what to do next, renewal denied.

[Msafiri]

.....I'm talking about China (not Canada). Since it is not compulsory, I'm not surprised he never include the paper trail in the TD document....

I think we've exhausted the 'Chinese registration requirement' issue or not as the case may be and probably best to agree to disagree. Perhaps your family in China can clarify by reviewing the Chinese equivalent of Canada's Immigration and Refugee Protection Act then you telling the board the outcome of this.

Ultimately the OP needs to weigh the chances of success or not at appeal. They started off with 972 days and its clear that the visa post rightly dealt with this as incorrect. Chances of appeal appear low too because the decision appears to be correct in law. So the OP has to go the H&C route.

If I was the CIC lawyer my opening arguments would be...''your honour...

1. the husband has remained outside Canada for x days to the extent that he has lost PR,
2. the family can and do visit him in China,
3. he has decided not to work in Canada,
4. he has no intention to reside in Canada,
5. he has not established himself in Canada, he doesn't even have a bank account,
6. he makes enough money to support the family and travel back and forth..."

and my closing statement would be "I fail to find any H&C reasons to approve this application as the applicant has decided to live a lifestyle where he is away from his family and this will not be changing in the near future.....".

Chinapeach good luck with whatever you decide to do.

 

[farid-]

In my personal opinion can be wrong. I was reading views from senior members, even for a moment we think that he got accepted on h&c grounds this time. Presently even then he is not in position to live in Canada. At the end of the day again after 5yrs. When pr will expire he will be in same situation. So, they have to decide as a family where they want to settle down in long term. She is canadian citizen n can sponsor him even from china. But again end of the day final decision will be what you actually want n where to live china or canada? So decide once n be stick to whatever you decide n based on your decision choose your future action plane. Above all whether its china or canada where ever you can live happily together as a family tht's the main thing. But as I said it's my personal opinion n I migt be wrong so sorry if I ofend anyone's feeling.

 

[Msafiri]

Nothing stops a Canadian citizen sponsoring the spouse mutliple times. IMHO the difficulty would be in always having to establish the genuiness of the relationship if you are always apart for extensive periods such that PR status is lost. This post illustrates the challenge for PRs who live outside Canada but their Canadian spouse lives in Canada. The message here is that PR status is for living in Canada not a special visitors visa and that those PRs who intend to have extensive absences from Canada should consider obtaining Citizenship.

 

[steaky]

The message here is that PR status is for living in Canada not a special visitors visa and that those PRs who intend to have extensive absences from Canada should consider obtaining Citizenship.

But there are times that this doesn't work when some countries such as China and Singapore doesn't allows dual citizenship and they want to live/work in both nations from time to time.

So I would say those PRs who intend to have extensive absences from Canada should be living with their Canadian citizen spouse to maintain their PR residency obligation. They should be living together.

 

[Msafiri]

But there are times that this doesn't work when some countries such as China and Singapore doesn't allows dual citizenship and they want to live in both nations from time to time.

So I would say those PRs who intend to have extensive absences from Canada should be living with their Canadian citizen spouse to maintain their PR residency obligation. They should be living together.

1. Any government's immigration policy is driven by the country's goals and these do not necessarily fit in with the individual's situations.
2. PRs who choose to not or are unable to apply for Citizenship have to accept that this comes with a risk of PR loss if they fail to meet the residence obligation or are inadmissible for some other reaons such as criminal convictions.

 

[steaky]

On the contrary, I think PR status is a special visitor visa. There were many cases like Chinapeach that the only way for her husband to visit Canada is to get married and then go for spousal sponsorship. Like any visitor visa, there is an expiry date and there is no guarantee for the visa to get extended nor guarantee for getting a new one.

1. Any government's immigration policy is driven by the country's goals and these do not necessarily fit in with the individual's situations.

I disagree. It's more likely to be driven by the country's ruling party.

 

[Msafiri]

On the contrary, I think PR status is a special visitor visa. There were many cases like Chinapeach that the only way for her husband to visit Canada is to get married and then go for spousal sponsorship. Like any visitor visa, there is an expiry date and there is no guarantee for the visa to get extended nor guarantee for getting a new one.

The truth is that it doesn't really matter what you or I think - the IRPA, regulations and case law identifies and deals with PRs as distinct to Visitors. PR visas once activated with corresponding PR status are good subject to not being inadmissible.

....I disagree. It's more likely to be driven by the country's ruling party....

