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Why move to Canada when I am a US Citizen?

kwyatt75

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COPR Issued Jan 07, 2016 - Arrived in Mail Jan 21, 2016
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June 19, 2016 - FINALLY - HURRAY!!!!
This is really a post to create a place where I could post this long response without cluttering up another post on another topic. There was some surprise that someone who is a US Citizen would be trying to get PR to move to Canada. This response was meant to help explain some of my thinking about why I would choose to move to Canada.

I don't want to bash my own home country because I do still love my country and I plan to keep dual citizenship even if I eventually become a Canadian Citizen. I just don't like the direction it has taken in some ways. It isn't just political dissatisfaction but rather I fear that the great democracy that it once was is slowly being eroded into nothing more than an oligarchy. That said, I instead will focus on all of the good things about Canada and why it is superior in many ways not just to the US but also to many other industrialized countries out there. I could go on and on but just try to keep the following novel short I will only touch on a few issues here below.

Let's start with the obvious universal healthcare. While Canada is not the only industrialized country out there that has healthcare for its people, this is something we lack in the US. In fact the US is the only country that doesn't have it. Don't fool yourself about “Obamacare” either because it actually made things worse, not better. The US spends more per capita on healthcare than any other country. Even though more is spent on it, our health outcomes are not better. Canada has a higher life expectancy than the US. It isn't, as most people call it, “free" healthcare as nothing is free and it is paid for with tax dollars, but at least the tax dollars are being used for the people in that way. In Canada at least you don't have to die because you can't afford the healthcare you might need.

Canada is a much more tolerant society. This should be of great interest to those PR applicants who are from varying backgrounds. If Toronto is your destination, know that 48% of the population there is composed of immigrants of varying ethnicities. The CIC Newsletter from canadavisa.com does talk about the tolerance of the country here: http://www.cicnews.com/2015/04/canada-ranked-globally-opportunity-standout-results-tolerance-immigrants-044961.html You can note that in this article it also talks about how out of 133 countries, Canada Ranked #1 by the social progress index. Check out the article. Where our rights are slowly being eroded in the US, they are still very strong (personal rights, freedom & choice) in Canada.

I have seen it first-hand though. My wife is Mexican-American and 66% Native American (Mexican Native) and as such has a dark complexion. I am on the other side of the spectrum, very fair skinned. We have traveled all over the US and some places are great. Some places are very intolerant and we have gotten looks and/or heard negativity. Not once anywhere I have been in Canada have we ever even gotten a second glance.

Their high tolerance also probably exists because Canada is also highly educated. In fact they are the most educated per-capita in the world. More than 50% of the population has a post-secondary education. Also mentioned above this is because there is greater access to the education. Cost of secondary education there is way lower than in the US. Plus, unless you are destitute you don't qualify for grants in the US. In Canada your family can earn more and you can still get assistance. The high tolerance and education probably lend to the very true stereotype of the friendly Canadian. In my personal experience they are some of the nicest people I have ever met. It isn't just quantity of education but also quality where Canada excels. The ranking fluctuates as it does for most countries, but Canada consistently is ranked in the top 10 of all countries in the areas of math, science and reading.

Canada over all has one of the lowest crime rates in the world. It is certainly way lower than in the US. Toronto, for example has an extremely low rate despite the fact that it is the 5th largest city by population in all of North America. It holds the reputation of one of the safest cities in North America.

Canada has a more stable economy than the US. This is probably due to policies its country continues to maintain to regulate Banks and ensure protection of its people. In the US we have let the obscenely wealthy people write our laws to their benefit such that the middle class is disappearing and the rich are just getting richer. Plus, Canada doesn't meddle as much in world affairs and takes a more peaceful approach. They just don't waste millions of dollars on foreign wars like the US does. Instead they use their money on things like their own infrastructure, education of society, healthcare for the people etc, etc.

