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PR renewal with Humanitarian & Compassionate (H&C) Grounds - 2022

mrehanali

Member
Apr 15, 2022
12
0
Hi,
Has anybody applied for PR renewal with Humanitarian & Compassionate (H&C) Grounds due to not meeting residency obligations?
Please share your experience.

I have applied in November 2021 through an immigration lawyer and the application status is still "In Process".

Any idea of a timeline for such applications with H&C grounds?

Thanks!
 

dpenabill

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2010
6,435
3,182
Hi,
Has anybody applied for PR renewal with Humanitarian & Compassionate (H&C) Grounds due to not meeting residency obligations?
Please share your experience.

I have applied in November 2021 through an immigration lawyer and the application status is still "In Process".

Any idea of a timeline for such applications with H&C grounds?

Thanks!
There are numerous discussions about this in several topics here.

If you have an experienced, trustworthy Canadian immigration lawyer handling this AND you are IN Canada, you are probably OK in terms of keeping your PR status.

Despite how much this has been discussed here, there is no where near enough reporting about this to illuminate a probable timeline . . . even in the best of times, let alone now when all processing timelines are uncertain and non-routine processing timelines (which yours would be) are going long and longer.

While you should be OK in terms of keeping PR status (again, assuming you have a competent lawyer AND you are IN Canada), it is curious why you went ahead and made an application for a new PR card based on H&C rather than just stay and wait until you were in compliance with the Residency Obligation. Depending on how much time you have spent in Canada, and other factors, the safe approach is to STAY and WAIT, rather than take the risk of triggering a 44(1) Report by applying for a PR card. Which immigration lawyers know of course.

If you are currently NOT IN Canada, you are dependent on the expertise of your lawyer. That is a highly unusual scenario and would be a very tough case. And one the forum is not well acquainted with . . . the usual approach for a PR abroad would be to apply for a PR Travel Document based on H&C rather than make an application for a new PR card. Best I can suggest, if you are currently NOT in Canada, is to make sure you have a reputable, experienced Canadian immigration lawyer handling this.
 

zaid9199

Full Member
Sep 28, 2020
47
16
I’ll share my case with you for some idea. Came back to Canada with my family on August 2020 after over 10 years with no physical presence in Canada. We were not reported at the border. We were all planning on not renewing PR Card until 2 years have passed. My brother and I realized we can not have our SIN issued without a PR Card and decided to go ahead with a H&C renewal of PR Card on November 2020. My parents did not apply since they have their SIN and would be okay waiting 2 years + they do not have any H&C case. Decision was made around April 2021 and cards were chosen for in person pick up appointment to which we are still waiting for till this day. If I knew the wait was going to be this long I would’ve waited 2 years and applied normally, but in my opinion back then not having a SIN was a difficult obstacle so we decided to go ahead. Thankfully, the H&C appeal seems to have been accepted but the issue here is the wait; especially during these days like Mr. Dpenabill pointed out above.
 
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Tubsmagee

Hero Member
Jul 2, 2016
438
131
I’ll share my case with you for some idea. Came back to Canada with my family on August 2020 after over 10 years with no physical presence in Canada. We were not reported at the border. We were all planning on not renewing PR Card until 2 years have passed. My brother and I realized we can not have our SIN issued without a PR Card and decided to go ahead with a H&C renewal of PR Card on November 2020. My parents did not apply since they have their SIN and would be okay waiting 2 years + they do not have any H&C case. Decision was made around April 2021 and cards were chosen for in person pick up appointment to which we are still waiting for till this day. If I knew the wait was going to be this long I would’ve waited 2 years and applied normally, but in my opinion back then not having a SIN was a difficult obstacle so we decided to go ahead. Thankfully, the H&C appeal seems to have been accepted but the issue here is the wait; especially during these days like Mr. Dpenabill pointed out above.
Have you been able to find employment without a SIN or PR card? That is a long wait without pls tu of planning.
 

zaid9199

Full Member
Sep 28, 2020
47
16
Have you been able to find employment without a SIN or PR card? That is a long wait without pls tu of planning.
PR Card is not the issue for employment, you can get employed without it. The SIN is the issue and you can not legally work without it and you will be required to give it to your employer. In my case you need one to get the other. To answer your question, no I haven’t been able to be employed and it’s not possible without a SIN unless someone opts for a cash job.
 
Feb 14, 2021
14
2
I’ll share my case with you for some idea. Came back to Canada with my family on August 2020 after over 10 years with no physical presence in Canada. We were not reported at the border. We were all planning on not renewing PR Card until 2 years have passed. My brother and I realized we can not have our SIN issued without a PR Card and decided to go ahead with a H&C renewal of PR Card on November 2020. My parents did not apply since they have their SIN and would be okay waiting 2 years + they do not have any H&C case. Decision was made around April 2021 and cards were chosen for in person pick up appointment to which we are still waiting for till this day. If I knew the wait was going to be this long I would’ve waited 2 years and applied normally, but in my opinion back then not having a SIN was a difficult obstacle so we decided to go ahead. Thankfully, the H&C appeal seems to have been accepted but the issue here is the wait; especially during these days like Mr. Dpenabill pointed out above.
Glad to hear that your H&C case was considered favorably. If I may enquire, what were your H&C grounds? I am in default of my RO due to not being able to travel with an unvaccinated toddler. I am wondering if that would be sufficient. Thanks @zaid9199 !

