ document (which I have), they specifically mentioned that they accept only those two documents as proof of PR status. I‘ve only been in Canada for 7 months in the past 5 years and so I won‘t be applying for renewal of my PR card until I meet the residency obligation (in 17 more months). I have 2 questions regarding the ‘Verification of Status’ document, please:

1) Can one apply for the ’Verification of Status’ even though they haven’t lost their original ‘Confirmation of Permanent Residence’ document? The application form specifically asks about what happened to the original document so it seems that this is a document that only someone who has lost their original document applies for. I was wondering if anyone has experience applying for the ‘Verification of Status’ document without having lost their original COPR/Record of Landing document.

2) Would applying for a ‘Verification of Status’ document be risky for someone who hasn’t met their PR residency obligations yet? Would it, for example, trigger an investigation into the Permanent Resident’s current status and whether or not they are currently meeting the PR residency obligations? Unlike the application for PR card renewal, the application for the ‘Verification of Status’ document doesn’t include questions regarding residency in Canada, number of days stayed in Canada, or the entries/exits to and from Canada. It also doesn’t ask for one’s consent to access data from the Canada Border Services Agency (CBSA) (regarding entries/exits) or the Canada Revenue Agency (CRA) (regarding tax filing). I’m still concerned about the possibility that such an application could ultimately lead to loss of my PR status, though. Could that be the case or is this document merely a ’brand new’ ‘Confirmation of Permanent Residency’? Has anyone heard of someone who has lost PR status due to applying for such a ‘Verification of Status’?

Thanks.

Are you waiting for your first PR card? Yes, Verification of Status document are usually applied by people who lost their document (such as landing papers.

 

[MaHab]

Thanks for your reply, steaky.

It would be my second PR card. My first PR card expired 12 years ago. I entered Canada by land with my COPR 7 months ago without getting reported, thankfully. I wasn’t in Canada for a long time for various reasons.

I understand that the VoS documents are usually applied for by those who loose their immigration documents, but can someone who hasn’t lost theirs apply for one?

 

[dpenabill]

I’m in a situation in which I’m in Canada but don’t have a valid PR card. However, I need to prove my PR status to a certain important governmental program which accepts only either a valid PR card or a ‘Verification of Status‘ document as proof of PR status.

Sorry, but you are in a situation that has been reported by many others and discussed at length here. It is one of the difficulties facing PRs in breach of the RO.

And a bigger SORRY, so far it does not appear there is any easy or safe solution. Basically, as far as wrestling with this issue has been addressed in this forum (which has been a lot and at length), it comes down to:

-- waiting until it is safe to apply for a PR card (and then waiting to get the PR card), or​

-- applying for a PR card relying on H&C relief (at risk of not getting H&C relief and, rather, with a risk it will trigger issuing a Removal Order for inadmissibility due to a breach of the Residency Obligation), or​

-- depending on the particular program involved, a lawyer may help identify alternatives for meeting the program's requirements (offered with the caveat that we have NOT seen much to suggest feasible alternatives regarding health care coverage or drivers' licenses, or reactivating the SIN)​

Many times many here, including me, have urged PRs in this situation to obtain the assistance of a lawyer, and further urged those who do, to report back here what they learn. So far, covering many years now, this has not produced much if any insight into alternatives.


Regarding Verification of Status in particular:

As best I can discern, a "Verification of Status" (VOS) will NOT help you, since all it will do is verify you are a landed PR, the equivalent of the CoPR. And in many situations that is not enough to meet the requirements imposed for obtaining provincial health care coverage, drivers' licenses, certain other provincial benefits, or for obtaining or reactivating a SIN.

I am not sure if a government official would describe it this way (probably not), but there is a difference between:

-- verifying you have been granted the status of a landed Permanent Resident, which is what the CoPR does (and if a VOS is issued, that is what the VOS would likewise show), versus​

-- showing your PR status is currently valid (as in, you are not inadmissible)​

That is, the CoPR is the document that verifies a grant of PR status. A VOS in effect replaces the CoPR. (Note, one of the main reasons for obtaining this VOS is that Old Age Security benefits depend on how long a person has been a PR, so proof of date of landing may need to be provided when it comes time to obtain these benefits.)

A PR card (or for purposes of boarding a flight to Canada from abroad, a PR TD) is the document that verifies the individual currently has valid PR status (that is, is not inadmissible).

Note that among the list of available VOS documents (see https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/services/application/application-forms-guides/guide-5545-application-verification-status-vos-replacement-immigration-document.html ), the only PR related documents covered are landing documents, that is the old record of landing or the CoPR.

