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JRAY_

Full Member
Apr 29, 2019
36
16
Yes it’s a separate procedure, probably an useless one because a visa office would never admit they did it wrong. We sent our notice of appeal but I’m not sure how we’re going to deal with that. Not the biggest task right now.

Firstly I don’t want to get married just to be able to get a visa. I want a beautiful wedding ceremony with family and friends. It’s difficult and expensive (ando also not easy due to covid) to perform since all of them are all over the world. It doesn’t seem right to rush something as important as a wedding day. Maybe I’m too naive or it’s just like having different views on life since I’m still kinda young and people of my age are fine with being in CL relationships. Secondly I’m not sure how it would look if we get married asap and then apply. It would clearly scream it’s for the visa, technically yes but still how does it work in this case? Would not be funny to be rejected again. To sum up, we’re going to get married eventually but definitely not asap. There’re so many opportunities in the world for young well-educated people, it’s not smart to waste this precious time on waiting (and also pausing your life) for one country to finally welcome you.
I agree, I feel like you're "damned if you do and damned if you don't." Get married and they will probably shower you with "marriage of convenience." Don't get married and your relationship is not genuine... IRCC wants to have its cake and eat it too...

I wonder if you could apply for a TRV, then reapply for PR inland. Either way, IRCC are putting you both between a rock and a hard place and it's not right. My heart goes out to you both.
 
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passenger19

Hero Member
Feb 5, 2020
609
542
Category........
FAM
Visa Office......
Warsaw
I agree, I feel like you're "damned if you do and damned if you don't." Get married and they will probably shower you with "marriage of convenience." Don't get married and your relationship is not genuine... IRCC wants to have its cake and eat it too...

I wonder if you could apply for a TRV, then reapply for PR inland. Either way, IRCC are putting you both between a rock and a hard place and it's not right. My heart goes out to you both.
Yes I completely agree with you. They know what situation they put us in and still did it. Especially with Covid going around the world and all those travel restrictions taking place. Just like some sort of sadistic behavior. I believe my TRV would be rejected on the very next day after applying since we’re still CL, we signed declaration of CL. It’s funny how it puts you in a position when you have all the responsibilities of CL but no “sweets” of that. So I would be immediately rejected as a family member especially since I’ve been refused before, as we applied for my TRV six months before we applied for FC Sponsorship. It really sucks to be rejected twice when you have zero intentions to abuse the system.
 
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armoured

VIP Member
Feb 1, 2015
17,286
8,892
Get married and they will probably shower you with "marriage of convenience." Don't get married and your relationship is not genuine...
I doubt many relationships where a couple lives together for close to a year, have documents to show that and get married get rejected.

So yes, getting married does raise the likelihood of not getting rejected. Significantly. Not to 100%, but significantly.
 

armoured

VIP Member
Feb 1, 2015
17,286
8,892
First, really sorry this is happening to you. Terrible.

Secondly I’m not sure how it would look if we get married asap and then apply. It would clearly scream it’s for the visa, technically yes but still how does it work in this case?
It will not hurt your case, it will help your case. Yes, it will still get reviewed carefully given the previous rejection, but the 'technical bar' of common law can actually be a bit difficult to meet.

You and your spouse - having lived together quite a bit and longer together (even if apart) since then - will have a thicker and better documented file if you apply again.

Getting married will help your case.

Firstly I don’t want to get married just to be able to get a visa. I want a beautiful wedding ceremony with family and friends. It’s difficult and expensive (and also not easy due to covid) to perform since all of them are all over the world. It doesn’t seem right to rush something as important as a wedding day. Maybe I’m too naive or it’s just like having different views on life since I’m still kinda young and people of my age are fine with being in CL relationships.
Okay, I'm going to make some comments that may not be welcome, but you're an adult.

Big one: you can get married any way you want. You can have eight weddings if you like.

And you can do what many, many tens of thousands of couples do in almost all of Europe, Russia, and Canada, which is have a modest, small civil ceremony, and then have a private / religious / enormous / scuba-diving / whatever-you-like ceremony as beautiful as you like, whenever you want.

A civil wedding is a civil, legal ceremony. You can combine that with your big beautiful wedding, but you don't have to.

