Working outside Canada when waiting on Citizenship

[screech339]

screech339
can I ask why intend to reside is only for PR and citizenship processing candidates. why citizens are not equally accountable for leaving Canada. I don't understand the fine line between the both. its like you are challenged during the citizenship process for intend to reside but as soon as you get citizenship you are free bird, get a protective shield from intend to reside, left unquestioned to live and work anywhere.

Once you get Canadian citizenship, you are free to leave Canada. Canada cannot stop you from leaving. Canada cannot strip you of citizenship because you left for good. Once you have Canadian citizenship, you have same rights as every Canadians (naturalized or born) to leave.

Again, the intend to reside clause is for the time between submitting your application to time you get your citizenship. They don't want PR applicants to be taking off for months at a time up to 3 years while waiting for citizenship papers to come through. Want Canadian citizenship, then stay in Canada while you are waiting. You do realize that the first step of becoming a naturalized Canadian is being PR. You cannot be naturalized without being PR first. So it makes sense that the "intend to reside" clause affect all PRs applying for citizenship.

When you get citizenship, the intend to reside clause doesn't apply anymore.

Screech339

 

[capt_ahmed]

The minister of immigration said the "intend to reside" means to remain in Canada while processing the application of citizenship, why they didn't say applicant should remain a residence of Canada during the application process and give a clear definition of residence of Canada or refer it to the income tax Act. That is his own definition but we never know how this clause will be used at the court. There is no clear legal requirements for physical presence in Canada after applying for citizenship; the bill c-24 is talking about intentions. How would they judge my intentions? What if I leave for a scholarship in USA or Europe and intend to return to Canada after finishing it? What if I take unpaid leave from my Canadian employer and go work temporary abroad in a project and still intend to return and live in Canada? What if I left my wife and kids in Canada while I am working abroad? What if I still pay Canadian tax, own property and car in Canada, have a bank account in Canada and Canadian Driver licence; Are these considered proof that I INTEND to reside in Canada or no?

The clause is fishy and I don't know how CIC officials will deal with just an intention. My advise for the OP is to keep ties in Canada as much as he can if he decides to travel and work in U.S.

 

[dpenabill]

Regarding leaving Canada to work abroad while the application is pending:

How it works under the current law is a totally separate matter from what will apply when the new residency requirements are applicable to the applicant. The so-called "intent to continue residing in Canada" provision is part of Bill C-24, and has no overt impact on any application already in process.

In particular, under the currently applicable provisions of Section 5(1) of the Citizenship Act, for purposes of calculating residency, meaning the days to be counted as present in Canada for purposes of determining whether the applicant met the citizenship residency requirement, the relevant time period is fixed as of the date the application was signed. Only absences versus presence during that four year period immediately preceding the date the application was signed are part of the calculation.

Thus, technically, time outside Canada after applying is "not relevant" to the calculation of time resident in Canada. But what that really means is that time outside Canada after applying does not directly warrant any deduction of days present from the residency calculation.

There is a reference, in a previous post above, to a brief (and I'd say superficial) observation in a blog post regarding the recent Deldedian case, in which Justice Harrington rules, and cites a similar ruling nearly a decade earlier by Justice O'Keefe (in the Shakoor case), that emphasizes that the calculation of time present in Canada is limited to the relevant four year time period immediately preceding the date the application was made. Thus, if the Citizenship Judge considers the applicant's activity and geographical location outside that period, and a reviewing judge cannot discern whether or not the CJ limited the residency calculation to the four years in issue, an appeal should be allowed and the matter returned to another CJ for redetermination. The lawyer-author of the blog cites this law below a headline that says: "DEPARTURE FROM CANADA AFTER CITIZENSHIP FILING NOT RELEVANT"

It is a mistake to interpret this to mean that leaving Canada to live and work abroad while the application is pending will not result in problems.

It may or may not, depending.

This is an issue I have discussed and explained in depth in the topic "Leaving Canada after applying," in the citizenship forum at Immigration.ca. To be clear, there is no doubt that leaving Canada after applying is relevant, that is that it matters, in at least some very big respects:
-- continued compliance with the PR residency obligation is definitively required
-- impact of extended absences on CIC's approach to processing the application: processes ranging from the issuance of RQ to the scope of collateral inquiries, perhaps even formal investigation, can be triggered by post-application absences
-- impact on the overall impression CIC and a CJ get about the applicant; the nature and duration of absences after applying will almost certainly affect the assessment of an applicant's credibility, at the least
-- for applicants extensively abroad, if there is a failure to timely respond to CIC requests for further information, or a failure to appear for a scheduled event, the application can be summarily terminated
-- potential negative credibility inferences if CIC ascertains an applicant has been living abroad without properly informing CIC of a change in address, to be considered in contrast with what happens at CIC when an applicant does properly inform CIC of a change in address to a location abroad

Bottom-line is that if CIC apprehends the applicant's post-application activity (especially living and working abroad) indicates the applicant is seeking what multiple Ministers of CIC have described as a passport-of-convenience, that at minimum is likely to elevate the extent of scrutiny, if not skepticism, and in addition to RQ perhaps trigger formal inquiries, even investigations, at the least resulting in delays in processing, potentially resulting in a residency hearing before a Citizenship Judge. Such an applicant may need to have especially well-documented residency in order to avoid a denial.