Again, sorry. This is basically the wages of inadmissibility . . . Inadmissibility for failing to comply with the RO is not self-enforcing, so a PR like you in Canada (and who I presume was allowed into Canada despite meeting the definition of inadmissible, without being subject to inadmissibility proceedings), can stay and keep PR status so long as they do not trigger a "Residency Determination." Such a PR can, in effect, totally cure the RO breach by just staying here long enough to have been present in Canada >730 days within the preceding five years. But in the meantime, until the PR is in RO compliance, the PR is nonetheless inadmissible despite no enforcement action for it. And yep, that poses some significant practical difficulties.

 

[canuck78]

Hi,

I’m in a situation in which I’m in Canada but don’t have a valid PR card. However, I need to prove my PR status to a certain important governmental program which accepts only either a valid PR card or a ‘Verification of Status‘ document as proof of PR status. When I asked if I can use my ‘Confirmation of Permanent Residence’ document (which I have), they specifically mentioned that they accept only those two documents as proof of PR status. I‘ve only been in Canada for 7 months in the past 5 years and so I won‘t be applying for renewal of my PR card until I meet the residency obligation (in 17 more months). I have 2 questions regarding the ‘Verification of Status’ document, please:

1) Can one apply for the ’Verification of Status’ even though they haven’t lost their original ‘Confirmation of Permanent Residence’ document? The application form specifically asks about what happened to the original document so it seems that this is a document that only someone who has lost their original document applies for. I was wondering if anyone has experience applying for the ‘Verification of Status’ document without having lost their original COPR/Record of Landing document.

2) Would applying for a ‘Verification of Status’ document be risky for someone who hasn’t met their PR residency obligations yet? Would it, for example, trigger an investigation into the Permanent Resident’s current status and whether or not they are currently meeting the PR residency obligations? Unlike the application for PR card renewal, the application for the ‘Verification of Status’ document doesn’t include questions regarding residency in Canada, number of days stayed in Canada, or the entries/exits to and from Canada. It also doesn’t ask for one’s consent to access data from the Canada Border Services Agency (CBSA) (regarding entries/exits) or the Canada Revenue Agency (CRA) (regarding tax filing). I’m still concerned about the possibility that such an application could ultimately lead to loss of my PR status, though. Could that be the case or is this document merely a ’brand new’ ‘Confirmation of Permanent Residency’? Has anyone heard of someone who has lost PR status due to applying for such a ‘Verification of Status’?

Thanks.

Assume you may be trying to obtain a health card. Unfortunately there are some serious drawbacks if you don’t meet your residency requirements and don’t have a valid PR card. You were very lucky to not get reported after being out of Canada for at least 12 years but most entering with such a large absence need to be prepared for the potential consequences until they meet their RO. Most in your situation just have to wait until they become compliant or technically you can take the provincial government to court. Not sure how much earlier you may be able to get a health card, whether that would lead to the provincial government reporting you to IRCC and would be quite costly if you hired a lawyer.

 

[armoured]

I need to prove my PR status to a certain important governmental program which accepts only either a valid PR card or a ‘Verification of Status‘ document as proof of PR status.

Could you identify which government program this is? It's possible others here may have some experience with this.

I also suspect that there's some confusion about what they have asked for. I'll have another post shortly.

 

[armoured]

As best I can discern, a "Verification of Status" (VOS) will NOT help you, since all it will do is verify you are a landed PR, the equivalent of the CoPR. And in many situations that is not enough to meet the requirements imposed for obtaining provincial health care coverage, drivers' licenses, certain other provincial benefits, or for obtaining or reactivating a SIN.

I am not sure if a government official would describe it this way (probably not), but there is a difference between:

-- verifying you have been granted the status of a landed Permanent Resident, which is what the CoPR does (and if a VOS is issued, that is what the VOS would likewise show), versus​

-- showing your PR status is currently valid (as in, you are not inadmissible)​

That is, the CoPR is the document that verifies a grant of PR status. A VOS in effect replaces the CoPR.

First I'd like to be clear and I think we should attempt (at least in this case) to answer the original question, i.e. will a Verification of Status (VOS) trigger a review of residency obligation compliance?

And up front, I do not know, but I believe the answer is likely that no, it should not trigger a review of RO compliance. That's a somewhat-informed guess - it's a record check and excerpt process, is my intuition. But truth is, I've no idea.