And the point I would say you ARE missing a little is that the point of a common law relationship having some status (historically and the way I think they approach) is that a real common law relatonship is every bit as real and serious as a 'civil marriage.' (Including legally depending on jurisdiction, but really complicated).

Whether it's naive or not, I don't know; but if you see a difference between 'getting married' and 'common law' to the extent that you don't want to get married for a (rather important) immigration reason, then you are actually demonstrating that you don't see marriage and common law as the same. You're kind of undermining your own case. You're not getting married 'just to get a visa' - you're getting married in a civil ceremony a bit earlier and in different cirumstances than your dream wedding for a really good practical reason.

Whatever your feelings about marriage: right now, not being married is one barrier (partial anyway) to you and your spouse being together where you wish to be. It's up to you to decide whether that's worth it to you; but it seems a small price to pay. Practicalities are another difficulty, but this is one thing you can actually do.

(None of this excuses in any way how those who reviewed your file handled it.)

And for others who may read this: yes, we do see cases like this where common law status is not accepted, or the relationship itself questioned. Twelve months living together should be seen as the MINIMUM. And that as well as other signs they'd like to see can be hard to demonstrate. Worried about your immigration file? Live together AND get married.
 
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passenger19

Hero Member
Feb 5, 2020
609
542
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Visa Office......
Warsaw
I doubt many relationships where a couple lives together for close to a year, have documents to show that and get married get rejected.

So yes, getting married does raise the likelihood of not getting rejected. Significantly. Not to 100%, but significantly.
Not that significantly when you got married right after refusal and then applied. Maybe I’m wrong but it seems suspicious. Because you didn’t get married just because you wanted to but because you had to.
 

armoured

VIP Member
Feb 1, 2015
17,286
8,892
Not that significantly when you got married right after refusal and then applied. Maybe I’m wrong but it seems suspicious. Because you didn’t get married just because you wanted to but because you had to.
I can't say 100% and we can't do a large number experiment to check, of course.

People who are in a marriage of convenience and non-serious relationships trying to get by on the minimum - they're the ones who stop.

Will they look at it carefully because of previous rejections? Sure.

But how many 'relationsihips of convenience' live together for close to a year, get rejected and then get married after (and start over)? (Usually they'd move to a different effort)

So yes, I believe getting married will increase your chances significantly. No guarantees, though.

Subsequent applications DO get approved, when they're solid. Make your subsequent application solid.
 

passenger19

Hero Member
Feb 5, 2020
609
542
Category........
FAM
Visa Office......
Warsaw
And the point I would say you ARE missing a little is that the point of a common law relationship having some status (historically and the way I think they approach) is that a real common law relatonship is every bit as real and serious as a 'civil marriage.' (Including legally depending on jurisdiction, but really complicated).

Whether it's naive or not, I don't know; but if you see a difference between 'getting married' and 'common law' to the extent that you don't want to get married for a (rather important) immigration reason, then you are actually demonstrating that you don't see marriage and common law as the same. You're kind of undermining your own case. You're not getting married 'just to get a visa' - you're getting married in a civil ceremony a bit earlier and in different circumstances..
I remember discussing this with you. Yes I know we can have 10 different weddings to be able to reapply. I completely understand your position. Just wanted to emphasize that this “beautiful wedding dream” gets delayed by money issues. That’s it. Not because I see differences between both marital statuses. When I said I don’t want to get married to get a visa I meant to say that I don’t want it in this particular circumstances after the refusal. I wish we could’ve gotten married instead of applying as CL. But now it seems so (too) complicated.
 
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passenger19

Hero Member
Feb 5, 2020
609
542
Category........
FAM
Visa Office......
Warsaw
To be clear, I'm not suggesting 10 different weddings 'to be able to reapply.' One simple civil ceremony whenever you can do so.

Yep, beautiful wedding dream gets delayed. Simple civil ceremony fine for now, do your big one later.

As for don't want to do do it 'after the refusal' - again I apologise for treading into the deep waters, but in a few places it sounds like you are letting your anger (entirely understandable anger) at the rejection influence next steps. That can lead to bad decisions. Canada didn't become a terrible or the wrong place for you and your spouse because of an annoying bureaucrat (not that it was perfect before either).
I appreciate your help and advice but please stop doubting my decisions whatever they are bad or not. As I said it’s too complicated right now, and it’s definitely more than just my anger. I simply don’t want to discuss it here, my whole story, sorry if this attempt to hid some private motives (reasons) sounded like I’m a mad lady who’s making decisions based on her anger or so. Maybe I’ll change my mind about wedding in some time, but surely not now. Now please leave me alone.
 

