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When is hiring an immigration lawyer recommended ?

ahmadka

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I'm just getting into thinking about applying for Express Entry, and I'm wondering if I need to hire a lawyer or not, just to make things easier/safer/more understandable.

Normally I imagine people probably do all the stuff on their own after getting unofficial advice here on the forums, but my specific case will be a bit different. I'm currently in Pakistan (a Pakistani citizen), however I plan to go to the US in August this year for pursuing a Masters degree. My aim is to settle in Canada after graduating in 1-2 years. But I want to submit at least my Express Entry profile now, within the next 1-2 months before leaving Pakistan.

So is it recommendable that I hire a lawyer ? If yes, does it make more sense to hire one in Canada or US (although I imagine that would be more expensive), than one who is in Pakistan ?
 

dragon17Sky

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ahmadka said:
I'm just getting into thinking about applying for Express Entry, and I'm wondering if I need to hire a lawyer or not, just to make things easier/safer/more understandable.

Normally I imagine people probably do all the stuff on their own after getting unofficial advice here on the forums, but my specific case will be a bit different. I'm currently in Pakistan (a Pakistani citizen), however I plan to go to the US in August this year for pursuing a Masters degree. My aim is to settle in Canada after graduating in 1-2 years. But I want to submit at least my Express Entry profile now, within the next 1-2 months before leaving Pakistan.

So is it recommendable that I hire a lawyer ? If yes, does it make more sense to hire one in Canada or US (although I imagine that would be more expensive), than one who is in Pakistan ?
Lawyer have experience submitting application, making mistakes and learning from them, that definitely gives you an advantage if you hire them, because it is their area of expertise.
But if you are confident enough that you can collect all the documents needed to submit an application without any compromises then I would suggest you to go ahead and don't waste tons on money on lawyers.
 

rajanvnv

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I would highly recommend you to invest time and do things on your own as you would have a sense of satisfaction and you will put the best foot forward when you do all by yourself. Just in case if you decide to go for lawyer, then it's better you go with a canadian lawyer.
 

Lammawitch

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rajanvnv said:
I would highly recommend you to invest time and do things on your own as you would have a sense of satisfaction and you will put the best foot forward when you do all by yourself. Just in case if you decide to go for lawyer, then it's better you go with a canadian lawyer.
+1. Also read what CIC says about choosing a representative:
http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/information/representative/rep-who.asp
 

dragon17Sky

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rajanvnv said:
I would highly recommend you to invest time and do things on your own as you would have a sense of satisfaction and you will put the best foot forward when you do all by yourself. Just in case if you decide to go for lawyer, then it's better you go with a canadian lawyer.
+1 for the phrase "sense of satisfaction"
 

ahmadka

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I agree to the satisfaction factor, that sure must be very pleasing.

However I don't want to get a rejection or something simply because I made some mistake somewhere accidentally. If however CIC normally tells you about the mistake and gives you a chance to fix it, rather than just rejecting you, then I might feel more confident in doing it all myself.

Secondly, I have a friend who filled for immigration a year or so ago through a lawyer (before EE was introduced). According to the rules CIC should have processed his application according to the old rules, but very recently his application got denied and he was asked to file again through Express Entry. The lawyer has now filed a class action lawsuit against CIC because he believes that CIC is in the wrong here, and this was only possible because the lawyer had committed to my friend earlier on that if CIC messes up, he will handle it himself, which he is now doing. So my point is, having a lawyer has proven to be better for my friend in his scenario, even though whether or not CIC considers his older application or not.

As I'll be moving countries during the process, I'm for some reason feeling that something might mess up somewhere, either on my part or on CIC's part :p
 

spyfy

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Sorry for the long post following, but I think you have a similar mindset than me so I think this is helpful.

Having a lawyer can be a good thing but it can also make things worse. Here's my experience:

I was pretty "PR-Application-Literate" when I first decided that I want to apply in 2014 (For the last round of FSW-paper-applications based on NOC caps) and I had thoughts similar to yours ("I think everything is alright but what if I get refused for some totally stupid thing that I don't know of"). I already had pre-filled most documents but particularly regarding reference letters (work experience) I had some concerns.

