What's it like to live in Canada?

[fkl]

Thank you every one on this thread. It seems to be giving valuable information.

I am in IT in early thirties about to move to Montreal from Pakistan (I hope the country name doesn't pop racism). I am well experienced in my domain, have worked for several US based MNC's in the past and was approached and offered a job by a company in Montreal which works for a US based MNC.

I plan to move alone initially and get my family (spouse and 3 kids - two toddlers and one school going) after some time.

I have never been to Canada before (though i am pretty experienced with people from US). From what i read so far, Montreal sounds a bit racist too. I know zero french and am a practicing Muslim though i am pretty sure i have found it very easy to be friends with Indians or Americans in the past.

Since i already have a decent job offer, finding work doesn't seem to be my primary concern. But i am wondering about the rest.

I know zero french but intend to learn some. My spouse is well educated and doesn't work because she doesn't get enough time apart from looking after our children. If she does get time a while latter (and doesn't need to work), she would still prefer pursuing studies (already has a masters in business / HR). But yes she wears a head scarf (though not complete face coverage) and i have a beard.

Do you guys think we might be able to settle in Montreal? Are all things being said about Quebec in general apply to Montreal too? I mean there is MG Gill there which is supposed to be one of the best universities in the world so should have people from all sorts of world.

We have lived in pretty big cities only and are used to eating out from well known chains.

I do understand that our restrictions with Halaal food would limit us somewhat. But still over all is it worth leaving a decent life back home too?

Some of the reasons for me making the move.

* In Pakistan i am paid among the top few percents in the salaried sector. But it is still impossible to get a home of my own in some decent area in like 20 years. I am expncting we might be able to buy a home after that long (may be earlier, if not in Canada, then at least in Pakistan out of saving working in Canada).
* We live a pretty lavish life with quality, but still don't save anything
* Cost of schooling is very high and once the younger two also get school going, it will be tough to afford all of their education. I expect my kids could get better class education in early years + chances of higher education would be far better.
* Medical care is expensive, but we can afford that (partly employer funded and pay the rest from own pockets), so don't have to wait in long queues.
* The political and social situation of Pakistan is getting bad day by day, although it certainly isn't as bad as it looks on tv / news in general.

I would really appreciate any inputs on above. Thanks for reading through.

 

[AAL1984]

As an American, when I hear that there are simply more opportunities in the US, the first thing that comes to mind is they should be immediately dismissed or laughed at.

The US is a nation that lives on debt and credit -- credit used for job creation is attained extremely easily, no lesson was learned about this late last decade, in fact, fundamentals now are far worse than before the market plunged in 2008. In Canada debt and bubbles are starting to become a little more of a problem (although in Canada it's a bit more isolated in the housing market), but Canada's market is more realistic as it's a country that relies on exports rather than currency manipulation as a worldwide reserve.

The US cannot sustain the vast and encompassing market that is, in an economist sense, phony. The US government needs to perpetuate reckless debt financed stimulus (one form being QE that won't cease) to even keep the illusion that it's market is only teetering on small amounts of growth that comes in the form of creating part time retail jobs. Once the naive lenders of US debt realize they'll never get their money back, they'll cut their ties with the US and it's currency, and the US' market that people talk about being so great will sink back down to reality, plummeting even further, since rather than change their policy of not giving a crap about debt, they just worsened it, ruining their currency in the process, and what a harsh reality it's going to be.

In short, US economic fundamentals are in terrible shape, their healthcare system is in utter disarray (on top of not having universal), it is not a place, having an education in macro, and having spent 95% of my life in the US, I'd want to invest my future into until things do a 180 there. There's many European countries alone I'd recommend way before the US. Canada's fundamentals with debt and their market are in far better shape than the US.

In many ways to me Canada is a hybrid between the US and European countries, just larger. It is very important to know what industry you're in, and move to the part(s) of Canada where your chances are higher at success. Because Canada's market isn't artificially propped up, it is indeed quite vulnerable to periods of normal recession. Only those who excessively rely on the American market will really suffer when the US market that relies on excess debt financed consumption logically goes belly up.