That said: I'm going to go back to and rephrase somewhat other responses above: I don't think it will help you because the VOS, in your case, will amount to (effectively) a [sort-of] copy of the COPR. When you look at the form IMM5009E, you choose which document you'd like the copy of - in your case the Immigrant Visa / Record of Landing / COPR - that's it, you won't get anything else. Note I'm calling it a copy, but the form could be a copy or an extract of the information from the COPR - eg a printout of all the info from the COPR but not an actual copy. I believe this is just because they have documents going back fifty+ years and they don't have physical or digital accessible copies or originals of all of them - at some point they just entered the important info into a database.

That's it, that's what you'll get. With two exceptions*, none of the other docs you could apply for here (mostly about other kinds of status) would tell whatever government agency you're dealing with anything different than the COPR.

Now the point everyone is getting to is that whatever government agency it is SHOULD know this. So perhaps there are wires crossed. Perhaps you misunderstand they want you to verify your status, and not the (capitalized) Verification of Status document. If so, this really means new PR card.

*That form does allow one to apply for copies of Exclusion Orders and Departure Orders. Hypothetically the absence of such might indicate that one has not lost the PR status. But I don't think that's what this is intended for and almost certainly not why this was requested. So warning that this is a red herring, don't recommend trying just for this part.

 

[MaHab]

Thanks everyone for your help here. I’m in Ontario and I issued my driver’s licence and health card, thankfully. My SIN is also active and didn’t get dormant because I was filing taxes as a non-resident.

Anyway, to clarify what my main issue is, I’m a graduate of medical school abroad and currently studying for the United States Medical Licensing Exams (USMLEs) in order to pursue residency training in the US as there are far more opportunities for foreign medical graduates in the US than in Canada. Since I’m not a US citizen or Green Card holder, I usually would have to enter the US on a J1 visa. Here’s an excerpt from https://www.canada.ca/en/health-canada/services/health-care-system/health-human-resources/statements-need-postgraduate-medical-training-united-states.html :


”When foreign national medical graduates wish to pursue postgraduate medical training in the US, they must obtain an appropriate visa that permits entry to the US to undertake clinical training activities. The designated visa for foreign national medical graduates is the J-1 Visa, a temporary non-immigrant visa, reserved for participants in the Exchange Visitor Sponsorship Program (EVSP), issued by the Educational Commission for Foreign Medical Graduates (ECFMG).

A Statement of Need is one of a number of requirements of the EVSP that must be met before a J-1 Visa can be issued to a medical graduate by the ECFMG”


As a PR of Canada, I would have to apply for something called a ‘Statement of Need’ from Health Canada in order to obtain this J1 visa and would have to return to Canada to practice medicine for at least 2 years as required by the J1 visa program (to benefit Canadians by practicing in specialties that the Canadian healthcare system needs).

In my case, I will meet the PR requirements and would be able to apply for a new PR card in mid May 2024, which would be only 1.5 months before the start of most residency training programs in the US (July 2024). However, I would need to apply for a ‘Statement of Need’ from Health Canada 2 months before that date, in mid March 2024 (with a letter of offer from a US program if I match into one). On the website, they say that they only accept a valid, non-expired PR card as proof of PR status, however, I decided to ask them specifically if they would accept the COPR as proof of PR status and this was their reply:


“Dear Doctor,

Following consultation with Immigration, Citizenship and Refugee Canada (IRCC), Health Canada determined that it would accept either a Verification of Status (VoS) document or valid permanent resident card as proof of permanent residency for a SON. A VoS can be obtained from IRCC and details can be found at the following link - https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/services/application/application-formsguides/guide-5545-application-verification-status-vos-replacement-immigration-document.html

If you have any further questions pertaining to the Statement of Need program, please do not hesitate to contact us.

Thank you,

J1 Visa Statement of Need Program/ Programme de déclaration de besoin
Health Canada /Santé Canada”


I hope this information clarifies why I‘m asking the above 2 questions.

I would highly appreciate your valuable input.

Thanks

 

[armoured]

In my case, I will meet the PR requirements and would be able to apply for a new PR card in mid May 2024, which would be only 1.5 months before the start of most residency training programs in the US (July 2024). However, I would need to apply for a ‘Statement of Need’ from Health Canada 2 months before that date, in mid March 2024 (with a letter of offer from a US program if I match into one). On the website, they say that they only accept a valid, non-expired PR card as proof of PR status, however, I decided to ask them specifically if they would accept the COPR as proof of PR status and this was their reply:

“Dear Doctor,

Following consultation with Immigration, Citizenship and Refugee Canada (IRCC), Health Canada determined that it would accept either a Verification of Status (VoS) document or valid permanent resident card as proof of permanent residency for a SON. A VoS can be obtained from IRCC and details can be found at the following link - https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/services/application/application-formsguides/guide-5545-application-verification-status-vos-replacement-immigration-document.html

If you have any further questions pertaining to the Statement of Need program, please do not hesitate to contact us.

