Voluntary removal from Canada after 13 years of visiting for snowmobiling

[irishsnowmobiler]

(Three key questions at the end, if you wish to skip details of my still 'raw' experience.

Planned trip to Canada this Feb blown up in my face. Arrived at Vancouver for a night's stopover to Whitehorse, Yukon. British citizen but living and working as a teacher of English in Poland. Travelled Vienna-London-Vancouver with BA

Got asked a few questions. Asked about flight ticket, accommodation etc. Then, asked if I was meeting up with anyone. I said no. Big mistake
Actually meeting up next day with a guy from Toronto to fly to Whitehorse. CBSA clerk asked about connecting flight. I had details of both my flight and his.

"So you are meeting with someone". Questions about who, from where, how do we know each other.
Stamped my card, thought all was ok, picked up luggage, showed card to leave and was asked to move to the side office. Young lady asked me more questions.Asked same questions, searched baggage. Asked how I know him. We had not met before but through a snowmobiling site. Asked for his phone number. I was tired , couldnt find my diary and mumbled it's on my email. She said do you have the password, and STUPIDLY I GAVE IT TO HER. i was paying for the rental of two snowmobiles so she interpreted this as 'money passing between us'. To cut a long story short, she thought I was paying for his services. I was sick to my stomach. She offered me the possibility of going to a tribunal etc in 2-3 days (this was Sat night) or a voluntary removal. She said this meant I could return to Canada without any black mark on my name, the next day even. ...MY QUESTIONS. Given she tricked me into giving her my email password without a warrant, I have cause to be dubious about anything she says. Will this mean I can enter Canada again, presumably without a black mark. Or will there be some kind of 'flag' againat my name. Should I expect to be subject to such demeaning questions again. Any advice, constructive comments appreciated.

 

[PMM]

Hi

(Three key questions at the end, if you wish to skip details of my still 'raw' experience.

Planned trip to Canada this Feb blown up in my face. Arrived at Vancouver for a night's stopover to Whitehorse, Yukon. British citizen but living and working as a teacher of English in Poland. Travelled Vienna-London-Vancouver with BA

Got asked a few questions. Asked about flight ticket, accommodation etc. Then, asked if I was meeting up with anyone. I said no. Big mistake
Actually meeting up next day with a guy from Toronto to fly to Whitehorse. CBSA clerk asked about connecting flight. I had details of both my flight and his.

"So you are meeting with someone". Questions about who, from where, how do we know each other.
Stamped my card, thought all was ok, picked up luggage, showed card to leave and was asked to move to the side office. Young lady asked me more questions.Asked same questions, searched baggage. Asked how I know him. We had not met before but through a snowmobiling site. Asked for his phone number. I was tired , couldnt find my diary and mumbled it's on my email. She said do you have the password, and STUPIDLY I GAVE IT TO HER. i was paying for the rental of two snowmobiles so she interpreted this as 'money passing between us'. To cut a long story short, she thought I was paying for his services. I was sick to my stomach. She offered me the possibility of going to a tribunal etc in 2-3 days (this was Sat night) or a voluntary removal. She said this meant I could return to Canada without any black mark on my name, the next day even. ...MY QUESTIONS. Given she tricked me into giving her my email password without a warrant, I have cause to be dubious about anything she says. Will this mean I can enter Canada again, presumably without a black mark. Or will there be some kind of 'flag' againat my name. Should I expect to be subject to such demeaning questions again. Any advice, constructive comments appreciated.

1. CBSA doesn't require a warrant to search.
2. Yes, you voluntary removal will flag you for your next entry.

 

[irishsnowmobiler]

Thanks for the reply.

(a) When you say flagged, that means the issue of voluntary removal will be noted against my name no matter which city I enter?
(b) When she said there'd be no black mark, does a 'flag' count as a black mark or are details expunged?
(c) Should I expect to be questioned in detail about my last visit?
The CBSA website says voluntary removal allows for the circumstances to be corrected which is very bland and uninformative

 

[PMM]

Hi

Thanks for the reply.

(a) When you say flagged, that means the issue of voluntary removal will be noted against my name no matter which city I enter?
(b) When she said there'd be no black mark, does a 'flag' count as a black mark or are details expunged?
(c) Should I expect to be questioned in detail about my last visit?
The CBSA website says voluntary removal allows for the circumstances to be corrected which is very bland and uninformative

1. The withdrawal will show up every time you enter Canada and you name/passport is scanned. Whether you consider it a "black mark" is up to you, but your intentions will questions on admission.

 

[Baloo]

Actually she was quite reasonable, you could have been banned from visiting Canada for a couple of years.
You lied to her about meeting someone, so she was suspicious about money passing between you and the person you were going to meet.

