Residency Obligation

[northamerican_PR_GC]

Hello!
I am trying to understand the RO rules. I have read a lot about it but not able to get a clear answer.
Sorry, if this is repetitive question.
Background -
I got my PR in Aug 2019 and I completed the soft landing back then. I moved to Canada this year - June 2022. My PR card expires in Aug 2024. I need to travel to US for couple every month. I am tracking my travel dates to help calculate the presence in Canada.
Q -

1. Does PR card expiry has anything to do with PR status?
2. If I am unable to fulfill the RO before the expiry of my PR card will I loose my status?
3. Do I need an unexpired PR card to work in Canada?
4. Can I live and work legally in Canada after my PR card expires?
5. What document will I need to request in advance in case I have a need to travel before I get my renewed card?
6. Is it mandatory to fulfill the RO before entering the country (Canada) with an expired PR card supporting travel document?

Thank you for your patience!

 

[armoured]

1. Does PR card expiry has anything to do with PR status?
2. If I am unable to fulfill the RO before the expiry of my PR card will I loose my status?
3. Do I need an unexpired PR card to work in Canada?
4. Can I live and work legally in Canada after my PR card expires?
5. What document will I need to request in advance in case I have a need to travel before I get my renewed card?
6. Is it mandatory to fulfill the RO before entering the country (Canada) with an expired PR card supporting travel document?

Thank you for your patience!

I'm going to start with this: easiest to calculate your compliance this way, if in any five year period, you have been out of Canada more than 1095 days, you are not in compliance. The first five year period begins the day you land and ends five years after that - and after that, looking back on any day you are 'examined' (interact with IRCC, the most common of which is crossing a border/arriving at a port of entry).

1. No, they are entirely independent. (You should check your date of landing, it is rare that date of landing and issuance of card coincide, usually a couple months or so off).
2. No - you are in or out of compliance as described above.
3. No, you can work without a card.
4. Yes.
5. This is where your problem will be. Basically they will not renew your card if you are not in compliance with the RO.
6. Not exactly. First, very important to understand that without a valid PR card, you will not be able to board a plane to Canada (unless you're USA passport holder), although you can cross at a land border. Any time you cross the border while you are out of compliance, you run the risk of being reported and being issued a removal order (although subject to appeal, and uyou can remain in Canada and work while you are appealing). Border officers have the authority to exercise discretion (leniency) on this and don't tend to issue the reports for less time out of compliance / obviously settled in canada / working / shorter trips abroad / etc. They also must consider any humanitarian and compassionate reasons you may provide.

But the risk is there every time one crosses and increases wijt the number of interactions, etc.

If you will need to travel a lot, or have things come up requiring longer absences, or crossing at land border is not feasible, this can all get quite ... uncomfortable and impractical.

If on the other hand your trips abroad are actually only a couple days a month, you might be able to remain in compliance or only be out of compliance for a short while.

I repeat though, you do not have to have a valid PR card to live and work in Canada, it's not at all required.

Good luck.

 

[northamerican_PR_GC]

I'm going to start with this: easiest to calculate your compliance this way, if in any five year period, you have been out of Canada more than 1095 days, you are not in compliance. The first five year period begins the day you land and ends five years after that - and after that, looking back on any day you are 'examined' (interact with IRCC, the most common of which is crossing a border/arriving at a port of entry).

1. No, they are entirely independent. (You should check your date of landing, it is rare that date of landing and issuance of card coincide, usually a couple months or so off).
2. No - you are in or out of compliance as described above.
3. No, you can work without a card.
4. Yes.
5. This is where your problem will be. Basically they will not renew your card if you are not in compliance with the RO.
6. Not exactly. First, very important to understand that without a valid PR card, you will not be able to board a plane to Canada (unless you're USA passport holder), although you can cross at a land border. Any time you cross the border while you are out of compliance, you run the risk of being reported and being issued a removal order (although subject to appeal, and uyou can remain in Canada and work while you are appealing). Border officers have the authority to exercise discretion (leniency) on this and don't tend to issue the reports for less time out of compliance / obviously settled in canada / working / shorter trips abroad / etc. They also must consider any humanitarian and compassionate reasons you may provide.

But the risk is there every time one crosses and increases wijt the number of interactions, etc.

If you will need to travel a lot, or have things come up requiring longer absences, or crossing at land border is not feasible, this can all get quite ... uncomfortable and impractical.