US has a reserve currency, pretty much means they can borrow as much as they want. US is also about to have a massive oil boom, in short US is fine. Ontario Quebec BC are in real bad debt too. Most well educated professional immigrants find far more opportunity in US, just go to Silicon Valley (booming) tons of immigrants there.

Also as an American you probably don't know this but most minorities in Canada ie Chinese South Asians etc actually wanted to immigrate to US but the immigration system there is much more complicated.

 

[AAL1984]

Thank you every one on this thread. It seems to be giving valuable information.

I am in IT in early thirties about to move to Montreal from Pakistan (I hope the country name doesn't pop racism). I am well experienced in my domain, have worked for several US based MNC's in the past and was approached and offered a job by a company in Montreal which works for a US based MNC.

I plan to move alone initially and get my family (spouse and 3 kids - two toddlers and one school going) after some time.

I have never been to Canada before (though i am pretty experienced with people from US). From what i read so far, Montreal sounds a bit racist too. I know zero french and am a practicing Muslim though i am pretty sure i have found it very easy to be friends with Indians or Americans in the past.

Since i already have a decent job offer, finding work doesn't seem to be my primary concern. But i am wondering about the rest.

I know zero french but intend to learn some. My spouse is well educated and doesn't work because she doesn't get enough time apart from looking after our children. If she does get time a while latter (and doesn't need to work), she would still prefer pursuing studies (already has a masters in business / HR). But yes she wears a head scarf (though not complete face coverage) and i have a beard.

Do you guys think we might be able to settle in Montreal? Are all things being said about Quebec in general apply to Montreal too? I mean there is MG Gill there which is supposed to be one of the best universities in the world so should have people from all sorts of world.

We have lived in pretty big cities only and are used to eating out from well known chains.

I do understand that our restrictions with Halaal food would limit us somewhat. But still over all is it worth leaving a decent life back home too?

Some of the reasons for me making the move.

* In Pakistan i am paid among the top few percents in the salaried sector. But it is still impossible to get a home of my own in some decent area in like 20 years. I am expncting we might be able to buy a home after that long (may be earlier, if not in Canada, then at least in Pakistan out of saving working in Canada).
* We live a pretty lavish life with quality, but still don't save anything
* Cost of schooling is very high and once the younger two also get school going, it will be tough to afford all of their education. I expect my kids could get better class education in early years + chances of higher education would be far better.
* Medical care is expensive, but we can afford that (partly employer funded and pay the rest from own pockets), so don't have to wait in long queues.
* The political and social situation of Pakistan is getting bad day by day, although it certainly isn't as bad as it looks on tv / news in general.

I would really appreciate any inputs on above. Thanks for reading through.

I will be honest. Montreal is a very crappy city in general. Tourist parts are nice but mostly it's a very dirty city and the roads are broken. Lots of gangster mafia corruption in Montreal too. Very cold and heavy snow.

French are very racist and tend to not like Muslims.

Taxes in Quebec are very high.


Most talented and well educated people leave Quebec for US or other parts of Canada

 

[fkl]

I will be honest. Montreal is a very crappy city in general. Tourist parts are nice but mostly it's a very dirty city and the roads are broken. Lots of gangster mafia corruption in Montreal too. Very cold and heavy snow.

French are very racist and tend to not like Muslims.

Taxes in Quebec are very high.


Most talented and well educated people leave Quebec for US or other parts of Canada

Thank you very much AAL1984. I appreciate your feedback. Not moving at this point is not much of a choice and i assume corruption and gangs stuff are very common in the US as well.

Could you please advice some better localities in Montreal to live in? in terms of decent area, not too dominant french spoken, being Muslim and may be easy to commute to Rue Saint Nicolas where i expect to work?

 

[AAL1984]

Thank you very much AAL1984. I appreciate your feedback. Not moving at this point is not much of a choice and i assume corruption and gangs stuff are very common in the US as well.

Could you please advice some better localities in Montreal to live in? in terms of decent area, not too dominant french spoken, being Muslim and may be easy to commute to Rue Saint Nicolas where i expect to work?