If such an applicant well-documents actual presence for 1095+ days, that will suffice. But such an applicant can anticipate CIC will go over all the evidence looking for any flaws, inconsistencies, incongruities, or gaps, and can anticipate negative inferences if any are found, with otherwise predictable consequences.

The question many have is what in particular will trigger an elevated level of scrutiny. Many applicants spend some or even a lot of time abroad after applying, without running into problems. Others run into problems. All I can offer about this is that context and all the circumstances matter. For example, if the time spent abroad is clearly temporary in nature, and the applicant's primary ties continue to be in Canada, that is far less likely to trigger suspicion (at CIC) that the applicant is seeking a passport-of-convenience. In contrast, if the applicant's spouse and children are also abroad, and were abroad extensively while the applicant claims to have been in Canada (as time to be counted toward the residency requirement), then CIC may indeed get suspicious.

In any event, again this is all discussed in depth in a topic called "Leaving Canada after applying" at the immigration.ca citizenship forum. (I have also discussed the Deldedian case in particular in multiple other topics at the immigration.ca site.)

And, again, the impact of the "intent to continue residing in Canada" provision in Bill C-24 is a separate matter, and which will dramatically increase the potential for negative inferences for any applicant who leaves Canada to live and work abroad after applying, after that provision takes effect.

 

[newcomer]

Regarding leaving Canada to work abroad while the application is pending:

How it works under the current law is a totally separate matter from what will apply when the new residency requirements are applicable to the applicant. The so-called "intent to continue residing in Canada" provision is part of Bill C-24, and has no overt impact on any application already in process.

In particular, under the currently applicable provisions of Section 5(1) of the Citizenship Act, for purposes of calculating residency, meaning the days to be counted as present in Canada for purposes of determining whether the applicant met the citizenship residency requirement, the relevant time period is fixed as of the date the application was signed. Only absences versus presence during that four year period immediately preceding the date the application was signed are part of the calculation.

Thus, technically, time outside Canada after applying is "not relevant" to the calculation of time resident in Canada. But what that really means is that time outside Canada after applying does not directly warrant any deduction of days present from the residency calculation.

There is a reference, in a previous post above, to a brief (and I'd say superficial) observation in a blog post regarding the recent Deldedian case, in which Justice Harrington rules, and cites a similar ruling nearly a decade earlier by Justice O'Keefe (in the Shakoor case), that emphasizes that the calculation of time present in Canada is limited to the relevant four year time period immediately preceding the date the application was made. Thus, if the Citizenship Judge considers the applicant's activity and geographical location outside that period, and a reviewing judge cannot discern whether or not the CJ limited the residency calculation to the four years in issue, an appeal should be allowed and the matter returned to another CJ for redetermination. The lawyer-author of the blog cites this law below a headline that says: "DEPARTURE FROM CANADA AFTER CITIZENSHIP FILING NOT RELEVANT"

It is a mistake to interpret this to mean that leaving Canada to live and work abroad while the application is pending will not result in problems.

It may or may not, depending.

This is an issue I have discussed and explained in depth in the topic "Leaving Canada after applying," in the citizenship forum at Immigration.ca. To be clear, there is no doubt that leaving Canada after applying is relevant, that is that it matters, in at least some very big respects:
-- continued compliance with the PR residency obligation is definitively required
-- impact of extended absences on CIC's approach to processing the application: processes ranging from the issuance of RQ to the scope of collateral inquiries, perhaps even formal investigation, can be triggered by post-application absences
-- impact on the overall impression CIC and a CJ get about the applicant; the nature and duration of absences after applying will almost certainly affect the assessment of an applicant's credibility, at the least
-- for applicants extensively abroad, if there is a failure to timely respond to CIC requests for further information, or a failure to appear for a scheduled event, the application can be summarily terminated
-- potential negative credibility inferences if CIC ascertains an applicant has been living abroad without properly informing CIC of a change in address, to be considered in contrast with what happens at CIC when an applicant does properly inform CIC of a change in address to a location abroad

Bottom-line is that if CIC apprehends the applicant's post-application activity (especially living and working abroad) indicates the applicant is seeking what multiple Ministers of CIC have described as a passport-of-convenience, that at minimum is likely to elevate the extent of scrutiny, if not skepticism, and in addition to RQ perhaps trigger formal inquiries, even investigations, at the least resulting in delays in processing, potentially resulting in a residency hearing before a Citizenship Judge. Such an applicant may need to have especially well-documented residency in order to avoid a denial.

