FSW WORLDWIDE

[Deleted member 1006777]

I don't know about you, but I find Holthe irritating because he spends so much time advertising his services, and I also find him annoying as a person. But his info is generally solid and correct (except when trying to scare people into buying his courses).

Yeah at the end of the day, his business model involves giving generic information out for free (this is stuff that anyone should be able to find out on their own, but choose not to) and then divert people towards his paid consultations. Can't blame the guy for running a business. He is kinda lame and irritating, I agree.

 

[SatNight]

The graduate streams are not NOC specific. Graduate from whatever province your university is in, you qualify for the graduate stream PNP, live in that province till you get your citizenship and then move. Don't like Ontario? Tough shit. It'll still be better than the country you're trying to immigrate from. Tough it out for a few years. Simple.



Because until they had combined draws, scores have historically gone up only. All the way from 2018 when 440 was considered a good score. When they restarted CEC draws, even after the megadraw that pulled out every CEC candidate, wen they resumed draws, the scores only went up to 460s, and went back down immediately. When they temporarily resumed FSW on the other hand, the scores went back up to high 470s or 480s.

It's not that only FSWs can get high scores, it's that on average it's FSW that do get high scores because they are more competitive. The average CEC (not you) spends more time content with their 400 score hoping for the system to help them out (which it usually does, and will continue to do so).


Good for you. I'm assuming you're CEC, and I can tell you that you're far ahead of the average CEC candidate. You are not the average CEC with your desire to push your scores. You may be older than the typical CEC candidate, but to be more precise you're better, just because you're trying to push your scores. I understand your desire to defend CECs becasue a lot of what I say sounds like a personal attack against you. It's not.


This alone tells me you're new to the immigration process. Go try out scenarios on their score calculators. I don't remember the exact scores anymore, but bachelors + 1year of exp for CEC is a higher score than a master's + 3 years of exp for FSW, assuming language age etc is kept the same. So if everything is done perfectly, a CEC can get a higher score FOUR YEARS sooner than an FSW. By definition it is easier for a CEC to compete in the same pool but they just choose not to.

True, graduate streams are not NOC specific, but not all provinces have them, and some require you to have a valid job offer. Not everyone goes to school in Ontario.

Yes, we are CEC, but I am not specifically defending CEC candidates as much as airing my frustration at how limited this process is, while being told that it's super easy. Maybe we are doing it wrong. I don't know how people get in with 400 scores, or what kind of occupations. Maybe we should have become a truck driver instead (no disrespect to truck drivers, but I don't think just anyone can do it.)

Based on this calculation, there is no reason why FSW people get higher scores. I always assumed most of you have 10+ years of experience, which is probably true for many, but that also comes with older age and lack of Canadian points. So I agree that there is no excuse for CEC candidates.

I will be perfectly honest: we got this high in score thanks to French. Yes, education and and Canadian experience matter and do bring points, but it could not help offset our age. French did it. It's not my achievement;it's my wife. So I am not saying that I did it. But it's sure an option, and I know many people say it's difficult, but to be honest, it was still easier than finding a job that will give a proper job offer. Maybe the job offer is easier for some people. In any cases, I agree that there are options in that sense. But not necessarily in programs what target only a narrow group of people.

 

[Deleted member 1006777]

thats exactly the point of being inland! if a pnp requires works experience in their province, go work there! if aipp requires you to study in one of the provinces, go study there! you see being inland you can fit yourself into one of the immigration programs, easily.

I am so fed up arguing with you. if you think ee is the only way, so be it.

Yeah they seem to be missing the point that having those extra streams is literally the advantage. If they don't qualify for them, that's on them.

 

[Deleted member 1006777]

True, graduate streams are not NOC specific, but not all provinces have them, and some require you to have a valid job offer. Not everyone goes to school in Ontario.

Ontario was an example. As I have stated before, other provinces also have similar streams. If you didn't look into them when you started your degree, and cater your experience accordingly, that's on you.

Based on this calculation, there is no reason why FSW people get higher scores. I always assumed most of you have 10+ years of experience, which is probably true for many, but that also comes with older age and lack of Canadian points.

How is this to hard for you to understand? The average FSW profile now is a master's + 3 years of work exp which can be achieved by the age of 27. That gives a 2 year leeway if you have a gap. That's a score of 481. It is clear that they also have significantly better english scores.

