What is my NOC code ? 4121 or 4131

[hgd7833]

I am planning to apply for immigration to Canada, but I have ONLY one question that I couldn't get it's answer even though I did asked a lot of experts.

I am a PhD student in my fourth year (last year ), and I have experience 3 years in teaching as a part time in our department, teaching courses for 1st year undergraduate students, and offer lectures and grades as a sole instructor ( Exactly as professors do ). I also have a 2 years experience in teaching as a lecturer ( Instructor) at the university leading level in two leading universities in middle east, and I taught undergraduate courses in these universities. So, as you see that my experience fits as the NOC code 4121 , and I have exactly the same duties of this category as mentioned in your tutorial, except that in the employment requirement, I don't have a PhD yet, and in this category, PhD certificate is required, and I will get my PhD degree within one year, and so when I enter Canada to work, I will occupy the position of a university professor, not College and Vocational instructors, and my experience fits more as university professor than College and Vo. instructors, and I will also earn the PhD degree before landing to work in Canada, so what is my code now, is it 4121 or 4131 ???

I am sorry for the long message but I couldn't find a definite answer. Some attorneys told me that I should be 4121 as I don't have the PhD degree yet, but other expert told me that your experience fits 4121 more, and when you work in Canada you will work under this category. Which one is right now ???

I hope to hear from you, and I am very grateful for that

 

[hgd7833]

Please, reply if anybody knows the answer to my inquiry....Many thanks in advance !

 

[rupeshhari]

You don't need a phd. I have read somewhere that educational qualifications do not need to be fulfilled. If you are applying for FSW1, you should know that 4131 and 4121 are no longer in the ministerial list.

 

[mediajunkie]

It doesn't matter now as they have removed both codes as of June 26, 2010. They may put it back in after reviewing it year.

But just to answer your query, should they ever reverse the situation: I was in the same situation as you when I applied and I applied as a university professor and had experience as a teaching assistant but later got promoted to tenure-track faculty at an American University. I hadn't gotten my Ph.D. when I applied although I got it after. The most important thing is that you should have the paystubs or letters from your employers explaining your job duties and showing that you worked full time and continuously for at least a year.

Either way there are very few jobs for university professors right now in Canada, and preference for assistant professor positions tend to go to those with Ph.D.s from Canadian universities. Departments are unlikely to hire foreigners unless they have a strong international publication record and those are only for senior posts. You could be the best teacher in the world but if you haven't published, you won't get hired at a university. Universities only care if you have a strong research agenda. Maybe at a community college or a polytechnic where there is more emphasis on teaching.

 

[hgd7833]

Thanks for the valuable information. I am VERY VERY disappointed now by the decision to remove my NOC, as I was planning to apply within the next couple of days !!!!! Can you imagine that ???
I have prepared every thing and completed all the forms and was to apply on Monday or Tuesday.
I am shocked and just can't believe that !!
FOR THE GOD'S SAKES tell me am dreaming , PLEASE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[mediajunkie]

You are dreaming.

With that said, you can now fully concentrate on finishing your Ph.D.. In the meantime you should work on gaining skills that would increase your chances of employment in Canada. As I have mentioned before teaching jobs are extremely hard to come by especially if you have no Canadian experience. You might even have better luck in the United States. There are 5000 college level institutions there but only 87 universities in Canada, probably about 200 total if you include community colleges and private schools.

Perhaps one option would be to come on an international student visa for a short course such as a 1-year graduate certificate, and try your luck from there. Having Canadian credentials would definitely boost your chances of gaining a job in Canada.

 

[hgd7833]

Thanks again. I may want to focus on US then. Do you by any chance heard or know of any forums that discuss green cards and national interests in US ??

 

[mediajunkie]

The Chronicle of Higher Education is the place to go to look for academic jobs, primarily in the US. Occasionally you might find some jobs advertising for other countries too.

You did not mention your discipline. There is high demand for engineering professors, math professors, statistics professors, science (Physics, Biology, Chemistry) - basically anything that requires advanced math or science skills. If you are a liberal arts professor such as English, History, etc. there are more Ph.D.s than there are jobs. If you are a social science (political science, economics, psychology) professor it's just a matter of luck and whether a college has the money to hire in those fields.

Like with Canada, US universities also place a lot of weight on research rather than teaching. If you have no published research you can probably only hope to find a job at liberal arts colleges or community colleges or the smaller state universities.

 

[hgd7833]

I am PhD student in mathematics. I have publications right now ( 2 articles ) and will extend to 4 or 5 by the end of my study.
I also have twi experience as a university instructor in middle east universities

 

[rupeshhari]

I am PhD student in mathematics. I have publications right now ( 2 articles ) and will extend to 4 or 5 by the end of my study.
I also have twi experience as a university instructor in middle east universities

where r u studying now?

 

[hgd7833]

Western Michigan University

 

[rupeshhari]

You could get a job easily in the US. Did you look at the chronicles of higher education. Also I heard AIMS conferences usually have job interviews at the conference. Trackitt.com has a discussion forum for those interested in US immigration but is no way as comprehensive as this forum is for Canada.

 

[hgd7833]

I will check this out. Thanks for the advices !

 

[mediajunkie]

I got my Ph.D. from Michigan State University and was an engineering professor at the University of Michigan. I'm surprised that your Ph.D. program did not tell you how to look for jobs because those things were drilled in my head even before we started the Ph.D. program. Being in a US program would definitely increase your chances of finding a job in the US greatly, I don't even know why you were considering Canada.

Mathematics is a fairly sought-after area, for some reason Americans aren't good at math or math-based professions. And there are math departments at almost every single university and college in the United States so there are definitely job opportunities for you.

When you have teaching reviews make sure you keep them as they are proof of teaching efficiency. They do not hold as much weight as research though. There are so many professors at both MSU and UMich that can barely speak a coherent sentence in English, but they are such efficient and well-connected researchers that can bring in millions in grants to the university that they are kept around.

 

[hgd7833]

Actually, I have been told that if you are not a US citizen, and you don't hold a green card, then no body will be interested in hiring you.
I will definitely apply to different schools, but I prefer to have different plans.
Thanks again for the advices.