I grew up my whole life in the US and we were propagandized our whole lives to believe that we were the best nation in the world and that we are the best at everything. We are good at a lot of things and do excel in many ways. However, we could use improvement in a lot of areas too. A lot of our people are so brainwashed by this philosophy that even to suggest that maybe we could do something better is just considered being unpatriotic. In all, I like the peaceful and more socially advanced mindset of Canada. I simply think I would feel more at home in such a society. I am not obviously naïve enough to blindly believe that there aren't problems in Canada. It has its own issues just like there are different issues everywhere, but ultimately I think that for myself, I would be much happier in Canada.
 

jithesh69

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Nov 24, 2014
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AOR Received.
08-DEC-2014
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Sent with Application
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29-JAN-2015
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3rd Line Update 15th FEB 2015
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01-MAY-2015
VISA ISSUED...
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Jan 2016
kwyatt75 said:
This is really a post to create a place where I could post this long response without cluttering up another post on another topic. There was some surprise that someone who is a US Citizen would be trying to get PR to move to Canada. This response was meant to help explain some of my thinking about why I would choose to move to Canada.

I don't want to bash my own home country because I do still love my country and I plan to keep dual citizenship even if I eventually become a Canadian Citizen. I just don't like the direction it has taken in some ways. It isn't just political dissatisfaction but rather I fear that the great democracy that it once was is slowly being eroded into nothing more than an oligarchy. That said, I instead will focus on all of the good things about Canada and why it is superior in many ways not just to the US but also to many other industrialized countries out there. I could go on and on but just try to keep the following novel short I will only touch on a few issues here below.

Let's start with the obvious universal healthcare. While Canada is not the only industrialized country out there that has healthcare for its people, this is something we lack in the US. In fact the US is the only country that doesn't have it. Don't fool yourself about “Obamacare” either because it actually made things worse, not better. The US spends more per capita on healthcare than any other country. Even though more is spent on it, our health outcomes are not better. Canada has a higher life expectancy than the US. It isn't as most people “free healthcare” as nothing is free and it is paid for with tax dollars, but at least the tax dollars are being used for the people in that way. In Canada at least you don't have to die because you can't afford the healthcare you might need.

Canada is a much more tolerant society. This should be of great interest to those PR applicants who are from varying backgrounds. If Toronto is your destination, know that 48% of the population there is composed of immigrants of varying ethnicities. The CIC Newsletter from canadavisa.com does talk about the tolerance of the country here: http://www.cicnews.com/2015/04/canada-ranked-globally-opportunity-standout-results-tolerance-immigrants-044961.html You can note that in this article it also talks about how out of 133 countries, Canada Ranked #1 by the social progress index. Check out the article. Where our rights are slowly being eroded in the US, they are still very strong (personal rights, freedom & choice) in Canada.

I have seen it first-hand though. My wife is Mexican-American and 66% Native American (Mexican Native) and as such has a dark complexion. I am on the other side of the spectrum, very fair skinned. We have traveled all over the US and some places are great. Some places are very intolerant and we have gotten looks and/or heard negativity. Not once anywhere I have been in Canada have we ever even gotten a second glance.

Their high tolerance also probably exists because Canada is also highly educated. In fact they are the most educated per-capita in the world. More than 50% of the population has a post-secondary education. Also mentioned above this is because there is greater access to the education. Cost of secondary education there is way lower than in the US. Plus, unless you are destitute you don't qualify for grants in the US. In Canada your family can earn more and you can still get assistance. The high tolerance and education probably lend to the very true stereotype of the friendly Canadian. In my personal experience they are some of the nicest people I have ever met. It isn't just quantity of education but also quality where Canada excels. The ranking fluctuates as it does for most countries, but Canada consistently is ranked in the top 10 of all countries in the areas of math, science and reading.

Canada over all has one of the lowest crime rates in the world. It is certainly way lower than in the US. Toronto, for example has an extremely low rate despite the fact that it is the 5th largest city by population in all of North America. It holds the reputation of one of the safest cities in North America.