Hi FKL,

For better and more accurate information please see http://www.city-data.com/forum/canada/, great forum with people who are currently in various cities and can give you up to date information.



In terms of Montreal, the corruption and gangs its very different from other North American cities (I've lived all over US and Canada). In Montreal corruption is like what you will find in a 3rd world country, this is very different from other North American cities In Montreal gangs and corruption have infiltrated the government, ie in city council, city departments, Quebec government etc.

Roads are so bad because the mafia builds them.

Also Montreal and Quebec have a very communist type attitude, people don't want to work or create business opportunities. Most people just want welfare and free stuff from the government. This has created Spain/Portugal type economic disaster.

Anyway good luck to you, please see the forum I posted above and post your living related questrions there.

 

[fkl]

Thank you AALL_1984. I will go through the forum as thoroughly as possible for me.

 

[Bargeld]

US has a reserve currency, pretty much means they can borrow as much as they want. US is also about to have a massive oil boom, in short US is fine. Ontario Quebec BC are in real bad debt too. Most well educated professional immigrants find far more opportunity in US, just go to Silicon Valley (booming) tons of immigrants there.

Also as an American you probably don't know this but most minorities in Canada ie Chinese South Asians etc actually wanted to immigrate to US but the immigration system there is much more complicated.

I sponsored an ex of mine from Greece, the US immigration system is not complicated. For a K1, K3, and IR-CR1 one did not need a lawyer to fill out the paperwork. Much like sponsoring a spouse form here, it was simple. There are loopholes, which you might confuse for being "complicated".

Having lived in Silicon Valley most of my life, most immigrants there are from Mexico or India (Sunnyvale comes to mind). Much like in the GTA (Toronto area), they (willfully) keep to themselves in their own segregated communities. Indians tend to come over on H1-B visas (Google is an example of a company that occasionally did H1-B programs) -- not so much anymore as much of the IT industry has been moved out of the country.

US has one of the worst economic fundamentals of any first world nation, and only because of their status as a reserve currency do they get away with such terrible fundamentals, but it's clear that the punch bowl will be removed from the party and the party will be over soon. It would be far more wise to move to a much more fiscally stable nation (with long term outlook being positive) like Canada or Australia. I would like to say Germany but they are abetting Greece's fiscal problems, Greece being very similar to the US in terms of bad economic fundamentals. Most economic growth in the US is artificially created by stimulus that's borrowed from other countries, the US has no standing anymore as an economy from saving or producing, it's primary economic function in 2013-2014 is debt, consumption, and importing, which is not sustainable.

While the average forum user won't understand (hell, not even the average American understands their own country's economic outlook), the way the US is run economically cannot be sustained in the long run, and I would advise people not look at the US as some economic utopia when the economic rug is just waiting to be swept out from under that country. One of the biggest points of frustration I had with the US was the willingness of that country to throw everything away in the long run for the short term high of immediate benefits.

Just to point to how badly that country is run, if the Fed ever pulls back now on QE and other forms of stimulus, or willfully lets interest rates rise, the lenders of US debt will see how fragile and in bad shape the US economy really is, the veil will be lifted, and people will run from investing in the US, and the dollar, leading to the disaster that should have been averted with better economic fundamentals, especially after what happened in 2008.

 

[unitedbritishphilippines]

Every place in canada has something to offer for a new immigrant. It is just a matter of perseverance and hardwork. I have lived in Toronto for a while and I found it to be be manageable as long as you keep on working. Work and working hard is a valuable key in living and surviving in canada.

