Who else is scared and frustrated about lack of CEC draws?

[AndyUK]

I guess assimilation costs are higher for those who directly land, as opposed to those who become a PR after already studying or working here temporarily. For instance, in all provinces there is a settlement and integration program providing services for newcomers. While these are very useful, they are also an outflow of government funds. Temporary residents are already settled here. They integrated mostly by themselves during studies or work, and usually don't need these programs as they're already working in the country.

That's my point exactly - are people just guessing or repeating what someone else have said or are there actually 'assimilation costs' (what does it even mean?). Please don't take it as an attack on you - I'm just genuinely interested, as my base for this question is my personal experience.

I moved from Poland to the UK and I don't see how I was a 'cost' to the system back then any more than I am now after 17 years of living, studying, and working here.

Now I'm planning my move to Canada and again, I don't see what costs I may create for the system. I had a quick look at the programs and services for the newcomers but so far I can't see how they're any more beneficial that information I can find on forums, YouTube, countless immigration websites, etc. I know how to write Canadian-style CV/resume, open bank account, get SIN, change driving licence, where to look for jobs, etc.

So, are there any additional services being provided which I'm missing out on? Or is it just the basic stuff described above, which everyone can find for free on the internet and therefore there's no need for those services in the first place?

 

[SatNight]

Honestly? The "assimilation costs" sound more like a conservative scary words than a reality. There is this idea that the country is giving a lot of money to immigrants (code word for "non-white people") when it should care for "real Canadians" ("white people"). This is untrue. I am not blaming anyone in this post for thinking there are costs, but I don't know of any big government programs aimed at giving money to new immigrants. There might be some symbolic help (?) but most of the things I've seen is in the form of (useless) advice, or coming from private companies, like banks offering specific types of accounts to new immigrants.

There are no rights that new PR have that citizens don't. And I don't know of any specific programs that only new immigrants are eligible for, vs citizens and vs people who immigrated through study permits and temporary working. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

I know there are financial incentives for buying a first apartment or house in Canada, but these are available to anyone who is a PR or citizen.

I do think CEC candidates have an advantage in the eyes of the immigration because we already demonstrated that we can adapt to Canada: we prove that we can find a skilled job in Canada (which FSW didn't demonstrate yet), and that we know how to navigate everyday life, culture, etc. This is why CEC are given more points than FSW.

But I don't think new, overseas immigrants are a burden to the system compared to us (?) Plus, I think we also count as new immigrants when we get PR, so any (theoretical) program that might exist is also available to us, because before PR, we were temporary workers and that's not the same as an immigrant.

 

[AndyUK]

Yep, that's pretty much how I see it too. I was just wondering if I'm missing something.

 

[GandiBaat]

I guess assimilation costs are higher for those who directly land, as opposed to those who become a PR after already studying or working here temporarily. For instance, in all provinces there is a settlement and integration program providing services for newcomers. While these are very useful, they are also an outflow of government funds. Temporary residents are already settled here. They integrated mostly by themselves during studies or work, and usually don't need these programs as they're already working in the country.

Okay, so in any operation there is a fixed cost and a running cost. Running cost of these services is not very high as many people involved in them are volunteers themselves. In canada, volunteership is an important skill development opportunity. It saves money for governmnet and it gives useful experience to volunteers which they use in job hunting.

Fixed cost is pretty much already paid.

 

[GandiBaat]

Those programs are useless. If that's a big percentage of yearly budge, Canadian government can scrap them. Youtube and reddit are much better resources.

I sort of disagree. Youtube and reddit are very centric to english speaking, youngish (younger than 55) crowd. Canada has a fairly large family immigration program. Not to mention refugee program too. Together they are about 2/3rd the size of economic immigration ( 190K vs 301K for 2024 level). Thats a fairly large piece of immigration pie and they are the people least likely to get familiar with their new surrounding using internet etc. "assimilation" does not means changing a person culturally etc. It also means updating them to canadian laws.