@mrehanali - Can you also share some of your experience around the H&C application and whether you did it yourself or took someone's assistance? Thanks
 
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Eusufzai

Hero Member
Oct 30, 2009
306
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Dhaka, Bangladesh
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I’ll share my case with you for some idea. Came back to Canada with my family on August 2020 after over 10 years with no physical presence in Canada. We were not reported at the border. We were all planning on not renewing PR Card until 2 years have passed. My brother and I realized we can not have our SIN issued without a PR Card and decided to go ahead with a H&C renewal of PR Card on November 2020. My parents did not apply since they have their SIN and would be okay waiting 2 years + they do not have any H&C case. Decision was made around April 2021 and cards were chosen for in person pick up appointment to which we are still waiting for till this day. If I knew the wait was going to be this long I would’ve waited 2 years and applied normally, but in my opinion back then not having a SIN was a difficult obstacle so we decided to go ahead. Thankfully, the H&C appeal seems to have been accepted but the issue here is the wait; especially during these days like Mr. Dpenabill pointed out above.
Hi Zaid9199

Greetings! I just want to know how long did you stay in Canada when you first received your PR card? I mean during the 5 years PR tenure how long did you stay in Canada? I am in the same situation. Your case really giving me some hope and inspiration.

Best regards,

Eusufzai
 

canuck78

VIP Member
Jun 18, 2017
55,587
13,518
Glad to hear that your H&C case was considered favorably. If I may enquire, what were your H&C grounds? I am in default of my RO due to not being able to travel with an unvaccinated toddler. I am wondering if that would be sufficient. Thanks @zaid9199 !

@mrehanali - Can you also share some of your experience around the H&C application and whether you did it yourself or took someone's assistance? Thanks
You were in the US so if you preferred not to fly with a mask there was the option to drive. If you return before there is a vaccine for under 5s nothing will have changed.
 

canuck78

VIP Member
Jun 18, 2017
55,587
13,518
Hi Zaid9199

Greetings! I just want to know how long did you stay in Canada when you first received your PR card? I mean during the 5 years PR tenure how long did you stay in Canada? I am in the same situation. Your case really giving me some hope and inspiration.

Best regards,

Eusufzai
They haven’t received their PR cards.
 
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Feb 14, 2021
14
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You were in the US so if you preferred not to fly with a mask there was the option to drive. If you return before there is a vaccine for under 5s nothing will have changed.
You are 100% correct and stating a fact about my preference.
Nothing would have changed until my son is vaccinated, except covid outbreak levels and the severity of the existing covid variants.
I made my decisions for a reason. And I am trying to figure out if I can still get back to Canada and keep my PR. So the effort is on.
 

canuck78

VIP Member
Jun 18, 2017
55,587
13,518
You are 100% correct and stating a fact about my preference.
Nothing would have changed until my son is vaccinated, except covid outbreak levels and the severity of the existing covid variants.
I made my decisions for a reason. And I am trying to figure out if I can still get back to Canada and keep my PR. So the effort is on.
Levels have been pretty high and the omicron variant seems to have affected children more than other variants. During summer 2021 levels were very low, lower than current levels. If you’re going to use the argument I see some holes in the argument.
 

dpenabill

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2010
6,435
3,182
Overall: @canadabound1234 . . . in regards to "I am trying to figure out if I can still get back to Canada and keep my PR. So the effort is on."

Note: the only way to "figure" it out is to come and see how it goes, make the move and settle here, hoping to avoid being Reported, and dealing with that if it happens.

You are 100% correct and stating a fact about my preference.
Nothing would have changed until my son is vaccinated, except covid outbreak levels and the severity of the existing covid variants.
I made my decisions for a reason. And I am trying to figure out if I can still get back to Canada and keep my PR. So the effort is on.
Levels have been pretty high and the omicron variant seems to have affected children more than other variants. During summer 2021 levels were very low, lower than current levels. If you’re going to use the argument I see some holes in the argument.
Mostly a reminder: if it comes down to making an "argument," like a lawyer might present a defense to a judge or jury, that's more or less the long shot, not good odds. Moreover, just coming across as making-an-argument rather often tends to put-off law enforcement officials, and CBSA border officials are law enforcement (note, for example, even though CBSA border officials engage in immigration they are part of the Ministry of Public Safety, as in dey's da cops). Impressions matter.

It helps, and it can help a lot, to prepare and orient what a PR in breach will present (will say, and in some circumstances what supporting documents to be shown) if and when the situation at the border reaches a stage in which the traveler-PR needs to more specifically make the H&C case. And I realize it may not be clear that there is a difference between an approach that "makes" the case versus an approach that "argues" the case. But there is a real difference.