Bynming

Hero Member
Sep 8, 2018
205
137
35
Montréal
Category........
FAM
So I just got a message that says the IRCC office will sent my wife's passport back with a visa to the VAC on Nov 3. Warsaw also contacted me to say that "[her] immigrant visa will be valid till 8 December 2020. Please advise as soon as possible whether your spouse will depart for Canada before that date."

That means we're buying flights before we even receive the visa/copr and cross our fingers that the VAC doesn't mess things up.
 
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Bynming

Hero Member
Sep 8, 2018
205
137
35
Montréal
Category........
FAM
Sorry for the double post but this continues to drive me completely nuts. I swear I'm going to break down when she lands. We're forced to continue to exist in extreme uncertainty at the moment.

The IRCC office is sending the visa back to VFS in a week from now. We *HAVE* to land before December 8. The number of flights is limited so we need to book now without the documents in hand, because the flights might fill up. The available Star Alliance flights are Nov 28, Nov 30 and December 7th (which lands Dec 8).

Armoured (or anybody else), knowing that VFS is a bit slow, would you feel comfortable booking the November 28 flight? It would mean that she would be available to receive her passport in the mail up until November 24, that gives VFS 3 weeks to send it back.
 

armoured

VIP Member
Feb 1, 2015
17,286
8,892
Armoured (or anybody else), knowing that VFS is a bit slow, would you feel comfortable booking the November 28 flight? It would mean that she would be available to receive her passport in the mail up until November 24, that gives VFS 3 weeks to send it back.
Asking ME if I'm comfortable with VFS? No idea what to say, I've had no success with them. I probably would be but in Moscow is one thing, I forget where your spouse is.

But I presume they use a courier service, no decent courier service in Russia should take more than a week at most to deliver to a regional centre.

Perhaps ask VFS though how long it takes to send to your city?
 

Bynming

Hero Member
Sep 8, 2018
205
137
35
Montréal
Category........
FAM
Asking ME if I'm comfortable with VFS? No idea what to say, I've had no success with them. I probably would be but in Moscow is one thing, I forget where your spouse is.

But I presume they use a courier service, no decent courier service in Russia should take more than a week at most to deliver to a regional centre.

Perhaps ask VFS though how long it takes to send to your city?
She is from Novosibirsk.
I asked but I only get vague answers. This is insane. I'm going to try again.


Flight booked for Nov 30th and landing on Dec 1st. I am not a religious man but I'm making an exception for this.
 
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Mariaont5119

Star Member
Jan 21, 2020
80
73
Sorry for the double post but this continues to drive me completely nuts. I swear I'm going to break down when she lands. We're forced to continue to exist in extreme uncertainty at the moment.

The IRCC office is sending the visa back to VFS in a week from now. We *HAVE* to land before December 8. The number of flights is limited so we need to book now without the documents in hand, because the flights might fill up. The available Star Alliance flights are Nov 28, Nov 30 and December 7th (which lands Dec 8).

Armoured (or anybody else), knowing that VFS is a bit slow, would you feel comfortable booking the November 28 flight? It would mean that she would be available to receive her passport in the mail up until November 24, that gives VFS 3 weeks to send it back.
We did the exact same thing. Bought a tickets without visa and copr in hands. But I called them (VFS) everyday, and they did a great job at the end. We made it. Our flight was on October 8th at night, and in the morning at the same day we picked up the passport by ourselves in DHL without a courier bc we didn’t have enough time to wait. But it depends on situation, you have to decide on your own.
 
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Bynming

Hero Member
Sep 8, 2018
205
137
35
Montréal
Category........
FAM
We did the exact same thing. Bought a tickets without visa and copr in hands. But I called them (VFS) everyday, and they did a great job at the end. We made it. Our flight was on October 8th at night, and in the morning at the same day we picked up the passport by ourselves in DHL without a courier bc we didn’t have enough time to wait. But it depends on situation, you have to decide on your own.
I hope it works out for us! :)