Things like driving license. If you immigrate, you should get a L5 driving license at earliest because you might be able to claim driving experience abroad.
Things like SIN number.
Things like provincial health plan and (in past) its exclusions.

So I doubt "assimilation" services can be reduced in any meaningful way. Canada takes in too many people who can not be expected to "assimilate" by themselves.

 

[cz999]

That's my point exactly - are people just guessing or repeating what someone else have said or are there actually 'assimilation costs' (what does it even mean?). Please don't take it as an attack on you - I'm just genuinely interested, as my base for this question is my personal experience.

I moved from Poland to the UK and I don't see how I was a 'cost' to the system back then any more than I am now after 17 years of living, studying, and working here.

Now I'm planning my move to Canada and again, I don't see what costs I may create for the system. I had a quick look at the programs and services for the newcomers but so far I can't see how they're any more beneficial that information I can find on forums, YouTube, countless immigration websites, etc. I know how to write Canadian-style CV/resume, open bank account, get SIN, change driving licence, where to look for jobs, etc.

So, are there any additional services being provided which I'm missing out on? Or is it just the basic stuff described above, which everyone can find for free on the internet and therefore there's no need for those services in the first place?

Totally agree with what all you guys were saying, but just FYI I recently found out there is free Canoo access for new PR and citizens which is actually useful, and it includes a free yearly national park pass as well ($145). That’s probably gonna be all that I will be using for ‘new immigrant services’.

 

[Deleted member 1083629]

repeating what someone else have said

Mostly this. Paired up with "we pay taxes, thus we deserve special treatment".

had a quick look at the programs and services for the newcomers but so far I can't see how they're any more beneficial that information I can find on forums, YouTube, countless immigration websites, etc. I know how to write Canadian-style CV/resume, open bank account, get SIN, change driving licence, where to look for jobs, etc.

Cuz they ain't. It's a workshop that is run by people that out of touch with reality. The information they provide you with you can find on this forum, Reddit, YT (I like YT less out of all of the options).

 

[Deleted member 1083629]

There might be some symbolic help (?) but most of the things I've seen is in the form of (useless) advice, or coming from private companies, like banks offering specific types of accounts to new immigrants.

That's pretty much it.

 

[Deleted member 1083629]

Youtube and reddit are very centric to english speaking

Someone who is immigrating to Canada should speak English or French. Both options are available on both reddit and YT.

Not to mention refugee program too

They have their own services. I know my friend from Ukraine who came to Canada had access to list of companies who were prioritizing hiring Ukrainians.

Things like driving license. If you immigrate, you should get a L5 driving license at earliest because you might be able to claim driving experience abroad.

Sure. Except that information I learnt from Reddit and NOT from a class that I attended. I learnt nothing over there. As a matter of fact, I got some incorrect information that I knew only because I was a student here.

So I doubt "assimilation" services can be reduced in any meaningful way. Canada takes in too many people who can not be expected to "assimilate" by themselves.

Can easily be reduced. Those services can be limited to refugees. Anyone who is a "Skilled Worker" can Google and learn what to do during the first couple of weeks. Heck, even Kubeir has "what to do" video. I am sure there is a similar video in one's native language.

Regardless, "assimilation" costs should not be an argument in CEC vs. FSW. CEC are already heavily prioritized through points. If someone who spent years in Canada, studied in English, communicated with Canadians cannot score well on IELTS/CELPIP, then it's on them. There is no rule in IRCC playbook that states: "Pay for diploma, get PR". And I am saying it as someone who graduated from Canadian university with Masters.

 

[Economist9]

That's my point exactly - are people just guessing or repeating what someone else have said or are there actually 'assimilation costs' (what does it even mean?). Please don't take it as an attack on you - I'm just genuinely interested, as my base for this question is my personal experience.

I moved from Poland to the UK and I don't see how I was a 'cost' to the system back then any more than I am now after 17 years of living, studying, and working here.