I decided to hire a lawyer. One of the best law firms in Toronto according to Google reviews. The price was $3,000 "everything included". They were really helpful and responded within minutes until I signed up. Then I signed up.

And then things changed.

Not because they lawyers don't know their stuff or because they didn't care. It is as easy as that: Their assistants don't seem to be able to work with people who know their shit. They are totally geared towards people who fear forms and don't know how to convert a Word document into a PDF file.

I sent them my prefilled application forms and thought that would save time (and obviously, time was of the essence back then, due to caps). Still, my application was first handled by a "legal assistant" (read: A person that knows how to use Excel, Word and has read the CIC website five times). I can say for certain that I know the Canadian immigration system five times better than her. Anyways, she sent me a word file that I should fill out (that she then would use to fill the forms). This is helpful for people who can't handle forms or without good English skills since they can just "throw their info and documents at her" and she sorts the whole mess. For people like me who speak English and can handle forms, that was of course totally worthless. I just gave her the pre-filled forms. However, it took her six weeks to get the paperwork ready. Six weeks! And she had all documentation on the first day.

So far I thought: What the hell what do I pay you for?

Then, however, after she "prescreened" for six weeks and after I called her boss several times, my file finally went to the actual lawyer. And wow, he knows his shit. Like for real. Once the file was on his desk, I had him on the phone several times and he helped me prepare a reference letter that my employer signed that I think was so concise that no CIC officer ever will be able to reject it. From then on, the whole process took another three weeks or so.

But then: BAM just when we wanted to file the application, the cap was filled.

I was really frustrated since it was all the legal assistant's fault that we didn't finish the application in time.
The good thing is, the legal assistant was so incompetent that she only charged me the initial $1,000 downpayment and forgot to charge the remaining $2,000.

This January, I applied for EE, got an ITA in March, did everything myself (based on the reference letter, that my lawyer prepared) and my application is currently being processed (medicals already passed).

Long story short: If you think you are form-savvy and you are a rather smart person, don't hire a lawyer to do everything for you. Actually if you do one of those all-in-packages, you won't even be able to access your own application on MyCIC to check the status. Your whole destiny is given into the hands of a (competent) lawyer and (mostly incompetent) legal assistants. Also, the all-in thing will cost you a lot of money, thousands of dollars (see above). What you are concerned with, those are just particular issues. If these are important to you, try to find one of the smaller, independent lawyers and ask them what they charge you if you skype with them/if they look over a particular document. That's just some hundred dollars and might be worth it.

And, if your application gets refused like your friend's, you can still hire a lawyer afterwards who fill file a lawsuit for you.

And, regarding this forum: It can be a great resource but keep in mind that there's a lot of guessing/rumours going on, so take everything with a grain of salt. Also keep in mind that due to the nature of a forum, you'll see mostly posts by people who have issues. Most applications are handed smoothly. Fill the forms, doublecheck, triplecheck them. Make sure you got all documents ready. Ask for advice on one or two issues from a lawyer (NOT from a consultant or anything else) if your think you need it. And everything will be alright.

Sorry for the long post :)
 

katja2684

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spyfy said:
Sorry for the long post following, but I think you have a similar mindset than me so I think this is helpful.

Having a lawyer can be a good thing but it can also make things worse. Here's my experience:
I've been through a similar experience last year with one of the 'popular' (ie advertised) law firms.My file has been passed from assistant to assistant until I got fed up and cancelled the contract (I never spoke to the lawyer assigned to my case during the 4 months!).
I then decided to work with an immigration consultant recommended by a coworker. The consultant has been very helpful and trustworthy.
Of course, there's a price you have to pay but I'm glad I'm getting quality service in return.
I'm also short of time because my permit expires in November and I didn't want to make any mistakes in my application. Seeing all the recent rejections is confirming that I made the right decision.
 