Canada has a more stable economy than the US. This is probably due to policies its country continues to maintain to regulate Banks and ensure protection of its people. In the US we have let the obscenely wealthy people write our laws to their benefit such that the middle class is disappearing and the rich are just getting richer. Plus, Canada doesn't meddle as much in world affairs and takes a more peaceful approach. They just don't waste millions of dollars on foreign wars like the US does. Instead they use their money on things like their own infrastructure, education of society, healthcare for the people etc, etc.

I grew up my whole life in the US and we were propagandized our whole lives to believe that we were the best nation in the world and that we are the best at everything. We are good at a lot of things and do excel in many ways. However, we could use improvement in a lot of areas too. A lot of our people are so brainwashed by this philosophy that even to suggest that maybe we could do something better is just considered being unpatriotic. In all, I like the peaceful and more socially advanced mindset of Canada. I simply think I would feel more at home in such a society. I am not obviously naïve enough to blindly believe that there aren't problems in Canada. It has its own issues just like there are different issues everywhere, but ultimately I think that for myself, I would be much happier in Canada.
Dear kwyatt75,

A great post and a contrary to many of us who are thinking other way around. I am in USA for the past 6 years on work visa which is getting over my may end. H1B visa is only valid for 6 years. Now comes the Green Card processing and all the wait time associated with it. Well, I got an audit on mine and its gonna take 12+ years to get my GC. Who can wait till that time? Hence the decision to apply for Canada thinking this will open gates back to USA. Having said that, I know from folks who have migrated to Canada that they loved living there so much that they never came back. Might be the case with many.

Some pros and cons of USA & Canada:

Opportunities are more in USA especially in IT field compared to Canada
Salaries are much better in USA than Canada
Health care and education is better in Canada
Canada has a more laid back atmosphere and family life is better in Canada

Hoping for the best and all the best to you as well!!!
 

kwyatt75

Hero Member
Apr 6, 2015
353
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TEXAS
Category........
Visa Office......
CPC-Ottawa
NOC Code......
2263
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
December 24, 2014
Doc's Request.
June 02, 2015 (MR, RPRF, & PCC for Spouse)
Nomination.....
N/A
AOR Received.
PER - March 22, 2015
IELTS Request
Sent w/Application: L-8.5, R-9.0, W-9.0, S-8.5
File Transfer...
N/A
Med's Request
June 02, 2015
Med's Done....
June 19, 2015; TLU (Medical results have been received): July 20, 2015
Interview........
N/A
Passport Req..
Not Required as I was a US Citizen
VISA ISSUED...
COPR Issued Jan 07, 2016 - Arrived in Mail Jan 21, 2016
LANDED..........
June 19, 2016 - FINALLY - HURRAY!!!!
jithesh69 said:
Now comes the Green Card processing and all the wait time associated with it. Well, I got an audit on mine and its gonna take 12+ years to get my GC. Who can wait till that time?
Wow! :eek: That is a crazy long wait! You could have a young child (6 years old) grow up and move away in that time. No wonder many give up and/or look elsewhere. I don't know if you are familiar with this meme...& not to make light of the horrible situation but:



jithesh69 said:
But some pros and cons of USA vs Canada:

Opportunities are more in USA especially in IT field compared to Canada
Yeah, I can see that. If you can't find a job in your field, as good as a place is, you can't live without a job.

jithesh69 said:
Salaries are much better in USA than Canada
Maybe in IT, but it depends on the field. I think it varies by profession. My wife is a secondary teacher by profession. Teachers make way less and get a lot less benefits in the US than in Canada. For example, thanks to cut-backs in education here my wife is struggling to find a job. Right now she is substitute teaching (as a certified teacher) and makes $100/day. In Canada she'd be making $200/day as a substitute. As a regular teacher, based on what I've seen she would probably be making double in Canada.

jithesh69 said:
Canada has a more laid back atmosphere and family life is better in Canada
There certainly does seem to be a better work-life balance there.

