Waiting times for a CIC Case Specific Enquiry

[indicansri]

I sent the webform of CIC asking them about options to disavow the oath ofallegiance of the citizenship ceremony.

As many before me seem to have unsuccessfully tried(https://www.theglobeandmail.com/new...hear-oath-to-queen-challenge/article23211504/), it is next to impossible for new citizens to take an oath to the Canadian flag, for example, instead of to the royalty represented by the sovereign.

As a citizen of the Republic of India, while I have nothing personal against Queen Elizabeth, she represents a dynasty that practiced colonialism that destroyed much of my homeland from 1857 to 1947.

What is the average wait time for any CIC Case Specific Enquiry? It'll be interesting to see if they take longer for my request.

 

[devnill]

You won't get an exemption from saying the oath, not sure why you think you would.

 

[scylla]

I sent the webform of CIC asking them about options to disavow the oath ofallegiance of the citizenship ceremony.

As many before me seem to have unsuccessfully tried(https://www.theglobeandmail.com/new...hear-oath-to-queen-challenge/article23211504/), it is next to impossible for new citizens to take an oath to the Canadian flag, for example, instead of to the royalty represented by the sovereign.

As a citizen of the Republic of India, while I have nothing personal against Queen Elizabeth, she represents a dynasty that practiced colonialism that destroyed much of my homeland from 1857 to 1947.

What is the average wait time for any CIC Case Specific Enquiry? It'll be interesting to see if they take longer for my request.

If you want to try this, you'll need to hire a lawyer and pursue this through the court systems. Submitting a case specific inquiry isn't going to do it.

Responses to case specific inquiries take a few weeks normally however you should be expecting longer right now due to COVID-19 and reduced staffing.

Good luck.

 

[indicansri]

You won't get an exemption from saying the oath, not sure why you think you would.

I didn't ask for a special exemption. Just asking for options that already exist for ANYONE who undergoes the citizenship ceremony.

 

[indicansri]

You won't get an exemption from saying the oath, not sure why you think you would.

Because the oath forces me to be loyal to a sovereign monarch and I've absolutely no intention of following that in practice. Like others before me, I find oath to a queen or king anachronistic in 2020.

But of course, I will be loyal to Canada as a nation.

I'm finding out what options exist for anyone who has objection to the oath. According to the article I shared in my post, there is a process of disavowal.

 

[scylla]

Because the oath forces me to be loyal to a sovereign monarch and I've absolutely no intention of following that in practice. Like others before me, I find oath to a queen or king anachronistic in 2020.

But of course, I will be loyal to Canada as a nation.

I'm finding out what options exist for anyone who has objection to the oath. According to the article I shared in my post, there is a process of disavowal.

There is no formal process to disavow.

You have to say the full oath to get citizenship.

Some people hand in a letter afterwards to disavow the part with the Queen. That's pretty much it to the best of my knowledge.

 

[devnill]

Because the oath forces me to be loyal to a sovereign monarch and I've absolutely no intention of following that in practice. Like others before me, I find oath to a queen or king anachronistic in 2020.

As someone also from a country where the English ruled and destroyed for many more years than India, I understand your objections. To me anyway, the oath is pretty meaningless. I don't agree with monarchy and saying an oath isn't going to change that and Canada will allow me to continue to express this opinion freely.

In any case, I'm sure you knew before coming to Canada that the Queen (or King) of England is the head of state and the content of the oath is well known. You could have chosen to immigrate elsewhere if it means that much to you.

 

[PMM]

zhi

As someone also from a country where the English ruled and destroyed for many more years than India, I understand your objections. To me anyway, the oath is pretty meaningless. I don't agree with monarchy and saying an oath isn't going to change that and Canada will allow me to continue to express this opinion freely.

In any case, I'm sure you knew before coming to Canada that the Queen (or King) of England is the head of state and the content of the oath is well known. You could have chosen to immigrate elsewhere if it means that much to you.

1. Also no one forces the OP to become a citizen, s/he can remain a PR forever if they wish.
2. Interesting being born in India unless one of your parents is Indian citizen, doesn't give you citizenship.
3. And people think that 3 years residency in Canada in the 5 years prior to the application is burden, but to take India as an example,

. By Naturalisation (section 6):
Citizenship of India by naturalization can be acquired by a foreigner (not being an illegal
migrant) who is ordinarily resident in India for twelve years (throughout the period of twelve
months immediately preceding the date of application and for eleven years in the aggregate in
the fourteen years preceding the twelve months) and fulfils other qualifications as specified in
third schedule to the act, 1955.

 

[hawk39]

Because the oath forces me to be loyal to a sovereign monarch and I've absolutely no intention of following that in practice. Like others before me, I find oath to a queen or king anachronistic in 2020.