 

[canadavisa13]

hi AAL1984,

i totally disagree with you about almost everything you cited about montreal.
shame on you since you live in alberta and you said montreal is very cold and a lot of heavy snow,alberta is 10 times colder then quebec.
montreal is very beautifull and clean.
a lot of communities from all over the world,there isn't any race that you can't find in montreal.
french people are not racist and english is spoken there too but if you wanna move to quebec you should start learning french for better opportunities and well adaptation.
montreal has been chosen as the most MULTICULTURAL city not just in canada but north america due to its positive diversity.
there is enough jobs for people who wnat to work hard and earn their money.
montreal has some of the top 10 universities in world an number one in canada.
quebec's education system is one of the best in canada.
montreal's transporation system is convenient and fast(the bus runs smoothly along with the metro).
the government offer support and orientation for new comers and there is few initiatives offered by the government of quebec.
not to forgot tourism and attractions,the city host plenty of festivals which are a lot of fun and well appreciated by residents and tourists.
montreal is always under construction and maintenance for its infrastructures,the city is expanding to its suburbs.
but i also want to say that mafia is pretty much everywhere you can google it for yourself and get the real facts.

to conclude i will say that those are just few of montreal's positive signs why new comers chose to settle there.

 

[canadavisa13]

hi fkl do not get discouraged by what AAL1984 said about montreal,you are going to get there and find the reality for your self.im very sure that you will love it as most immigrants and canadians does.

 

[AAL1984]

LOL Montreal is a craphole, they have language police for Gods sake. Quebec is so badly in debt, bank of Canada governor Mark Carney (ex governor) expressed many times how concerned he was about Quebec. Quebec taxes are brutally high, highest compared to any US state or province. All they do is tax and spend. Even the tax offices there are notoriously corrupt and under investigation for bribes.

Quebec government wants to ban Muslims from wearing hijabs in public office, so a Muslim doctor or math teacher would not be allowed to wear her hijab. That is so stupid. In US such a law would never be allowed because America has a constitution.

Anyway forget all that, even other Canadians are fed up of Quebec as it is a drain on all provinces, a complete dump with socialist values.

Also Montreal is not clean hahaha, outside of touristy spots it's a dump and the roads highways are falling apart. After driving over the potholes my back was hurting so bad, I've never seen such *censored word*ty roads in my life.


Weather wise all of Canada sucks and is depressing, you either have rain or endless cold and snow.


What I love about US is the diversity of the climate. You want snow and mountains, they have Alaska , Colorado etc you want deserts done, tropical islands , done, California, Florida , New England , place is bloody diverse.

Canadians are also notoriously jealous of US and love to talk crap about it. I hate the anti American attitude here, yet for vacations and partying they all go to Florida or Vegas. Canadians portray this smug superior attitude when discussing the US, yet never see their own problems.

In terms of innovation opportunity and creativity no place matches US.

 

[canadavisa13]

AAL1984,

just for the sake of information the law is just a proposition as of now and it will not pass just watch and you will see.its been introduced by party quebecois which's running quebec currently and its intended to ban religious symbols for public sector workers from all faiths not just muslims.

a simple question if you don't mind,why do you moved to canada if you prefer usa?don't get me wrong i love the USA as well and it's a great country.

 

[fkl]

Thanks canadavisa13 and AAL1984. I believe each of your opinions are point of views may be by viewing from various angles.

I agree that to some extent i should experience it myself. Winter not being too much of a concern at the moment, i am rather more concerned about religious and other barriers. Good to know that canadavisa13 suggested it being a selected lot targeting interfering with others personal beliefs. I hope every one gives others this much freedom to chose and live their own lives by their faiths as long as they respect the same for others. It does sound logical that there are always radicals every where. Only question is whether they are the dominant part of the country / city / province or not.

I am also concerned if it would be okay for my kids to settle i.e. the elder one is in grade two and pretty good in english but of course will need time to settle with french.

 

[steaky]

I am also concerned if it would be okay for my kids to settle i.e. the elder one is in grade two and pretty good in english but of course will need time to settle with french.

I think it's okay to bring your kids to Montreal.

In fact, I heard many of the local Chinese immigrants said cost of private schooling here in Vancouver is way more affordable than in China.

 

[canadavisa13]

you are welcome fkl

religious is not an issue at all in montreal,there are plenty of mosques there as well so you can freely worship and do your prayers.
radicals are not dominant in montreal,in fact not dominant in the whole country.
your kid is still at a stage when he can learn the language pretty quick,i will challenge you that he can get fluent in french in a short period.
recent studies shows that kids can learn a new language way faster than adults.

good luck with whatever decision you make