You may well have been tired, so don't take my comment as a judgement; but as you now know, the only way to deal with immigration is to be honest.


You will be flagged, but in all honesty, if you follow the rules about visiting Canada (and carry as much supporting documentation as you can) you should be OK.


You are visa exempt, but the information still applies.
http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/visit/index.asp

What was the process that you went through after you made the choice to leave?

 

[irishsnowmobiler]

Thanks Baloo: no offence taken. I arrived at 20:00 but my body (and mind) were working on Irish time of 5am the next day.

You say 'reasonable' but I've never been accused, or at least the insinuation has never been made that I was hiring a gigolo...that was what it was made to feel like....that would rankle with anyone.

In answer to your question about the process I went through after I was aksed to leave
After making the choice to leave, they took my passport, gave me a verified copy and allowed me to stay at my planned overnight stop hotel in Vancouver although, in theory, I could have been held in a detention facility.

The return flight to the UK was at 8pm the next day so I reported at 6pm to retrieve my passport.

Can the CBSA demand the password to your email account without a warrant as the previous poster said....very bemused at that.

 

[Baloo]

No warrant is required by CBSA, so even if you don't provide it they can do what they want

Of course, UK customs have the same sort of power.

IMO try DHS/TSA in the USA - they are far worse... "Holding" a laptop (as long as they want) can (and does) happen. They can clone the drive if they want to look at the data.
Many of my business associates do not travel with an "open" computer, because business data can be compromised.

After making the choice to leave, they took my passport, gave me a verified copy and allowed me to stay at my planned overnight stop hotel in Vancouver although, in theory, I could have been held in a detention facility.

That was the part I was looking for. I know it doesn't feel like it but she did cut you some slack.
The biggest issue is that most visa exempt folks never read the CIC rules before getting to Canada.
I know I didn't, until after my first secondary screening experience.

 

[irishsnowmobiler]

Did you survive the screening experience?
You were allowed in?

What would have happened if I hadn't given the password?
(My fault, my friend's number was in the diary....15secs looking for it would've maybe saved the situation.)

What cheesed me off was being in the same interview area as a 40-something Iraqi explaining why he had $5000 in cash , a data projector yet claiming a modest salary and a Chinese woman trying to explain why she had $20,000 in cash. She claimed $10,000 was hers and the rest her 17-yr-old daughter's, as if that was going to wash....it was explained to her the daughter's $10k was legally hers as well due to her age....

 

[irishsnowmobiler]

At least FlyAirNorth offered 100% refund of my airfare (even waived the $80 fee).
BA changed flight with no fee although I'm assuming that because CBSA asked, airlines maybe have a special arrangement.

Unlike the tightwad snowmobile hirer in Whitehorse...wired a total of $3200 [edit: actually $2104, so a smaller 'hit' but not painless] for hire of 2 snowmobiles + guide etc. for 3 days
Said that cancellation after 7 days not possible. I know the guide had been hired etc, but something like 25% should be possible....
Expensive domino effect.

 

[lektor]

I think you could just next time visit Vancouver, book a best Western Hotel for 5 days, have the confirmation, have some tourist itinerary prepared
then fly domestically to Whitehorse. Through Best Western you don't pay anything if you cancel by 4pm
You can have your domestic flight, hotel elsewhere and snowmobile hire etc wherever you want (just don't have the documentation on you. Keep it on email and print it out at hotel. only have the internation flight and hotel stay printed out along with some tourist attraction printouts etc.
It would look like a 5-day excursion to Vancouver plus a hotel stay.
Make sure no one else is mentioned on your documentation.
I went with a friend from Waterloo and he came to halifax and we travelled to New brunswick.
It was the same rigmarole....who is he, what age, how did you meet, how long blah blah blah
We had met through a single skiers website but was made to feel it was some kind of dating or gay thing.
Made me sick.
We got through after a phone call to the guy. Bitch at CBSA made us feel as if she was doing us a favour.

From then on, just had no problems. I don't seem to have been flagged, though, of course I didn't have a voluntary removal.
AS FOR THE SNOWMOBILE RENTAL IN YUKON.....when I went to Bathuirst we paid when we arrived, with a credit card charge etc, there was nothing to pay beforehand. That sucks, as you say the staff might need paying, and the guide also etc, but the snowmobiles aren't being used, no fuel etc. As an ESL teacher, if I have a late cancellation I only get 50% from the school/client. Unlucky. That must have been a long flight to Vancouver and then back and then to Europe again. But, no one died and there are worse situations in the world....

 

[irishsnowmobiler]

Thanks Lektor.

Some practical tips there though it looks like I may well get a secondary screening,
though maybe that's not guaranteed if the first round of questions goes ok.