jithesh69 said:
Hoping for the best and all the best to you as well!!!
Thanks for your response! I hope the same for you my friend!
 

ttrajan

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Weather wise USA is better than canada. Winter is brutally cold in Canada. Also job opportunities are more in USA. Here most of my friends are jobless now due to slump in oil price. Most of the oil and gas engg companies are laying off people here. Situation is very bad in Alberta now.
 

jithesh69

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ttrajan said:
Weather wise USA is better than canada. Winter is brutally cold in Canada. Also job opportunities are more in USA. Here most of my friends are jobless now due to slump in oil price. Most of the oil and gas engg companies are laying off people here. Situation is very bad in Alberta now.
Yes, I agree ttrajan...but not all places...I am in one of the coldest places in USA - Milwaukee...2013 was brutal here...with the artic blasts and severe sub zero temperatures :(
 

kwyatt75

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Apr 6, 2015
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December 24, 2014
Doc's Request.
June 02, 2015 (MR, RPRF, & PCC for Spouse)
Nomination.....
N/A
AOR Received.
PER - March 22, 2015
IELTS Request
Sent w/Application: L-8.5, R-9.0, W-9.0, S-8.5
File Transfer...
N/A
Med's Request
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VISA ISSUED...
COPR Issued Jan 07, 2016 - Arrived in Mail Jan 21, 2016
LANDED..........
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ttrajan said:
Weather wise USA is better than canada. Winter is brutally cold in Canada.
jithesh69 said:
Yes, I agree ttrajan...but not all places...I am in one of the coldest places in USA - Milwaukee...2013 was brutal here...with the artic blasts and severe sub zero temperatures :(
I think it does depend on where you are at. I am from South Texas where it is frequently can be over 100˚F (38˚C) in the hot months (about 6 months of the year). Believe me it is miserable. My brother-in-law who was also from here moved to Milwaukee a couple of years ago so he's been going through those brutal winters there. I think he is tired of it now. He doesn't miss the summer heat down here though. Summers there are awesome in Milwaukee. It has been colder than usual the past two years...even all the way down here. We have actually had a winter for a change. Our average lows in the winter are around 50˚F (10.5˚C). It has been colder than that this year. I think you can be miserable in excessive heat or cold. Unless you find an area that has pretty moderate temperature year round (like Hawaii) you are going to have to deal with weather issues no matter where you go. Maybe the grass is just greener on the other side, but I'd prefer cold to heat. When it is cold, you bundle up...add another layer. When you are hot, there are only so many clothes you can take off. ;D
 

Gogia

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Toronto is best city to live in all way... Of course Canada is number one country in world to live, work, enjoy life, prosperity, great education and health, system, no doubt in it, America is way back in these things, financial structure and foreign policy in USA is garbage, America has no comparisons in these thing, they are way behind in these things, then Canada, their is no benefit to middle class or low class families in America they r living below poverty line, miserable life for these people's trust me.
 

Phu_Kang

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Thanks for sharing with us, kwyaat. :)
I have cousin that study in Michigan, he said that he still looking for job opportunity in Canada.
 

steaky

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polara69 said:
No it is not..hahaha..Vancouver is.. much better weather, scenery, less populated etc etc.
According to a recent study, both Toronto and Vancouver are the least happiest cities to live in. ;D
 

ttrajan

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Which place is good? Alberta?
 

newtone

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1) High cost of living
2) High taxes
3) High insurance rates
4) Low paid jobs
5) Salary does not increase relative to cost of living
6) High unemployment rate
7) Racial stereotypes and practices when hiring
8 ) Red tape bureaucracy on local, municipal and federal level.
9) No manufacturing industries
10) Depending on city and province, ridiculous rules that equate to policing the public at large ( li.e new sex ed curriculum lets teach kids about masturbation and sex, cannot go over 50km/h of speed limit, cannot smoke 7 feet of entrance to a store, racial profiling by cops)
11) Harboring low and high profile criminals