m.dassuj

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I had a consultant. Paid lot of money and by the end I was out of status a while. Remember guys, consultants are the people. They are doing mistakes as well. Immigration changes rules all the time. Now with EE is much easier. We have to answer on clear questions and fill form online. It's mean that form sometimes give us proposition (answer yes Or no). Is much easier. I try to do it by myself. I don't have money for consultants. This forum is very helpful. I've had several technical question and all answers I found here. I'm here every day and read lots of post. So we can know other experience and we can learn on others mistakes -sorry others:)
Reasons if you need consultant
1. If you don't speak English at all
2. Your situation is difficult (out of status or expired visa)
3. You don't have time or you know nothing about CIC
4. You have a lot of money:)
 

terulinkarezinka

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We decided to go with a paid help of a representative. Here's why: we were struggling with the PR process for the last two years as the rules and programs were changing not to out benefit, we found her early on, back when we still didn't have work permits and were just searching for LMOs. She kept advising us for free for the last two years. She was giving us options when the programs, we were eligible for were closed, was coming up with ideas how to keep ourselves in Canada. Then we totally gave up by the end of last year and in January, she contacted us saying - I hope u guys know u can now apply through EE. We had no idea we can (we kept telling everyone we are leaving Canada in January, even though we had WP till May). SO she guided us through the whole thing, told us what papers she needs to apply for EE profile and ensured us, we will be picked in the first draw after we are in.
We gave her what she asked for and were withdrawn from EE pool 2 days after we were thrown in. She sent us a whole checklist of documents and all the legal documents for employer (reference, job offer, proof of employment) wrote herself - so we literally just printed them off and gave them to the employer to sign.
I'm following all the discussions regarding EE here on canadavisa and i feel sense of relief that we spent $2.400 (for 2 people), because many people got rejected due to small mistakes (like uploading just the CR translation, without original). Also, our WP expired on May 5th and due to her guidance, we knew, that if we apply before that, we will be able to keep working on implied status, we got an official letter from her proving this to our employer, we could keep our Alberta health as well She applied for our BOWP free of charge.
The immigration consultants can for sure make mistakes, but they have experience in how i call it "shutting immigration up before they even ask" - she makes sure every document is perfect before she submits it and did the same thing with our work permits two years ago.
Also, immigration consultant will keep fighting for you and if CIC rejected you for no reason or for something really simple - they will keep working on your case and back you up instead of you going through this hell by yourself. They are responsible for you.
This forum is really helpful, but in many cases you just see two totally opposite answers to your question. Having a paid help will keep you away from this doubt.
 

m.dassuj

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Its true. If you dont feel comfortable with EE or paperwork, is much easier to take consultants. I also thought about this, but in my case, only one reason is do not take laweyr right now - MONEY ;) I try to do by myself. And my situation is clear. I have wp one year more (so i have insurance) and work and status. So i have time.
Lots of ppl dont have this comfort, so for them it is last chance. And i understant reasons to hire consultants/lawyers. As i told, i had consulant before, but now i try and i have to do it by myself.
Anyway good luck guys;) we are on same boat:)
 

terulinkarezinka

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Exactly - for us it was the last shot, so we didn't wana screw something up and regret. But if we have fresh LMIA and we have a year or two, maybe we would try ourselves. As I said, I feel sense of relief when i see all the guys here freaking about every small detail of the application and I don't know if I could be comfortable with answers provided mostly by people, who are in the same situation as me. This way it was pretty straight forward and it saved us a lot of time wondering and searching for the right way how and what to upload.

Also, I personally think it's better that I have no access to my CIC account and eCAS and cant track the progress because i think i wouldn't be doing anything else :D
 

m.dassuj

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terulinkarezinka said:
Also, I personally think it's better that I have no access to my CIC account and eCAS and cant track the progress because i think i wouldn't be doing anything else :D
HAHAH right! i wonder, does my insurance cover mental help? long term? i do not check facebook or mail, because i refresh every 5 minutes my CIC account. I`m out of normal life :)
 

terulinkarezinka

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When did you apply? So far it seems your mental health shouldn't be in jeopardy for too long - maybe 2-3 months of non-stop CIC profile refreshing lol