If such an applicant well-documents actual presence for 1095+ days, that will suffice. But such an applicant can anticipate CIC will go over all the evidence looking for any flaws, inconsistencies, incongruities, or gaps, and can anticipate negative inferences if any are found, with otherwise predictable consequences.

The question many have is what in particular will trigger an elevated level of scrutiny. Many applicants spend some or even a lot of time abroad after applying, without running into problems. Others run into problems. All I can offer about this is that context and all the circumstances matter. For example, if the time spent abroad is clearly temporary in nature, and the applicant's primary ties continue to be in Canada, that is far less likely to trigger suspicion (at CIC) that the applicant is seeking a passport-of-convenience. In contrast, if the applicant's spouse and children are also abroad, and were abroad extensively while the applicant claims to have been in Canada (as time to be counted toward the residency requirement), then CIC may indeed get suspicious.

In any event, again this is all discussed in depth in a topic called "Leaving Canada after applying" at the immigration.ca citizenship forum. (I have also discussed the Deldedian case in particular in multiple other topics at the immigration.ca site.)

And, again, the impact of the "intent to continue residing in Canada" provision in Bill C-24 is a separate matter, and which will dramatically increase the potential for negative inferences for any applicant who leaves Canada to live and work abroad after applying, after that provision takes effect.

Welcome to this forum dpenabill ! We really need a knowledgeable member like you here !

 

[toshib]

Well when they give out the new RQ now they already ask for documentary evidence till the date of the RQ which is ofcourse after the citizenship application by months. I my brother's case he applied for citizenship on Feb 2014 but they asked him to submit documentary evidence till Sep 2014 which is the RQ Cit0520 date which was sent by mail to him they have should ask him till Feb 2014 so technically they require you now to be present in Canada at least till the date you get the RQ by mail. CIC doesn't want judges give any chances to new applicants regarding residency that's why they are giving all the decisions to the officers instead of judges .

 

[arambi]

Hi all, I have recently sent off for citizenship and my employer has asked me would i transfer to the USA for work for a year or 2.

Will this affect my application? Is it possible to have a meeting with CIC and present my case that I will be working for a Canadian company but based in USA.

Any advice is appreciated.....

Thanks

Hello Fortmacresident,
Did you accept your employer's offer to transfer to the USA for work for 2 years? If yes, was your application impacted by this transfer?

Thanks for your inputs

 

[YYZINR]

Hi all, I have recently sent off for citizenship and my employer has asked me would i transfer to the USA for work for a year or 2.

Will this affect my application? Is it possible to have a meeting with CIC and present my case that I will be working for a Canadian company but based in USA.

Any advice is appreciated.....

Thanks

Its been more than a year since your initial post. Can you let us know what happened ? I am in the same boat. Any insights will be very helpful. Pleae help out.

 

[nope]

Why is everyone saying the 'intent to reside' clause isn't in effect? I understood that it is applied for applications after June 11th. The OP says that they 'recently' sent in their application, which presumably would put it in the 'after' period.

 

[HO3]

Hi all, I have recently sent off for citizenship and my employer has asked me would i transfer to the USA for work for a year or 2.

Will this affect my application? Is it possible to have a meeting with CIC and present my case that I will be working for a Canadian company but based in USA.

Any advice is appreciated.....

Thanks

Hi;

I know somebody who just passed the test, and he was faced with Great Wall of China just because that person moved to US for a job. The CIC office spent 45 minutes just asking him about the reason for moving to US. At the end, the officer asked him to provide bunch of document and gave him 30 days to gather these documents. So, you might face similar situation. This was in Mississauga office.

 

[arambi]

Hello fellow forum members,

I finally became Canadian last week… Ceremony was great… This forum has been wonderful and I want to share some lessons learned so others can benefit from my experience

For those who don’t remember me, my application had several issues:
a. I worked in USA before landing and move back to USA with same company that brought me to Canada after submitting my application
b. During the relevant period, I was also student in USA… so I have a LOT of trips to USA
c. I landed in a province other than the province that nominated me (PNP) and received A44 report of misrepresentation (won the case before IRB).
d. I received full RQ before test.

Lessons learned:
1) Always land in the Province that nominates you. You can move afterward but be prepared to explain if asked during citizenship interview.

2) Get CBSA ICES border crossing report and, if traveling to USA a lot, get I-94 report from USA. Check all dates (along with passport stamps and other documents) and include all dates (even same day trips) in the residency calculator

3) Split family if you meet some of the RQ triggers. I did that and my family application was processed in 8 months while mine was more than double that time.

