will my relatonship appear to be one of convienience?

[Mohamed_Hassan]

Hello, and thank you to anyone that may have a reply. I am hoping to get some opinions.

I am a new member and have a few questions. I think it might be worth explaining the situation to get the most out of your time and experiance.

I met my wife online in 2008, we have comunicated via e-mail,msn, skype, and text messages from then untill now. She came to Egypt in March of 2010, where we met for the first time in person. She lived in her own apartment, and we married in November. We did not live together,untill after we married. I stayed with her, but we have no proof other then saying it was so. Perhaps the landlord of the apartment would write a letter saying I did, but I was not on the contract she signed in March 2010, other then as a witness. The woman(landlord) was reluctant to rent to her(my wife) as she's not Egyptian, so that's why I signed the contract as well.

My wife returned to Canada in Feb of 2011, then came back for 2 months (October5-December9 2011), where she stayed in my family home with myself and my mother, brother and sister.

Of course during the time we were together there are no e-mails, no msn or skype chats, but lots of texts. we did take a few trips(pyramids) and go to some clubs so we have some pictures, but alot of them she is in our home, and does not have her hijab on so they are not able to be sent in to CIC.

We did not have an engagement party or wedding party, as my relatives would not aprove of our marriage. Due to the fact I cannot as of yet take full responsibility financially they would disapprove and possibly be vocal with other family and friends that I married her for a visa and or money.

There is only 2 family members outside of my parents and siblings (also my sister has recently married and her husband and his family know, and she has met my sisters husband.)that know of our marriage, and a few of my friends, (which have also been introduced to her.)

My parents are very worried and feel it would also cause some of the family to look badly towards my wife because she came here with no gaurdian.(against family/social traditions) Also they(my parents) feel if we(the family) is made to look bad (married of convience)that it will effect the likely hood of my younger siblings getting married in the futrure.


So because of all of this we do not have strong proof of our relationship and we are worried that if we apply we will be turned down.

We have applied for a TRV but were refused for it also. ties to my country was one of the reasons for that.I would have liked to be able to visit Canada to decide if I want to live there without the wait time of the PR and having to spend so much time away from my wife.

My questions are: (from the explanation of our situation) do you think we will face problems?

We plan to have our wedding party/reception in Canada, which is why wanted to get the TRV also.Would that help as proof? her wedding dress and other things, invitations,ect. no date though as we dont know when we will be there for it.

Does anyone have any suggestions?

Sorry if this seems scattered about, i am just trying to get it all so it will give a clear idea of the situation. I can see from her point of view that if someone wanted to turn these facts it can be taken negitavley, so I have no idea what to do......There is a ten year age difference(she's older).

Thank you in advance for your time and opinions....

 

[canadianwoman]

You have enough evidence: the proof of communication from your first correspondence online up till now. Both families know about the marriage. Try to get affidavits from your parents and siblings stating they know of the marriage, approve of it, and believe it is genuine. Use evidence of her trips to see you. Not having lived together before marriage is fine. In your parents' affidavit they should include the fact that when she visited after marriage she stayed with you as husband and wife in the family home. Photos of her, and you and her, with your relatives and friends are very important, as they show your relationship is known and accepted, so include photos of her in your home, with or without her hijab. Any evidence you can show of preparations for a wedding celebration in Canada can be used, but it would be better to choose a date.

 

[tim maguire]

I think you'll find they are not as suspicious as you fear they will be (I did some immigration work as an attorney in the US and the spousal interview is nothing like what you see in the movies). Even though your evidence is scant, the relationship is fairly long. You've been married 18 months--not your typical convenience marriage length.

If you have some usable photos, that would be good. But even if not--you probably have other evidence of your time together (receipts and whatnot). Good luck.

 

[Mohamed_Hassan]

Thank you for your reply.

With regards to the date of a wedding reception, how can we send invites/set a date, when we dont know when I will get to Canada? I tried to get a TRV(with the intentions of a party then), but was refused.....