Now I'm planning my move to Canada and again, I don't see what costs I may create for the system. I had a quick look at the programs and services for the newcomers but so far I can't see how they're any more beneficial that information I can find on forums, YouTube, countless immigration websites, etc. I know how to write Canadian-style CV/resume, open bank account, get SIN, change driving licence, where to look for jobs, etc.

So, are there any additional services being provided which I'm missing out on? Or is it just the basic stuff described above, which everyone can find for free on the internet and therefore there's no need for those services in the first place?

To each, their own. However, for the phrase in bold: when I said "I guess", I didn't mean that I'm literally guessing. That is a common phrase I generally use to begin sentences.

As for costs, it's clear why IRCC is now focusing on those who are already temporary residents. Such people have already integrated into the labour market, found jobs and yes, paying taxes.

The only thing they need is the stamp of PR on paper. Otherwise, they are already doing what an immigrant will have to do, after coming in from outside. Labour market integration is indeed a thing, talked about by IRCC for pages on their website, which temporary residents have already demonstrated.

And I'm saying this as someone with a perfect IELTS score and a Master's from a Canadian Public University. Just because each person will want to advocate for their own needs, people in this forum automatically assume that CEC folks can't score well in IELTS.

The reality is there is enormous uncertainty now even for people who have been well-established here for years. Now one needs an LMIA, which is predominantly issued for food service and hospitality occupations, as seen on the open data portal listing employers with LMIAs.

 

[Deleted member 1083629]

it's clear why IRCC is now focusing on those who are already temporary residents.

Are they? I haven't seen anything hinting that they focus on "temporary residents". I thought that is the whole point of this thread and major source of complaints from "tax payers"

Otherwise, they are already doing what an immigrant will have to do, after coming in from outside.

Of course. The only thing they are NOT doing is that they are not bringing a new stream of revenue for Canada. Why do you think Canada keeps ramping up immigration numbers?

And I'm saying this as someone with a perfect IELTS score and a Master's from a Canadian Public University. Just because each person will want to advocate for their own needs, people in this forum automatically assume that CEC folks can't score well in IELTS.

I am sure that you implied me in this sentence. I got a surprise for you. Just because you and I scored well on IETLS doesn't mean that bunch of other CECs would do the same. Why? Oh that's very easy. They don't integrate with Canadian society. I was a part-time TA at Conestoga and saw many, many, many foreign students. 99% of projects I checked (the final report) had so many grammatical and phonetical mistakes that I thought they were written by kids; I am not even talking about the fact that 99% of those projects were copy-pasted from each other (yes, I complaint about it. Yes, I was told to shut up as they bring money). That's what happens when you live with others from the same country, hang out with others from the same country and etc.

The reality is there is enormous uncertainty now even for people who have been well-established here for years.

Welcome to another financial crisis. Buckle up as it is going to be a fun ride. FAANG just fired roughly 40000 people in just 1 week. Others will follow. Majority of Canadian cool startups won't last and will go belly up by the end of this year. However, that's not a fault of FSWs. Focusing on CEC won't really matter this year as many will lose their jobs and won't be able to get those points. Losing the jobs also means that many will start claiming EI benefits and not contribute any taxes. So, yes, sorry to say that. If 2021 was a year of CEC and CEC only, 2023 will be mostly the year of outsiders. As someone who is living in Canada, I am not a huge fan of this approach either but it's not like PM would ask me for an opinion.

 

[tokyotsui]

First of all, I admit that IRCC should be more transparent in communicating with applicants or candidates about their future plans.

Immigration is a privilege not a right. To be honest no one forces anyone to do anything. When I choose to immigrate I am ready for anything including failure and have to return to my home country. I will do the best I can and if there is something unfortunate happens (like the pandemic) which causes disruptions to plans, that's God's will.

For anyone who is planning to immigrate to Canada I need to say studying in Canada, even working in Canada, does not grant you PR. They will dramatically increase the chance, indeed.