If on the other hand your trips abroad are actually only a couple days a month, you might be able to remain in compliance or only be out of compliance for a short while.

I repeat though, you do not have to have a valid PR card to live and work in Canada, it's not at all required.

Good luck.

Thank you so much for your response!
Few follow ups please.

1. My date or landing and PR since on the back of PR card is exactly the same. Can I use this as point of reference to check compliance?
2. What happens if I am not in compliance, meaning I am not able to stay in Canada for 730 before the last day of the PR card? Only my travel outside the country is restricted? Do I need to justify to anyone why I am not in compliant with presence rule from the date of landing to when the date when the five years is complete?
3. Can I just stay in Canada for those extra days (Let's say I am short of 100 days) without travelling outside the country to become compliant and apply for renewal of PR card?
4. Does being non complaint has any repercussion?
5. How many hours does one has to spend in a given day within the country for that day to be considered against presence (Ex.: If I travel to US today and come back tomorrow night, will I loose any presence in Canada as I was in the country for some parts of both days).

Thank you!

 

[armoured]

1. My date or landing and PR since on the back of PR card is exactly the same. Can I use this as point of reference to check compliance?
2. What happens if I am not in compliance, meaning I am not able to stay in Canada for 730 before the last day of the PR card? Only my travel outside the country is restricted? Do I need to justify to anyone why I am not in compliant with presence rule from the date of landing to when the date when the five years is complete?
3. Can I just stay in Canada for those extra days (Let's say I am short of 100 days) without travelling outside the country to become compliant and apply for renewal of PR card?
4. Does being non complaint has any repercussion?
5. How many hours does one has to spend in a given day within the country for that day to be considered against presence (Ex.: If I travel to US today and come back tomorrow night, will I loose any presence in Canada as I was in the country for some parts of both days).

1. Yes, I thought you were referring to expiry of PR card.
2. Nothing happens as long as you are in Canada and don't interact with IRCC in a way that might cause 'examination' (apart from crossing border, do things like apply for PR card renewal or attempt to sponsor a family member).
3. Yes.
4. No.
5. Partial days count as being in Canada, no minimum time requirement. (Note, as long as actually admitted at a port of entry)

 

[northamerican_PR_GC]

1. Yes, I thought you were referring to expiry of PR card.
2. Nothing happens as long as you are in Canada and don't interact with IRCC in a way that might cause 'examination' (apart from crossing border, do things like apply for PR card renewal or attempt to sponsor a family member).
3. Yes.
4. No.
5. Partial days count as being in Canada, no minimum time requirement. (Note, as long as actually admitted at a port of entry)

Thank you so much!
This has been super helpful!

Last few confirmations:

• Residency Obligation can be fulfilled anytime irrespective of 5 year period from the date of landing. Meaning the 5 year period is variable, it is always 5 years in the past from today.
• No need to worry as long as I am in the country before the expiry of PR card. I can stay back to fulfill the obligation of 730 days and renew the PR card before travel and I will be in compliance.
• Partial days is a little confusing - I had read that only nights spent in Canada counts toward presence. Is that not true?
  • Is this a valid example? - I leave the country at 6 am on a given day and come back the next day at 11:30pm are both these days counted towards presence in the country?

 

[armoured]

• 1 - Residency Obligation can be fulfilled anytime irrespective of 5 year period from the date of landing. Meaning the 5 year period is variable, it is always 5 years in the past from today.
• 2 - No need to worry as long as I am in the country before the expiry of PR card. I can stay back to fulfill the obligation of 730 days and renew the PR card before travel and I will be in compliance.
• 3 - Partial days is a little confusing - I had read that only nights spent in Canada counts toward presence. Is that not true?
  • 4 - Is this a valid example? - I leave the country at 6 am on a given day and come back the next day at 11:30pm are both these days counted towards presence in the country?