As far as the pictures go, there really are not many, but we have some with family and friends. She does not feel comfortable sending any in without her hijab though, as she is uncertain who will be veiwing them.Will that pose any problems?

Thanks again

 

[CharlieD10]

You may have issues with photographs where your wife is not clearly identifiable. How is the visa officer supposed to know she's the one in the pictures, by taking your word for it? Recently there was a pronouncement that persons being administered the oath of citizenship will not be permitted to wear face coverings, as it must be clear WHO is doing WHAT. In the case of Immigration and dealing with sponsorship, I doubt they will be any more willing to accept photographs as proof of a relationship when they cannot say for sure WHO is in the photographs.

 

[Mohamed_Hassan]

Hi and thank you for your response.

I would like to just clear up the confusion with hijab vs face covering. I would guess that you thought the hijab was a burka (where only the eyes are visable).

My wife's entire face is visable while wearing her hijab, so it will be completely obvious who she is in all the photos.

The majority of our pictures together were taken in a family situation, so she was not wearing her hijab. Due to that we are reluctant to send them in.

 

[CharlieD10]

Ah, well in that case, then it should be fine to send in the photos with her in the hijab. As for not sending the ones where she isn't wearing it, remember you need to send sufficient evidence, so if you don't have a lot of photos, then put the reason for this, and send in other forms of evidence.

 

[Quince777]

Hi and thank you for your response.

I would like to just clear up the confusion with hijab vs face covering. I would guess that you thought the hijab was a burka (where only the eyes are visable).

My wife's entire face is visable while wearing her hijab, so it will be completely obvious who she is in all the photos.

The majority of our pictures together were taken in a family situation, so she was not wearing her hijab. Due to that we are reluctant to send them in.

I know a lady wearing a head scarf who went through Damascus and she didn't have any problems with that, as you could still see her face and easily identify on the pictures that it was her. Compensate for the lack of pictures with other proof as much as you can gather.

 

[Mohamed_Hassan]

thanks-again..... one more thing to ask, if you dont mind.

Any suggestions as to what other form of evidence? We are at a loss trying to get it all together. We have tons of pictures of the "sites" when she was here, and of the children and myself at christmas (2010),my father with the kids, my brother, We have some of us all together also but it just seems she was always the one taking the pictures ???

 

[mohammedm123]

by the way u can send pictures of your wife with no hijab but put them in an envlope and write a note on it about the picture that she's not wearing the hijab so please let the picture seen by a woman">>>>a alot of pple that I know did that too, I myself did that too ..So i think its works

 

[Quince777]

thanks-again..... one more thing to ask, if you dont mind.

Any suggestions as to what other form of evidence? We are at a loss trying to get it all together. We have tons of pictures of the "sites" when she was here, and of the children and myself at christmas (2010),my father with the kids, my brother, We have some of us all together also but it just seems she was always the one taking the pictures ???

You can print out your e-mails sent to each other from the beginning of relationship. I'm not sure if you can print out your phone statements with texts sent to each other (I can't do that with Canadian companies). Did you save any tickets from those travelling sites where you went together as a couple, her boarding passes, airplane tickets? Also that contract from the landloard where she was living would be good. Try to get a letter from the landloard where he can acknowledge the fact that you're a couple and that he knows you were visiting her since the time she moved in there. Each of your family member can write a letter about you two how they were introduced, later got married, etc. Maybe you can persuade your wife to give ok to include photos with no hijab in order for your immigration file to be more successful (I don't know much of your religion's laws). See what else you can find that might prove your relationship is real.