I obtained my bachelor's in the US and none of my international student schoolmates thought this would grant them green card. Canada is very generous in issuing PRs (IMO the best policy you can find among the Five Eyes) that does not mean Canada must grant someone PR because they <<insert reasons here>>.

 

[Deleted member 1083629]

First of all, I admit that IRCC should be more transparent in communicating with applicants or candidates about their future plans.

Immigration is a privilege not a right. To be honest no one forces anyone to do anything. When I choose to immigrate I am ready for anything including failure and have to return to my home country. I will do the best I can and if there is something unfortunate happens (like the pandemic) which causes disruptions to plans, that's God's will.

For anyone who is planning to immigrate to Canada I need to say studying in Canada, even working in Canada, does not grant you PR. They will dramatically increase the chance, indeed.

I obtained my bachelor's in the US and none of my international student schoolmates thought this would grant them green card. Canada is very generous in issuing PRs (IMO the best policy you can find among the Five Eyes) that does not mean Canada must grant someone PR because they <<insert reasons here>>.

You are my favorite CEC ever. Seriously. It's the first time I have read such a realistic point of view from CEC candidate.

 

[tokyotsui]

First of all, I admit that IRCC should be more transparent in communicating with applicants or candidates about their future plans.

Immigration is a privilege not a right. To be honest no one forces anyone to do anything. When I choose to immigrate I am ready for anything including failure and have to return to my home country. I will do the best I can and if there is something unfortunate happens (like the pandemic) which causes disruptions to plans, that's God's will.

For anyone who is planning to immigrate to Canada I need to say studying in Canada, even working in Canada, does not grant you PR. They will dramatically increase the chance, indeed.

I obtained my bachelor's in the US and none of my international student schoolmates thought this would grant them green card. Canada is very generous in issuing PRs (IMO the best policy you can find among the Five Eyes) that does not mean Canada must grant someone PR because they <<insert reasons here>>.

Multiple friends of mine took more than a decade just to immigrate to the US. One lined up in the family sponsorship queue when she’s 8 and got PR at 20. One finally got the “H1B lottery” in his third attempt (last one if you’re majoring in STEM and timed well, most people just have one chance). Temporary workers in the US need to find a new job asap when they’re laid off or will lose status. Old classmate has been working for a small US company with little raise since 2016 just wants to keep her H1B and is still waiting for the decision on her green card application. Much more people I know have left US because there’s no way for them to stay legally. I have never heard anyone complained about raising H1B quota etc. Yes they did pay taxes in the US.

I think I’m blessed to be able to apply for PR in Canada by just following the rules. My plan was also greatly disrupted by the pandemic like everyone else.

 

[AndyUK]

To each, their own. However, for the phrase in bold: when I said "I guess", I didn't mean that I'm literally guessing. That is a common phrase I generally use to begin sentences.

As for costs, it's clear why IRCC is now focusing on those who are already temporary residents. Such people have already integrated into the labour market, found jobs and yes, paying taxes.

I think you misunderstood me. The main point of my post was just a question - are there really any services (costs for the system) for new arrivals (I'll be one soon so I'm genuinely interested if I missed something) or are those 'costs' just something people keep repeating but it's something that doesn't actually exist?

I take your point that TRs who are already in Canada demonstrated their ability to find jobs - that's fair enough. But this doesn't automatically mean that a newcomer is a cost to the system. The whole point is that all newcomers must bring money to support themselves so they're actually contributing to the economy, unless of course their money runs out and they still cannot find a job - then it becomes an issue.

I suppose I would agree with a statement that every newcomer to Canada is a bigger risk to the system as they're more of an unknown than someone who's already been there for a few years, but with every risk comes an opportunity - if they establish themselves successfully in Canada, then they become a new source of revenue for the government - a new tax payer, unlike a person who's already in Canada and already paying taxes.

Hope this makes sense Just trying to look at it from both sides.