That is a highly specific and new (to me) reason to get one!

And please - reflect on this, that when you're asking questions, you really need to include relevant information. The fact that you corresponded with one federal agency that consulted with IRCC directly on your case - that's relevant information you can't just leave out if you want to get a sensible answer.

As a doctor you should know this.

And basically - it sounds to me like you got your answer. That's what you should do, because that's what they told you to do.

And personally, I think the risk of them using this request for the VOS to cause you problems for non-compliance with the RO is low. Again, a somewhat-informed guess. Reinforced even more by the fact that one agency told you to do this and consulted with IRCC and no hint they are playing games.

If you want a better answer, you're probably going to have to engage a lawyer - and not sure they're going to be able to give you a more firm answer, either.

 

[MaHab]

Thanks for your valuable input. Actually I’m not so sure whether they consulted with IRCC on my specific situation or just generally. That’s why I didn’t include this information initially and asked in a more general sense. Anyway, thanks for your advice. I‘ll definitely take it into consideration next time.
I think I’d be better off waiting for an extra year in order to go for US training as a Canadian Citizen as opposed to a PR. That way I would also be free from the PR residency obligations (unless somehow IRCC would consider this time in the US on a statement of need from Health Canada as counting towards PR residency obligations).

Thanks

 

[dpenabill]

I think I’d be better off waiting for an extra year in order to go for US training as a Canadian Citizen as opposed to a PR. That way I would also be free from the PR residency obligations . . .

A delay is probably a good choice. Even if you go as a PR but solidly meeting the RO. (Waiting on qualifying for and obtaining Canadian citizenship would probably add significantly more than another year.)

In the meantime I had commented further . . . which amounts to taking the long way round to a similar conclusion, about waiting another year.

Following consultation with Immigration, Citizenship and Refugee Canada (IRCC), Health Canada determined that it would accept either a Verification of Status (VoS) document or valid permanent resident card as proof of permanent residency for a SON. A VoS can be obtained from IRCC and details can be found at the following link - https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/services/application/application-formsguides/guide-5545-application-verification-status-vos-replacement-immigration-document.html

@armoured was clearly right to focus on the primary question posed, in regards to whether an application for a VOS by a PR in breach of the RO might risk RO enforcement (inadmissibility proceedings).

In regards to that question specifically:

I tend to agree with @armoured the risk is probably low, if there is any risk at all, largely because there is nothing to indicate a Residency Determination is needed or otherwise triggered by an application for a VOS. And in particular, given what information is verified in the VOS, and what information needs to be submitted with the application for it, further suggests there is no reason to apprehend it would trigger a Residency Determination. (But see some musings below.)

What triggers a Residency Determination, so far as we know, are applications in which the validity of the PR's status, as in having PR status AND not being inadmissible, are an eligibility requirement. This includes applications:

-- for a PR card​

-- for a PR TD​

-- for sponsoring a family member's PR family class application, and​

-- for an application to enter Canada (and as to this, this application made by just showing up at a Port-of-Entry, this typically does not trigger a Residency Determination unless something more indicates a RO compliance issue)​

While I only read a portion of the published IAD decisions regarding inadmissibility proceedings against PRs for RO noncompliance, I have read and researched many and have not encountered any cases where it arose from any transaction other than these I just listed. That is, all of the RO cases I have seen in IAD decisions derive from one of those applications.

In conjunction with the absence of any forum anecdotal reports of a VOS application triggering a Residency Determination, this would ordinarily be a solid indicator there is very low if any risk. Only caveat is that the context is so narrow, the absence of known or reported cases could, possibly, be due to how uncommon it is that PRs in breach apply for a VOS . . . noting that the reason for this, as I went to some length to explain above, is that generally a VOS does not help.

Leading to some further observations, perhaps merely curious musing . . . yet leaning toward exercising caution . . .

I know nothing about J1 visas (and rather little about U.S. visas generally), and nothing about a ‘Statement of Need’ from Health Canada, let alone qualifying for participation in the Exchange Visitor Sponsorship Program.