1) I'd prefer to state simply that yes, compliance with RO is examined on the basis of last five years looking back from date of examination (save first five years). I'm not sure what you mean 'residency obligation can be fulfilled anytime'; if all you mean is that on examination, they don't 'look back' at previous periods of non-compliance for someone who is compliant on the day of examination, that is largely true (there are specific circumstances in which days-present cease to accrue, e.g. after being reported under the specific procedure (44(1)?) for non-compliance, which the PR would usually be aware of). This is getting complicated in terms of verbiage so I'm going to stop - compliance is measured on day of examination, looking back five years. There's no ongoing procedure to 'test' whether PRs in (or outside) Canada are compliant apart from being involved in some formal interaction with IRCC/CBSA.
2) Not exactly. The PR card itself technically has nothing to do with it, except as the means of boarding the plane to Canada (and one could return by land without the valid PR card). At the border: PR card or no, the officer can examine compliance iwth the residency obligation (and exercise leniency for non-compliance, or not). Therefore compliance at the time of entering Canada very much does matter.
But for the second part of your question, yes: once IN Canada, the PR can simply remain in Canada for 730 days (or whatever is needed to get compliant) with zero issues about compliance.
3) There's nothing about spending a night in Canada. A PR who flew in, went through passport control ('entered' Canada) and boarded a flight out would be considered physically present for that day.
4) Yes, both those days would count.

 

[northamerican_PR_GC]

1) I'd prefer to state simply that yes, compliance with RO is examined on the basis of last five years looking back from date of examination (save first five years). I'm not sure what you mean 'residency obligation can be fulfilled anytime'; if all you mean is that on examination, they don't 'look back' at previous periods of non-compliance for someone who is compliant on the day of examination, that is largely true (there are specific circumstances in which days-present cease to accrue, e.g. after being reported under the specific procedure (44(1)?) for non-compliance, which the PR would usually be aware of). This is getting complicated in terms of verbiage so I'm going to stop - compliance is measured on day of examination, looking back five years. There's no ongoing procedure to 'test' whether PRs in (or outside) Canada are compliant apart from being involved in some formal interaction with IRCC/CBSA.
2) Not exactly. The PR card itself technically has nothing to do with it, except as the means of boarding the plane to Canada (and one could return by land without the valid PR card). At the border: PR card or no, the officer can examine compliance iwth the residency obligation (and exercise leniency for non-compliance, or not). Therefore compliance at the time of entering Canada very much does matter.
But for the second part of your question, yes: once IN Canada, the PR can simply remain in Canada for 730 days (or whatever is needed to get compliant) with zero issues about compliance.
3) There's nothing about spending a night in Canada. A PR who flew in, went through passport control ('entered' Canada) and boarded a flight out would be considered physically present for that day.
4) Yes, both those days would count.

Wohoo!!
Thanks a ton!
Have a great day

 

[canuck78]

Hello!
I am trying to understand the RO rules. I have read a lot about it but not able to get a clear answer.
Sorry, if this is repetitive question.
Background -
I got my PR in Aug 2019 and I completed the soft landing back then. I moved to Canada this year - June 2022. My PR card expires in Aug 2024. I need to travel to US for couple every month. I am tracking my travel dates to help calculate the presence in Canada.
Q -

1. Does PR card expiry has anything to do with PR status?
2. If I am unable to fulfill the RO before the expiry of my PR card will I loose my status?
3. Do I need an unexpired PR card to work in Canada?
4. Can I live and work legally in Canada after my PR card expires?
5. What document will I need to request in advance in case I have a need to travel before I get my renewed card?
6. Is it mandatory to fulfill the RO before entering the country (Canada) with an expired PR card supporting travel document?

Thank you for your patience!

Just a warning. If you didn’t spend much time in Canada after your soft landing in August 2019 and only returned in June 2022 you have a very small buffer before you are no longer compliant with your RO. Maybe less than 2 months. I would try to minimize how much time you spend outside of Canada because emergencies do come up. We see lots of examples of people who have only a small amount of days until they are no longer compliant with their RO and then they face a family emergency and have to travel abroad. Would make sure to keep at least a few weeks in case you do run into an emergency situation. You will also have to plan for the time period when you have to renew your PR card. You may end up without a valid PR for multiple months. You’ll still be able to cross the land border from the US but won’t be able to fly into Canada. You are responsible for keeping track of your entry and exits into Canada and days spent in Canada. I would suggest keeping a record of your entry and exits as they happen. It is much easier than having to go back and figure it out when you go to renew your PR card. If you apply for PR card renewal and you are very close to the 730 days and/or have travelled a lot your PR card renewal can take longer to process because IRCCwants to verify that you have actually met the 730 days.