You have the right to disagree...its obvious from our respective postings we see things differently..for example the requirement for registering in China...did you check the exit/entry bureau site and see what they say? The ruling party is by default elected by a majority of the electorate so by virtue of democracy such as that we enjoy in Canada the ruling party is doing the will of the majority (be it simple or absolute) of the country's people and what they see best for them. You have the right to vote as a Canadian Citizen to support or oppose any party based on whatever reason you see fit.

I suggest we cease taking away from the original thread with our clearly divergent views and let the OP decide how to deal with their situation and for others in a similar situation to decide whether to fit in with the Canadian Immigration system if they wish to obtain and/or retain the right of entry/residence or alternatively to take actions that put such as risk.

 

[Chinapeach]

So this is where i stand now


My husband has a applied for the US visa. I told him to prepare all the documents he does have to show how many days he was here. WE can Match the entry to China stamps with teh CBSA, however we can't even get that information unless he is in CAnada according to the site. So basically unless he can come back to Canada we have no way to even make a case!

He does have a bank account here although he opened it and never used it.. He is chinese and used to cash not plastic. He also has a expired license since he failed his G2 the last time he was here and a fishing license .

We are going to try to gather our proofs and make a plea at the boarder and hopefully we'll get through otherwise i guess we'll vacation in the US for a couple days ( somewhere warm preferably)

So .. What should we bring to the border crossing?- All proof we have when he was here,driver license, fishing license, bank card, kids..anything else?

Moving back to China isn't an option . We don't have $50 000+ a year to school my 14 year old in China . I was homeschooling her when we lived there last but as she gets older i don't feel i'm capable to continue to homeschool her properly. I can teach some things, but i'm really not great at writting papers in any language. My eldest also attends French school , not impossible to transition to english but as she gets older it's tougher and french school in SHanghai is possible but even more $$. The food is also a huge concern for me. I'm an organic eater, it's very expensive to eat foreign foods in China and i don't trust alot of foods there.

Yeah well i didn't want to marry him cause i didn't know what was going to happen , where we were going to live.. But i loved him and i just took a leap hoping it would all work out. I don't mind the distance so much it's all i've ever known with him ( when you find something wonderful you take what you can get). I lived here and travelled to see him 3-4 times a year before PR.. then he got PR we took turns.. then i moved there cause wanted kids.. he sent me home 4 months pregnant cause China is a tough place to live!! thought i'd be more happy in Canada ( pregnant women aren't fun especially ones who have to live in China where all food is scary)..had baby in Canada moved back to China when baby was 4 months ( it's a long flight). Spent 5 months realised that we couldn't afford to school my eldest in China ( economy wasn't doing so great, lost alot in the stock market that year when it crashed) so we needed to go back to Canada so she could attend school. Got pregnant just before i left.. We bought a house when i got back cause obviously living together in China wasn't going to work. So slowly we've been establishing ourselves here but work is work. If he could come to Canada and make the same money he would..He spends whatever he can here with us. We both have a dream to have a wonderful family and life and we do everything we can to make that dream a reality even if it means beign apart a lot.

 

[Msafiri]

US Visa application if successful will facilitate a re-union. Take any documents in his name to the Port of Entry. A couple of more questions if you don't mind:

1. How long did the original spousal sponsorship take?

2. Were there any issues with the sponsorship e.g any interviews, any refusals?

3. Why can't your husband work in Canada? What is special about his job? (I ask as at an appeal hearing CIC lawyer will do the same).

4. To clarify you have 3 children (2 with your current spouse)..is the 14 year old in contact with the other parent (I ask as this is an H&C ground for you to remain in Canada).

5. Did you have any hospital visits in China for the pregnancies...any pre-natal visits, scans?

 

[Chinapeach]

1. Took 8 months through a agency.

2.Nope.. we got right in.. no interview nothing

3. He can't work here because he doesn't want to work here, He makes good money in China , doesn't want to give up that chance. His English is ok , but to continue doing what he does he wouldn't make even close to the same here in Canada.

4. Correct and no she has no contact with her Father, doesn't much like my husband either.

5. Yes. I had 3 visits. 1. I peed on a stick to confirm pregnancy 2nd visit they dated the pregnancy with an internal ultrasound and the 3rd we went to his Aunts Hospital to do blood work because the waits in Shanghai were rediculous. But the 2nd pregnancy i have nothing, I didn't even know i was pregnant when i left China. I got pregnant in China a 3rd time, but i didn't know i got pregnant until i came back to Canada and lost that baby in miscarriage last year. Apparently i'm only fertile in China..lol

 

[steaky]

I agree China is a tough place to live, but at least if you live in Shenzhen you can always cross the land border to Hong Kong to pick up less expensive foreign brand organic groceries. I used to have filtered water in Shanghai because the local tap water taste awful!!!! With regards to your children, is there any boarding schools in Canada they can study while you and your husband are in China? Or if there are any friends and relatives willing to look after them in Canada while you in China with your husband?