Please go over the following links which I hope you'll find very useful:

Canada's race problem? It's even worse than America's.
http://www.macleans.ca/news/canada/out-of-sight-out-of-mind-2/

Welcome to Winnipeg: Where Canada's racism problem is at its worst
http://www.macleans.ca/news/canada/welcome-to-winnipeg-where-canadas-racism-problem-is-at-its-worst/

10 Things You Might Not Know About Poverty In Canada
http://www.cbc.ca/strombo/news/10-things-you-might-not-know-about-poverty-in-canada

Ontario parents opposed to sex ed changes threaten to pull kids from school
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/ontario-parents-opposed-to-sex-ed-changes-threaten-to-pull-kids-from-school-1.3059455

What Ontario students will learn in new sex-ed classes
http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2015/02/23/what-ontarios-students-will-learn-with-the-updated-sex-education-curriculum.html

Renowned ‘Nazi hunter' says Canada still a haven for scores of war criminals who will likely never face justice
http://news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/na0623-nazis
 

kwyatt75

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Apr 6, 2015
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Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
December 24, 2014
Doc's Request.
June 02, 2015 (MR, RPRF, & PCC for Spouse)
Nomination.....
N/A
AOR Received.
PER - March 22, 2015
IELTS Request
Sent w/Application: L-8.5, R-9.0, W-9.0, S-8.5
File Transfer...
N/A
Med's Request
June 02, 2015
Med's Done....
June 19, 2015; TLU (Medical results have been received): July 20, 2015
Interview........
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Passport Req..
Not Required as I was a US Citizen
VISA ISSUED...
COPR Issued Jan 07, 2016 - Arrived in Mail Jan 21, 2016
LANDED..........
June 19, 2016 - FINALLY - HURRAY!!!!
steaky said:
According to a recent study, both Toronto and Vancouver are the least happiest cities to live in. ;D
Actually that study lists the 25 happiest cities in Canada. While Toronto and Vancouver are near the bottom (#23 & 24 respectively), they are still in the top 25.

http://globalnews.ca/news/1081134/25-happiest-cities-in-canada/

Besides that, you can't go wrong in Canada...in terms of happy ranking in global standings Canada is #6. The US ranks #17.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/canada-ranks-6th-in-global-happiness-survey-1.1702281
 

kwyatt75

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Apr 6, 2015
353
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Category........
Visa Office......
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2263
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Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
December 24, 2014
Doc's Request.
June 02, 2015 (MR, RPRF, & PCC for Spouse)
Nomination.....
N/A
AOR Received.
PER - March 22, 2015
IELTS Request
Sent w/Application: L-8.5, R-9.0, W-9.0, S-8.5
File Transfer...
N/A
Med's Request
June 02, 2015
Med's Done....
June 19, 2015; TLU (Medical results have been received): July 20, 2015
Interview........
N/A
Passport Req..
Not Required as I was a US Citizen
VISA ISSUED...
COPR Issued Jan 07, 2016 - Arrived in Mail Jan 21, 2016
LANDED..........
June 19, 2016 - FINALLY - HURRAY!!!!
newtone said:
1) High cost of living
It depends on where you live. There are higher and lower cost of living areas in the US and elsewhere.

newtone said:
2) High taxes
Yes, the taxes are higher than in some places in the US, that is for sure. But as far as I can tell you actually get some benefit from your tax dollars...the money comes back to you or the community in some way: ex: healthcare, infrastructure, education, etc...

In the US it goes mostly to the war machine & then they want to cut benefits to veterans, elderly, etc, etc.

newtone said:
3) High insurance rates
I have recently read up on that and have seen that it does appear vehicle insurance rates at least are considerably higher. Not sure why.