The average CEC is content with a bachelor's and one year exp and much worse english. To give you an example, most universities, the lambda types, have an eglish requirement of a clb6. That's lower than my goddamn french ability. That's how these people circumvent the competition. Foreign degrees and experience with a clb6 will NEVER get an ITA. But CECs will.

Yes, CECs should have higher scores, but they don't. That is the point. Worse english, lazy, entitled. Begging for easier pathways. Meanwhile FSWs are desperate enough to retake IELTS several times, learn french etc. to keep their scores competitive.

ut it's sure an option, and I know many people say it's difficult, but to be honest, it was still easier than finding a job that will give a proper job offer.

I also got my score because of french, and I will disagree with people. All it took was consistency and time. It wasn't necessarily easy, but the process was simple. Anyone who says it's too difficult is making excuses. That's all there is to it.

Maybe we are doing it wrong. I don't know how people get in with 400 scores, or what kind of occupations.

You are doing something wrong I don't know what it is. It's not that people still get in with 400, it's that they did for the last two years. You're frustrated because you don't have it as easy as they did. Meanwhile any FSW would kill to be in your situation becasue it's that much harder for them to be competitive. It's not to say you, in your current situation have it easy. It's that you in your current situation still have it easier that FSWs. And to your credit, you're doing it right, trying to improve your scores etc.

You've experienced in the last 7 months what FSWs have experienced in an amplified manner for the last 31 months. Perspective.

 

[SatNight]

thats exactly the point of being inland! if a pnp requires works experience in their province, go work there! if aipp requires you to study in one of the provinces, go study there! you see being inland you can fit yourself into one of the immigration programs, easily.

I am so fed up arguing with you. if you think ee is the only way, so be it.

But what if you are already working in a different province? Have an education from a different province? Finding a skilled job in Canada is not easy enough so you can pick and choose based on their PNP. In fact, choosing a school or a province for its PNP is a horrible way to go, because what if a program changes by the time you graduate? (It happens often).

When my wife was starting her PhD, there was a federal PhD stream that they cut. That stuff happens all the time.

Seriously, arguing how it's easy to just jump where you want to become eligible for their PNP is not that realistic for many people. It's like telling a FSW "well, just go to Canada as a student and after graduation you will become inland". Are there people who are doing it? Yes. But it's not a proper advice, because it's not a solution to the current mess that exists with FSW.

 

[SatNight]

Yeah they seem to be missing the point that having those extra streams is literally the advantage. If they don't qualify for them, that's on them.

Ok, so following that logic, the fact that FSW don't qualify for those programs is on them, too. Why are they not inland?

 

[Deleted member 1006777]

Ok, so following that logic, the fact that FSW don't qualify for those programs is on them, too. Why are they not inland?

jfc man, are you daft? You think anyone can just wake up and choose to be inland? You either need to go to school there or have significant connections to get an LMIA processed. Having a PGWP, which is an OPEN work permit, is far more flexible than a closed LMIA if they even get one, which is incredibly rare.

"Why are they not inland" this is some laughable stuff.

I'm out, this is exhausting. You have it real tough, I'll cry for you tonight.

To your credit you're trying to improve your scores, and you'll get your ITA. You being uninformed about the different pathways available to you isn't my problem.

 

[sidou]

Guys, there is a question in ITA application that says : "n which province or territory does X intend to reside?
Does it matter for FSW applicants what city they put ? i mean can they put any city and when they go there are they obligated to go to that city ?

 

[Deleted member 1006777]

Guys, there is a question in ITA application that says : "n which province or territory does X intend to reside?
Does it matter for FSW applicants what city they put ? i mean can they put any city and when they go there are they obligated to go to that city ?

Nope you're not obligated. Just don't put Quebec.

 

[Ultraxion]

But what if you are already working in a different province? Have an education from a different province? Finding a skilled job in Canada is not easy enough so you can pick and choose based on their PNP. In fact, choosing a school or a province for its PNP is a horrible way to go, because what if a program changes by the time you graduate? (It happens often).

When my wife was starting her PhD, there was a federal PhD stream that they cut. That stuff happens all the time.

Seriously, arguing how it's easy to just jump where you want to become eligible for their PNP is not that realistic for many people. It's like telling a FSW "well, just go to Canada as a student and after graduation you will become inland". Are there people who are doing it? Yes. But it's not a proper advice, because it's not a solution to the current mess that exists with FSW.

if your goal is to immigrate, you should do a thorough research beforehand and plan accordingly. i dont know why it is so hard for you to understand.

and some PNP programs accept NOC level C or even D work experience. again, you should go research. if your goal is to get good life in Canada and immigrate at the same time, then i am sorry to say ee is indeed your only choice.