From my experience of helping my mother-in-law completing the online application form for US visa, I do not believe that your husband need to tell how long he has been in Canada, unless this is something new.

 

[Msafiri]

1. Took 8 months through a agency.

2.Nope.. we got right in.. no interview nothing

3. He can't work here because he doesn't want to work here, He makes good money in China , doesn't want to give up that chance. His English is ok , but to continue doing what he does he wouldn't make even close to the same here in Canada.

4. Correct and no she has no contact with her Father, doesn't much like my husband either.

5. Yes. I had 3 visits. 1. I peed on a stick to confirm pregnancy 2nd visit they dated the pregnancy with an internal ultrasound and the 3rd we went to his Aunts Hospital to do blood work because the waits in Shanghai were rediculous. But the 2nd pregnancy i have nothing, I didn't even know i was pregnant when i left China. I got pregnant in China a 3rd time, but i didn't know i got pregnant until i came back to Canada and lost that baby in miscarriage last year. Apparently i'm only fertile in China..lol

First of all I'm sorry about your loss. I asked of the hospital visits as if these are documented will be proof you were in China.

I've reviewed your thread in some detail and the key issue is that you are not really able to live in China for health, food and financial reasons whereas your husband has no real desire to live in Canada..he makes good money in China. There is significant Chinese investment in Canada's oil/mining industry with a not insignificant level of chinese employees so this could be an option. With respect you have what is effectively a commuter marriage that initially works for you but gets challenging once you have a family, distance is an issue and immigration a barrier.

I get the impression that your lifestyle will not change even on the odd chance that you win an appeal so you will face this same situation in a few years time. The major issue with an appeal is the time for it to be listed before the Immigration Board currently around 12-18 months. If you fail at this appeal you can appeal to the Federal Court (FC) but you need the FC to permit you to appeal (prevents baseless appeals) ..again another 12 months waiting time. Only advantage at this time is that your husband can enter Canada either via the US or by the issued PR Card (actually this raises another query as to if he will get his PR Card issued if he makes it into Canada and proceeds to collect it).

It may be best to abandon the appeal and apply for sponsorship. Your 8 month timeline is consistent with that for Family Class sponsorships at the Beijing Office on CIC's site. This will be faster than waiting for the appeals. Downside is that during the sponsorship he is unlikely to get a visitors visa (did he ever get a visit visa prior to your sponsorship?). If he has a US visa then you can always meet in the US. Once PR is approved you have a fresh start. You can repeat sponsorship on a cyclic basis each time PR status is lost although if you keep a better record of exits/entries and time outside Canada together you should be ok at the next PR Card renewal.

 

[steaky]

I've reviewed your thread in some detail and the key issue is that you are not really able to live in China for health, food and financial reasons whereas your husband has no real desire to live in Canada..he makes good money in China. There is significant Chinese investment in Canada's oil/mining industry with a not insignificant level of chinese employees so this could be an option. With respect you have what is effectively a commuter marriage that initially works for you but gets challenging once you have a family, distance is an issue and immigration a barrier.

Distance is not an issue and immigration isn’t a barrier as long as your husband is willing to financially support you and your children. Like it or not, your children will grow up sooner or later and they need to know how to take care of themselves. Let them be independent in Canada (or have a guardian to supervise them) while you and husband in China. You said you are organic eater and the food in China is scary. I have no questions about that, however, many locals including my wife’s relatives, grow their own vegetable and raise their own chickens in their garden. I can imagine if I were in your shoes, I would be growing my own organic food in China, use only filtered water with supplementary food from Canada (after visiting the children). Commute is not a problem.

 

[Chinapeach]

Yeah i not leaving my kids behind.. that isn't an option. I kinda like raising them and having them around. All i ever wanted to do was be a mom.

Hopefully he'll get his 10 year US Visa approved.. We'll try to cross, if it doesn't work then i guess maybe re apply PR. Wonder there is a way for him to Apply PR from US as being in CAnada? Only 40 days for PR if in Canada.. I guess there would be no way around it 8-9 months from China.

 

[steaky]

You are still your kids' mother regardless whether you live with them together or live separately.

My wife lives with me in Canada, but my mother-in-law lives in China. My wife is always my mother-in-law's daughter. This relationship never change.