But it is curious that Health Canada has "determined that it would accept either a Verification of Status (VoS) document or valid permanent resident card as proof of permanent residency for a SON" . . . BUT not the CoPR. The VOS only verifies the information in a CoPR. So why not accept a CoPR? Their communication says this was determined following consultation with IRCC. What about issuing a VOS makes it an acceptable verification of status in place of a valid, non-expired PR card as proof of PR status?

Meanwhile, the application for the VOS does ask a question regarding a PR's potential inadmissibility for criminality, in question 7 asking non-Canadian citizen applicants to declare any convictions for a crime.

So, before issuing the VOS it appears there is some level of inquiry and verification as to the CURRENT validity of the PR's status, not just a verification of the information in the CoPR, even if the content of the VOS only verifies the same information as in the CoPR. (Note: it appears that applications for VOS, as to PR landing information, are primarily made by retirement age naturalized Canadian citizens who, as I previously noted, may need the VOS to establish date they obtained resident status in Canada for Old Age Security benefits.)

Conclusions:

I do not know what the actual risk is.

Whatever risk there is will decrease the longer you are here, the more settled in Canada you are in the meantime.

So the longer you can put off making the application, the less risk of RO related inquiry, and the less risk of loss of PR status even if a RO compliance inquiry is triggered.

As you get closer to actually being in RO compliance, even the risk a PR card application will trigger RO breach related inadmissibility proceedings decreases, but since travel history information is not included in the VOS application (as you have noted), there should be considerably less risk of a loss-of-PR-status outcome even if something triggers a Residency Determination.

BUT then there is the processing timeline:

Current processing timeline for VOS applications, as reported by IRCC, is between five and six months, about twice as long as the currently reported timeline for PR card applications. That is probably for routinely processed applications. As I have noted, my strong sense is that most applications for VOS which are more likely to fit into the routinely processed category, are those made by naturalized Canadian citizens getting the VOS to establish the date of landing attendant qualifying for Old Age Security benefits.

Meanwhile you probably have an elevated risk for non-routine processing for either a VOS or PR card. So navigating toward a 2024 position may require making some difficult choices.

 

[armoured]

Actually I’m not so sure whether they consulted with IRCC on my specific situation or just generally. That’s why I didn’t include this information initially and asked in a more general sense. Anyway, thanks for your advice. I‘ll definitely take it into consideration next time.

I'm not saying they used your name but I feel pretty confident (bureaucracies) they did consult about your question.

I think I’d be better off waiting for an extra year in order to go for US training as a Canadian Citizen as opposed to a PR. That way I would also be free from the PR residency obligations (unless somehow IRCC would consider this time in the US on a statement of need from Health Canada as counting towards PR residency obligations).

I've no opinion on that but there is no question that the timeline might be tight from a couple of perspectives - so recognizing it might take a year more is perhaps more realistic. While I doubt citizenship would come along to resolve the issue of the visa needed, you might be able to get enough time in Canada to be able to apply (and going abroad to study shouldn't harm too much the treatment of the citizenship app).

 

[canuck78]

Are you having to prove your status to the US government? It you are trying to secure a residency in the US or a job as a physician will you be able to continue meeting your RO? That is something you will have to consider. Will you be living in Canada and working in the US? Once you apply for Canadian citizenship the processing time can be around 2 years so Canadian citizenship is quite a long way from now. You shouldn’t qualify for urgent processing gut citizenship either because you are trying to leave Canada to work in the US. Urgent processing is usually granted if citizenship is needed to secure a job in Canada (usually due to a security clearance issue).

 

[MaHab]

Good evening everyone.

I’d like to thank you all very much for your help, experience, and valuable advice. I highly appreciate it. I just recently asked Health Canada why they would not accept a Confirmation of Permanent Residence as proof of PR status because the VOS, as dpenabill noted, only verifies the information in a CoPR. Unfortunately, I got the same answer from them.

I’ll wait until I’m more settled in Canada before applying for the VoS if I need to. Otherwise I’ll wait for an extra year to be eligible for Citizenship so I can apply for it then leave for the US training and hopefully return to Canada for the test and ceremony (even if it takes 2 years). In that case I would also be able to obtain a new valid PR card and would be able to apply for a Statement of Need from Health Canada without the need for a VoS (and therefore without the slight risk associated with obtaining one in my case).

The second scenario would also free me more from the PR residency obligation issue (since training in the US entails a minimum of 3 years outside Canada which would make me at risk for yet another breach of RO).

In any case, I’ll weigh the pros and cons of each scenario for myself and make an informed decision, thanks to your useful input.

Have a wonderful weekend everyone!