 

[northamerican_PR_GC]

Just a warning. If you didn’t spend much time in Canada after your soft landing in August 2019 and only returned in June 2022 you have a very small buffer before you are no longer compliant with your RO. Maybe less than 2 months. I would try to minimize how much time you spend outside of Canada because emergencies do come up. We see lots of examples of people who have only a small amount of days until they are no longer compliant with their RO and then they face a family emergency and have to travel abroad. Would make sure to keep at least a few weeks in case you do run into an emergency situation. You will also have to plan for the time period when you have to renew your PR card. You may end up without a valid PR for multiple months. You’ll still be able to cross the land border from the US but won’t be able to fly into Canada. You are responsible for keeping track of your entry and exits into Canada and days spent in Canada. I would suggest keeping a record of your entry and exits as they happen. It is much easier than having to go back and figure it out when you go to renew your PR card. If you apply for PR card renewal and you are very close to the 730 days and/or have travelled a lot your PR card renewal can take longer to process because IRCCwants to verify that you have actually met the 730 days.

Hi
Thank you for your suggestions.
I am keeping track of the number of days left in Buffer over and above 730 days to ensure I am in compliant. I maintain a sheet with all the details after each trip.
I recently realized I did not factor in the time needed for PR card renewal. It looks like I will have to end up staying in the country without valid PR card for few months.
Can you please clarify this statement - "You may end up without a valid PR for multiple months." Will I end up being without a PR or PR card for few months? I thought PR doesn't get affected as long as I am within Canada.
Apart from not travelling a lot and keep a track of every travel, is there anything I can do to avoid extra scrutiny?

 

[scylla]

Hi
Thank you for your suggestions.
I am keeping track of the number of days left in Buffer over and above 730 days to ensure I am in compliant. I maintain a sheet with all the details after each trip.
I recently realized I did not factor in the time needed for PR card renewal. It looks like I will have to end up staying in the country without valid PR card for few months.
Can you please clarify this statement - "You may end up without a valid PR for multiple months." Will I end up being without a PR or PR card for few months? I thought PR doesn't get affected as long as I am within Canada.
Apart from not travelling a lot and keep a track of every travel, is there anything I can do to avoid extra scrutiny?

You would be without a valid PR card only. Your PR status will still be valid.

 

[YVR123]

Hi
Thank you for your suggestions.
I am keeping track of the number of days left in Buffer over and above 730 days to ensure I am in compliant. I maintain a sheet with all the details after each trip.
I recently realized I did not factor in the time needed for PR card renewal. It looks like I will have to end up staying in the country without valid PR card for few months.
Can you please clarify this statement - "You may end up without a valid PR for multiple months." Will I end up being without a PR or PR card for few months? I thought PR doesn't get affected as long as I am within Canada.
Apart from not travelling a lot and keep a track of every travel, is there anything I can do to avoid extra scrutiny?

PR card is only needed to travel back into Canada.

If you are living in Canada and have already gotten all the required ID (provincial medical card, drivers license, SIN...etc), you do not need a non-expired PR card. Your PR status is valid without a valid PR card.

 

[canuck78]

Hi
Thank you for your suggestions.
I am keeping track of the number of days left in Buffer over and above 730 days to ensure I am in compliant. I maintain a sheet with all the details after each trip.
I recently realized I did not factor in the time needed for PR card renewal. It looks like I will have to end up staying in the country without valid PR card for few months.
Can you please clarify this statement - "You may end up without a valid PR for multiple months." Will I end up being without a PR or PR card for few months? I thought PR doesn't get affected as long as I am within Canada.
Apart from not travelling a lot and keep a track of every travel, is there anything I can do to avoid extra scrutiny?

Sorry that should have said PR card. Usually suggest people have at least a few months more than 730 days to try to avoid extra scrutiny but probably won’t work in your case if you want to try and renew as soon as possible and also have frequent travel. You may avoid extra scrutiny it isn’t guaranteed but you will have to plan on being without a valid PR card for multiple months.

 

[northamerican_PR_GC]

You would be without a valid PR card only. Your PR status will still be valid.

Understood. Thank you!

 

[northamerican_PR_GC]

PR card is only needed to travel back into Canada.

If you are living in Canada and have already gotten all the required ID (provincial medical card, drivers license, SIN...etc), you do not need a non-expired PR card. Your PR status is valid without a valid PR card.

Got it. Thank you!

 

[northamerican_PR_GC]

Sorry that should have said PR card. Usually suggest people have at least a few months more than 730 days to try to avoid extra scrutiny but probably won’t work in your case if you want to try and renew as soon as possible and also have frequent travel. You may avoid extra scrutiny it isn’t guaranteed but you will have to plan on being without a valid PR card for multiple months.

Okay. I will try and get more number of days in presence that the minimum required before applying. Thanks!