Better approach: more or less EXPLAINING one's situation, how and why the move to Canada was delayed, in simple terms focused on particular facts, and doing do so in the context of the plan to move to Canada and how it was delayed.

Save the strenuous arguments for the appeal and the IAD, if that becomes necessary, and this is better done by a lawyer who understands the art of persuasion at least as well as the lawyer understands the law, the rules, and how they work. But hope it does not go there. As I have oft reiterated, and emphasized, the best chance the PR in breach has, IF asked (no need to go into unless asked), is to be prepared to simply explain his or her story about planning to come to Canada and the reasons why that has been delayed, and hope for a waive through without any formal RO compliance examination, without any need to "make" a formal H&C case.

In this forum there is a lot of emphasis on the more or less formalities of making the H&C cases. For good reason, because ultimately that will determine the outcome if and when there is a formal RO compliance examination. So, for example, if the new, soft-landed PR whose move to Canada got delayed beyond the three year window the RO allows, was delayed because of personal financial or career decisions, the general consensus in the forum is that is not a good H&C reason (and quite a few here erroneous claim it is not a H&C reason at all). And that is true in a formal H&C assessment, and particularly so in the appeal before the IAD.

But for the PR in breach being asked questions at the Port-of-Entry regarding why they were abroad or why they did not come to Canada sooner, just honestly explaining what the plan was, how this financial or job situation affected when, in THEIR circumstances, they were ready to make the move, just saying, sort of, just doing the best I could to make this move to get to Canada to settle here, nothing fancy, just dealing with life to get here, that can go a long way (during PoE questioning) toward making-the-case to be allowed to keep PR status . . . even though it will NOT work well as an "argument."

Bringing this to Covid-19 and its variants. There seems to be some here hanging a lot on the distinction between what definitively precludes travel and what constitutes degrees of difficulty traveling. It's not just semantics. CAN NOT travel, of course, is different from CHOOSING NOT to travel because of the difficulties of traveling. The former, something that definitively stops a person from traveling, something the person has no control over, is a for-sure H&C reason that will carry a lot of weight in determining if a PR should be allowed to keep PR status despite a breach of the RO. In contrast, what amounts to a personal choice tends to have a lot less influence. But the latter can and often will carry some positive weight in favour of allowing H&C relief, and how much positive weight is variable. And for some reason there are a number of forum participants who minimize this, and more than a few who occasionally outright dismiss it.

The more difficulty involved, even if well short of a firm block from traveling, will generally carry more positive H&C weight. H&C factors are NOT yes/no calculations. They are weighed with sliding gradations, ranging from a little positive weight to a lot of positive weight. They are relative. They are highly contextual. They are not just about being humane, but they are explicitly COMPASSIONATE.

The difficulty of relocating to Canada during the last two plus years given the situation with Covid and the global pandemic is overwhelmingly obvious. So obvious it appears that this has been a huge factor in why border officials have been remarkably more lenient toward returning Canadians who have failed to meet their PR Residency Obligation.

The shade side of this, of course, is that despite more variants and sub-variants, another wave of infection, the extent of this recent leniency is bound to be declining.

The sunny side, still, is that H&C relief, and border control decisions in effect allowing affected Canadians (PRs in breach of the RO) to remain Canadians, is oriented to what is COMPASSIONATE. The system is intentionally flexible and to a significant extent lenient. But this brings things back around to the difference between presenting/making a case versus an "argument" for relief. Who deserves "compassion," at least in an informal context (like PoE screening), is not readily measured by a checklist.

I do not mean to suggest anyone rely on H&C relief. Any PR in breach of the RO is at RISK. To reduce their risk, any PR in breach should make an effort to get to Canada to settle, and STAY, as soon as practically feasible. If keeping PR status is a priority. But in regards to how to approach border officials, just explaining how it is, how the plan to come was delayed, in straight, simple, honest terms, that is generally the best one can do.
 
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Feb 14, 2021
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Fantastic advise as always @dpenabill .
I am leaning towards the same - just collecting facts and opinions to be well prepared to expect the different scenarios and have a plan to handle it.
As you know, my Canadian employer will totally expect me to travel internationally on work. So I will need to have a robust plan such that I continue to travel a few days a month even after moving to Canada. and particularly have a plan to travel after Dec 2023 when my PR card expires (but I wouldn't yet have a new PR card due to RO not met).
Currently, the only solution for that is for me to travel by road in from the US, and then get back home. Will be hard.
 

armoured

VIP Member
Feb 1, 2015
17,248
8,863
Sorry that this is completely non-functional and non-useful commentary in your particular case at this point - but I need to get it out of my system.

Your situation would be a LOT easier if you'd moved to Canada six or nine months ago.

[Hopefully this whinge of mine might someday be useful to others]
 
Feb 14, 2021
14
2
@armoured - 100% agree :) I too kick myself for it. Honestly, I am really tempted to relinquish my PR and reapply ASAP before I turn 40 next year. Decision, Decisions and Decisions :)
I appreciate you sparing a thought for me, my friend!
 
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