4) If you receive RQ, make sure response is well organized: I included an Index referencing each document I’m providing and related page number. My file received Decision Made less than 2 months after transfer to St Clair (typically the cemetery…)

5) If you moved to USA after applying, get ready for though questioning (somebody has referred to this as the “Great Wall of China” in a different post). You have good chance under old rules (no intent to reside). I knew I meet the letter and the spirit of the law, and that I will prevail at the end of the day.

6) Most importantly, If your file is taking too long, try to keep IRCC on their toes… remember this is a huge bureaucracy, with a lot good people, and some bad ones. Harass them, in an orderly manner, with

 ATIP requests (one month order full physical file, another month request electronic file, another month request copy of specific document such as CIT 0065 – Record of decision or FPAT document). Sometime, these requests remind them to get moving, or they will be bothered by further requests

 Case Specific Inquiry

 Try to locate the email of your MP, the IRCC Director (or other Senior IRCC official in your location), and send email to all requesting update on your file. A good friend of mine got Decision Made 1 day after sending such email out (his file was sitting with CIC for 37 months).

7) Stay busy so the wait does not affect your psych too much and know that if you file is clean (no lies), you will prevail.

On a side note, I wanted the Cons out (very bad people, not just in Canada…), and now I have the chance to vote against them. The Liberals seems to be heading in the right direction and I hope we will all vote “anything but the Cons” in all future elections until the Cons wiped out any remnant of anti-immigrant mentality within the party.
Good luck to all!!!

Timeline
Application received: Dec 2014
Processing start: March 2015
RQ received and replied to: March 2015
Test: Nov 2015
File Transfer to St Clair: Dec 2015
Decision Made: Feb 2016
Oath: May 2016

 

[arambi]

Hi;

I know somebody who just passed the test, and he was faced with Great Wall of China just because that person moved to US for a job. The CIC office spent 45 minutes just asking him about the reason for moving to US. At the end, the officer asked him to provide bunch of document and gave him 30 days to gather these documents. So, you might face similar situation. This was in Mississauga office.

Hello fellow forum members,

I finally became Canadian last week… Ceremony was great… This forum has been wonderful and I want to share some lessons learned so others can benefit from my experience

For those who don’t remember me, my application had several issues:
a. I worked in USA before landing and move back to USA with same company that brought me to Canada after submitting my application
b. During the relevant period, I was also student in USA… so I have a LOT of trips to USA
c. I landed in a province other than the province that nominated me (PNP) and received A44 report of misrepresentation (won the case before IRB).
d. I received full RQ before test.

Lessons learned:
1) Always land in the Province that nominates you. You can move afterward but be prepared to explain if asked during citizenship interview.

2) Get CBSA ICES border crossing report and, if traveling to USA a lot, get I-94 report from USA. Check all dates (along with passport stamps and other documents) and include all dates (even same day trips) in the residency calculator

3) Split family if you meet some of the RQ triggers. I did that and my family application was processed in 8 months while mine was more than double that time.

4) If you receive RQ, make sure response is well organized: I included an Index referencing each document I’m providing and related page number. My file received Decision Made less than 2 months after transfer to St Clair (typically the cemetery…)

5) If you moved to USA after applying, get ready for though questioning (somebody has referred to this as the “Great Wall of China” in a different post). You have good chance under old rules (no intent to reside). I knew I meet the letter and the spirit of the law, and that I will prevail at the end of the day.

6) Most importantly, If your file is taking too long, try to keep IRCC on their toes… remember this is a huge bureaucracy, with a lot good people, and some bad ones. Harass them, in an orderly manner, with

 ATIP requests (one month order full physical file, another month request electronic file, another month request copy of specific document such as CIT 0065 – Record of decision or FPAT document). Sometime, these requests remind them to get moving, or they will be bothered by further requests

 Case Specific Inquiry

 Try to locate the email of your MP, the IRCC Director (or other Senior IRCC official in your location), and send email to all requesting update on your file. A good friend of mine got Decision Made 1 day after sending such email out (his file was sitting with CIC for 37 months).

7) Stay busy so the wait does not affect your psych too much and know that if you file is clean (no lies), you will prevail.

On a side note, I wanted the Cons out (very bad people, not just in Canada…), and now I have the chance to vote against them. The Liberals seems to be heading in the right direction and I hope we will all vote “anything but the Cons” in all future elections until the Cons wiped out any remnant of anti-immigrant mentality within the party.
Good luck to all!!!

Timeline
Application received: Dec 2014
Processing start: March 2015
RQ received and replied to: March 2015
Test: Nov 2015
File Transfer to St Clair: Dec 2015
Decision Made: Feb 2016
Oath: May 2016