According to the Canadian government's website, Canada is still a constitutional monarchy, the queen is still the head of state, so she is still part of the oath. It does not matter if it is seems anarchronistic, it's part of the tradition, history and heritage of Canada. If you want to be a true Canadian citizen, then this is something you will have to accept.

 

[indicansri]

As someone also from a country where the English ruled and destroyed for many more years than India, I understand your objections. To me anyway, the oath is pretty meaningless. I don't agree with monarchy and saying an oath isn't going to change that and Canada will allow me to continue to express this opinion freely.

In any case, I'm sure you knew before coming to Canada that the Queen (or King) of England is the head of state and the content of the oath is well known. You could have chosen to immigrate elsewhere if it means that much to you.

Absolutely. My understanding is that there is a republican movement in Canada. Also there are several Canadian citizens such as First Nations people , some French Canadians, with different reasons, who have no regard for the monarchy.

Content of the oath isn't known all that well outside of Canada and as I learned from the Globe and Mail article shared in my earlier post, this has been contested in Candian courts by other immigrants and dismissed.
Both publicly disavowing the 'allegiance to the queen' part and remaining as permanent residents are reasonable options. I'll contact CIC for details of disavowal and decide an appropriate course of action.

 

[scylla]

Absolutely. My understanding is that there is a republican movement in Canada. Also there are several Canadian citizens such as First Nations people , some French Canadians, with different reasons, who have no regard for the monarchy.

Content of the oath isn't known all that well outside of Canada and as I learned from the Globe and Mail article shared in my earlier post, this has been contested in Candian courts by other immigrants and dismissed.
Both publicly disavowing the 'allegiance to the queen' part and remaining as permanent residents are reasonable options. I'll contact CIC for details of disavowal and decide an appropriate course of action.

Again, there's no official / formal disavowal process. No point contacting IRCC.

 

[issteven]

I sent the webform of CIC asking them about options to disavow the oath ofallegiance of the citizenship ceremony.

As many before me seem to have unsuccessfully tried(https://www.theglobeandmail.com/new...hear-oath-to-queen-challenge/article23211504/), it is next to impossible for new citizens to take an oath to the Canadian flag, for example, instead of to the royalty represented by the sovereign.

As a citizen of the Republic of India, while I have nothing personal against Queen Elizabeth, she represents a dynasty that practiced colonialism that destroyed much of my homeland from 1857 to 1947.

What is the average wait time for any CIC Case Specific Enquiry? It'll be interesting to see if they take longer for my request.

i think oath is an essential part of citizenship, if you get rid of it, you will have to abandon your citizenship as well.

 

[indicansri]

Well, according to the Globe and Mail article, the Court of Appeal for Ontario gave the disavowal process as a reason why it won't change the oath. That's the word of the highest court of the land. So, one would think it surely exists. I'm sure in a mature democracy like Canada, there is a precedent somewhere to accommodate divergent views about monarchy. I'm fairly certain I won't be breaking any new ground.

 

[canuck_in_uk]

Well, according to the Globe and Mail article, the Supreme Court of Canada gave the disavowal process as a reason why it won't change the oath. That's the word of the highest court of the land. So, one would think it surely exists. I'm sure in a mature democracy like Canada, there is a precedent somewhere to accommodate divergent views about monarchy. I'm fairly certain I won't be breaking any new ground.

Again, there is no actual "disavowal process". You can say the oath, become a citizen and then disavow however you choose. Do it at the ceremony or go on Facebook/Twitter/TV/radio/internet or whatever public medium you want and use whatever words you want. That's it.

 

[rajkamalmohanram]

"...bear true allegiance to Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II, Queen of Canada, her heirs and successors..."

While I'm not super thrilled either about having to pledge allegiance to a British monarch and her lineage, it is a part of the process of becoming a Canadian citizen. I would like to be fully integrated into this system - becoming a citizen does play an important part in that. For that reason, I will repeat the oath, every word of it. It doesn't bother me too much anymore.

The courts have previously ruled that the meaning of the oath is being misinterpreted (being taken 'too' literally). Apparently, the reference to the queen in the oath isn't a reference to the actual person. Below is an excerpt (See source) -

They were trying to challenge an Ontario Court of Appeal ruling issued last August that the group was wrong to take the oath literally. That decision, citing previous Canadian court rulings, held that new citizens are not swearing allegiance to the Queen herself and that "the reference to the Queen is symbolic of our form of government and the unwritten constitutional principle of democracy."

Having said that, a 2014 Ontario court decision highlighted the right of people to publicly disavow the allegiance to a monarch (See Source). This upholds your freedom of expression. There are several people who did publicly recant the allegiance to the queen (some people did this immediately towards the end of the citizenship ceremony). If this really bothers you that much, you might want to go for this option then.

As for the oath itself, you can't skip those words. You must recite the complete oath in order to become a Canadian citizen.

In the end, what really matters is that we should respect the constitution and the laws of Canada and be a good Canadian.