 

[SatNight]

jfc man, are you daft? You think anyone can just wake up and choose to be inland? You either need to go to school there or have significant connections to get an LMIA processed. Having a PGWP, which is an OPEN work permit, is far more flexible than a closed LMIA if they even get one, which is incredibly rare.

"Why are they not inland" this is some laughable stuff.

I'm out, this is exhausting. You have it real tough, I'll cry for you tonight.

To your credit you're trying to improve your scores, and you'll get your ITA. You being uninformed about the different pathways available to you isn't my problem.

I simply illustrate it how silly your advice of "just pack and go anywhere" sounds. Yes, it's easier to go anywhere in Canada with PGWP, but it was even easier to get a work permit and get in Canada in the first place.

I am NOT trying to imply that FSW people should just magically pack and go to study in Canada. It would be ridiculous to do so, especially when you are eligible for Canadian immigration and would've already been invited without covid mess (including, yes, CEC 75 draw and similar stuff).

So try to believe me that it's not easy to find a skilled work in Canada in a different province that just happens to have a PNP (most of which require 1 year of skilled experience or a valid job offer, which is not easy to get). It is not as difficult as finding a Canadian job outside of Canada, I agree, but it's more difficult than becoming inland through a study permit.

I am not being mean or snarky. If you truly believe that PR is easy or guaranteed to inland applicants, then why not work at becoming inland through study permit? There are many masters programs that offer free tuition or scholarships. PhD is generally funded so you don't have to pay. Becoming inland is easier than learning French. (This I truly believe).

I understand everyone's frustration at Lamda candidates because it's unfair for people to get a free pass when others worked hard. But I don't understand the "inland is guaranteed PR" mindset, because if this is really so, then why not work at becoming inland?

 

[SatNight]

if your goal is to immigrate, you should do a thorough research beforehand and plan accordingly. i dont know why it is so hard for you to understand.

and some PNP programs accept NOC level C or even D work experience. again, you should go research. if your goal is to get good life in Canada and immigrate at the same time, then i am sorry to say ee is indeed your only choice.

But that's what I'm trying to argue here. We did research. PNPs are narrow and exclude most candidates. I know requirements to almost all programs by heart. It's not as easy as it sounds.

Most are either NOC specific (where you are screwed if you are not in that NOC, and you can't just change a NOC if you are not qualified) and/or require a valid job offer (which is not easy to get). Graduate streams exist only in less than half of the provinces and all, save for Ontario, require either a job offer or working in the province already in the occupation of your study. In other words, you cannot just pack and go where you want - you need to accumulate experience somewhere, and you generally have a limited time to do so.

Also, deciding where to study or go based on current PNP criteria is a horrible advice because they change things often.

As for C and D NOC, those will indeed seem to profit soon witb TR to PR. Not all, but it seems that it will target at least some of the C occupations. I wasn't joking about "should have been a truck driver".

 

[Ultraxion]

But that's what I'm trying to argue here. We did research. PNPs are narrow and exclude most candidates. I know requirements to almost all programs by heart. It's not as easy as it sounds.

Most are either NOC specific (where you are screwed if you are not in that NOC, and you can't just change a NOC if you are not qualified) and/or require a valid job offer (which is not easy to get). Graduate streams exist only in less than half of the provinces and all, save for Ontario, require either a job offer or working in the province already in the occupation of your study. In other words, you cannot just pack and go where you want - you need to accumulate experience somewhere, and you generally have a limited time to do so.

Also, deciding where to study or go based on current PNP criteria is a horrible advice because they change things often.

As for C and D NOC, those will indeed seem to profit soon witb TR to PR. Not all, but it seems that it will target at least some of the C occupations. I wasn't joking about "should have been a truck driver".

@mushymush plz help me I really don't want to argue with this guy anymore.. so pointless its like talking to a wall

 

[SatNight]

Forgot to mention that some provinces have graduate entrepreneur streams, so maybe that's the easy one for rich inland candidates, but definitely not an option for me (and I feel I am not alone).

 

[sidou]

Nope you're not obligated. Just don't put Quebec.

why not quebec ?