4) Low paid jobs
There are lower and higher paying jobs everywhere. The minimum wage ranges from $10.20/hr. in Alberta to 11/hr. in Ontario. In the US the minimum wage in my home state of Texas is 7.25/hr. (The lowest federally allowed for any state) The highest is 9.50/hr. in Washington, DC. They can pay you less in some professions like waiters/waitresses because of tips. It also depends on what job you are in. My wife who is a teacher would be getting paid nearly double in Canada what she can make in the US.

newtone said:
5) Salary does not increase relative to cost of living
Really? I'd be willing to bet that a people who live in higher cost of living areas have jobs that pay more. Some jobs probably don't though...it is the same in the US.

newtone said:
6) High unemployment rate
It fluctuates...sometimes it is higher in Canada sometimes it is higher in the US. Right now I do believe it is about 1.3% higher in Canada.

newtone said:
7) Racial stereotypes and practices when hiring
I can't speak to this as I have not been there to see it but given that Canada is more tolerant I would imagine it isn't as bad as in the US. I'm sure it does happen though. It probably is better/worse in some locations just as it is in the US.

newtone said:
8 ) Red tape bureaucracy on local, municipal and federal level.
I highly doubt the red tape could be worse than in the US.


newtone said:
9) No manufacturing industries
This I don't believe for a minute. If you think it is bad in Canada, it is worse in the US. All of our manufacturing has gone overseas...some to Canada, thanks to NAFTA. Much more to other places such as Mexico and China.

newtone said:
10) Depending on city and province, ridiculous rules that equate to policing the public at large ( li.e new sex ed curriculum lets teach kids about masturbation and sex, cannot go over 50km/h of speed limit, cannot smoke 7 feet of entrance to a store, racial profiling by cops)
I know nowhere is perfect and I don't claim Canada is either. Let me tell you though...from what I can see, Canada is maintaining its freedoms much more than we are here in the US. Case in point...the parents protesting the sex ed curriculum. At least they can still protest in Canada and have it matter. If we protest here in the US anymore we are branded as "domestic terrorists". Smoking rules are here in the US too. There are few places anymore it is allowed. Speed limits I saw when I have been in Canada are more like 90 km/h. Racial profiling but let me tell you, I'm sure it is way worse here in the US.

newtone said:
11) Harboring low and high profile criminals
Hmmm. Really?


newtone said:
Please go over the following links which I hope you'll find very useful:

Canada's race problem? It's even worse than America's.
http://www.macleans.ca/news/canada/out-of-sight-out-of-mind-2/

Welcome to Winnipeg: Where Canada's racism problem is at its worst
http://www.macleans.ca/news/canada/welcome-to-winnipeg-where-canadas-racism-problem-is-at-its-worst/

10 Things You Might Not Know About Poverty In Canada
http://www.cbc.ca/strombo/news/10-things-you-might-not-know-about-poverty-in-canada
Ok. So there appears to be a problem with Aboriginal relations. The Canadian Government needs to work on improving that. We have similar issues in the US...plus other races as well.

newtone said:
Ontario parents opposed to sex ed changes threaten to pull kids from school
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/ontario-parents-opposed-to-sex-ed-changes-threaten-to-pull-kids-from-school-1.3059455

What Ontario students will learn in new sex-ed classes
http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2015/02/23/what-ontarios-students-will-learn-with-the-updated-sex-education-curriculum.html
Not sure what point you are trying to make here. The second link seems to show a fairly reasonable age-appropriate schedule. However, the good thing about a free society is that as mentioned earlier, parents can protest and have their voices heard about it.

newtone said:
Renowned ‘Nazi hunter' says Canada still a haven for scores of war criminals who will likely never face justice
http://news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/na0623-nazis
It is terrible that sometimes injustices occur. It happens everywhere. Actually they should just extradite them instead of trying them in Canada. In reality Nazis fled to many places...a lot went to Argentina, Mexico, and even the US. I'm sure that there are many who were never brought to justice. Heck, the US even took on a lot of their scientists...that's how we developed a rocket program and a space program. The Soviets did the same thing picking up Nazi scientists to go up against us in the space race.

Thanks for sharing...these are things to consider.