 

[missmini]

hiii the fact that some of ur relatives don't know or would not approve ur marriage might not really make any difference; Arab families r soo big, if u would want to satisfy everyone, u'llnever b married or happy; the most important is ur close family (mom, dad, siblings) and hers; try to get letters and affidavits from both sides; they will help

u don't really need to prove ur cohabitation since u apply as married not common-law; in the question where they ask if u live together before marriage u can describe all this u said here; in the cohabitation periods u can put them down there too....of course if u can get that contract witg her name and then explain about would be better

yes definately show all the evidence abt the future wedding party, preparations and explain that too....say u wanted to do it before and u didn't get the visa show proof of ur trv rejection

overall just explain everything as it is; even for the photos, u can say that the ones in the home cannot be shown because she does not wear her hijab (although photos with family r gooood proof); they understand the culture, they know before marriage u cannot really cohabitate there and even if u do, u cannot have proof, so tell the truth, explain the culture, take ur time to give sufficient details for each question; focus and put in evidence the things u have and what u don't explain why, if u tried to get it show proof of that.....u'll see at the end u can make a strong application

good luck!! (PS i don't advise a lawyer, the best who can explain ur situation is U)

 

[locolynn]

by the way u can send pictures of your wife with no hijab but put them in an envlope and write a note on it about the picture that she's not wearing the hijab so please let the picture seen by a woman">>>>a alot of pple that I know did that too, I myself did that too ..So i think its works

This is a good suggestion! The VO's are very aware of cultural norms and expectations - and will very likely respect your wife's wishes. I think it's really important to include those pictures!!

Lynn

 

[AllisonVSC]

Mohamed_Hassan,

I frequently refer applicants to the processing manual for the family class. It is a great resource for understanding what types of evidence the visa officers are looking for in the application. I recommend looking specifically at section 5.26 concerning the assessment of conjugal relationships (married, common law and conjugal partners all fall into this category).

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/resources/manuals/op/op02-eng.pdf

"The following are key elements that officers may use to establish whether a couple is in a conjugal
relationship.
a) Mutual commitment to a shared life

b) Interdependent - physically, emotionally, financially, socially
The assessment of whether two individuals are in a conjugal relationship should focus on evidence of interdependency."

The nice thing about this section of the manual is that it gives examples for each of the interdependencies. It would greatly help your app if you could provide evidence for both part A and each element of part B. If providing evidence is not possible, you can describe how you and your wife are interdependent in these key areas.

I hope you find this document helpful.

Allison

 

[Mohamed_Hassan]

Well:

I am not ecactly sure where I want to start this. I am rather disappointed with the feed back from a few people.

I am Mrs. Mohamed_Hassan, I am the one who actually wrote this thread in the first place, (but from my husbands perspective). He was worried after we had been talking of all of this so to clear our minds suggested asking all of you. we were looking for personal experiances and thoughts based on that not to have rude comments regarding my religion status or an untrained persons opinion or view of our relationship.

I was out today and have returned to find all of these comments, some helpful, others, lacking in many aspects.

I supose the first place to start is by thanking those of you who had respectful insights. So, Thank you.

The next thing is this:

@ missmini: Thank you for trying to discourage others from displaying judgemental presumtions. also, Thank you for being self eduacted. The more people in the world like you the better off we will all be

@ AllisonVSC: Thank you very much for your suggestion, we are married though and we dont require infromation regarding congual partnership, if I am wrong, I apologize, but we are applying under the spouse category.

@ pearl75: I am discouraged by your ignorance, as a Canadian, as a woman, as a Muslim, and as a human being in general. All of which I am proud to be. Your blatant disrespect and disregard towards something you so obviously know nothing about is disheartening. Perhaps I may have been unclear in my wording, however you took it far beyond, should you have actually been wanting to reply with something worth while for this instance or in the future, I suggest that you ask before shooting off your mouth.

Your comments were completely disrespectful, I am ashamed to call you (if you are or will be) a "fellow" Canadian. I just thank god you are not the VO we will be dealing with as you have presented yourself as being very close minded. your "silly comments" as you called them are far more then "silly". You have apologized to my husband and thank you for that. However, I would apreciate it if, in the future you see a post from this name, please feel free NOT to respond.

Kindly: The Hassans