US cit moving to Canada. Just bring copy of "in process" PR app to airport?

[4maple-1eagle]

I am US Citizen, Wife is the Canadian Citizen sponsor of my P.R. app, and our 3 kids have Canadian cit cards. We are about to send away my application for Permanent residency in Canada in late March. All 5 of us are planning to fly across from USA to Ontario in June, with our stuff being shipped behind us.

My application obviously still be in process. Will I have any problem at the border in Toronto airport? If I just tote a complete copy of my sponsorship and permanent residency application, is that good enough to get across? Thank you so much for any insight.

 

[doctorkb]

it's dicey. I'd offer as little information as you can.

Technically, without a PR visa, you can't "move" to Canada, nor can you "live" here. You can, however, "visit". If the immigration officer at the airport believes you are "moving" (i.e. giving up your US residence and ties to that country, in lieu of seeking similar Canadian ones), s/he may deny you entry.

 

[4maple-1eagle]

Thanks for your reply. Since I'm a US citizen, I don't need a visa (so I read on CIC). Does that make any difference? But if I "visit", then I am not allowed to bring our household belongings. Your cautions are well taken. It has been suggested to me many times that I should have my wife go across to Canada with the kids and the list of household belongings (to be shipped behind them) and that I come across as a Visitor, separately. It seems like such a charade which I have no desire to participate in. I also don't see how that is even possible, for under such a move where she traveled separately with our children, I would have to provide a signed letter, explaining (lying) why she is traveling separately. Any ideas on a legit alternative I could entertain?

Truth is, we don't know how permanent our move to Canada will be. But it is unhelpful for me to just swing in as a visitor, as we have 3 young kids, and coming across with just our luggage is not helpful. Any ideas?

 

[doctorkb]

Well, as you're aware, your wife and children can certainly "move" to Canada. It's a right of citizenship (and, to a lesser extent, permanent residency).

And you're correct, you don't need a visitor visa, BUT you do need a visa to precipitate your PR landing. That will be given to you at the end of the PR application process.

The fact of the matter is that it's very much up to the IO. If they things you're going to stay in Canada, they MAY deny you entry. If you can somehow show them when you're going to leave the country and provide some plausible assurance, they'll likely let you in.

Remember that this is typically for a maximum of six months.

I know this sounds like a "charade" or even a game, but it's what they're looking at. If you tell the God's-honest-truth at the border and say "yes, we're moving to Canada," you WILL NOT be allowed entry without the PR visa -- at least not by a border guard that follows the rules.

Furthermore, even if you ARE allowed in, you won't be able to work, so your wife will need to show proof of income or you'll have to have substantial proof of savings in order to show that you can support yourselves in Canada.

Your only other option is to stay in the US until you have that hot little PR visa stamped in your passport. This seems to be taking about 4-5 months now for "normal" applications through Buffalo. Of course, there are some that have taken much longer, but that is where it seems to be at.

 

[4maple-1eagle]

Thanks for your candor. So I see that on the CIC site cic.gc.ca/english/information/faq/immigrate/sponsor/spouse-faq12.asp that when a Canadian Citizen is sponsoring a spouse from Outside Canada, one "can leave and re-enter Canada while your application is being processed as long as you meet all requirements to enter Canada". (It doesn't say what those requirements are, right here).

Am I misunderstanding this? Requirements to "visit" Canada from the US aren't particularly extensive. Doesn't this suggest i could even let the IO know that I've applied for permanent residency, but am visiting in the interim ?

 

[doctorkb]

Thanks for your candor. So I see that on the CIC site cic.gc.ca/english/information/faq/immigrate/sponsor/spouse-faq12.asp that when a Canadian Citizen is sponsoring a spouse from Outside Canada, one "can leave and re-enter Canada while your application is being processed as long as you meet all requirements to enter Canada". (It doesn't say what those requirements are, right here).

Am I misunderstanding this? Requirements to "visit" Canada from the US aren't particularly extensive. Doesn't this suggest i could even let the IO know that I've applied for permanent residency, but am visiting in the interim ?

That latter bit is acceptable -- that's what my wife is doing here. We did, however, have to provide the IO with sufficient assurance that she would not overstay her visit with a clear plan for when and why she would be leaving the country. Even then, it was a challenge and it was only by God's grace that she stamped the passport.

You would do best to have a return ticket or a significant family event that you *must* return to the US for -- that will give the IO some reassurance that you will indeed leave.

Once you're in Canada, you can apply to renew the visitor status -- you may want to ask the IO to stamp the passport if they seem nice (and hand it back to you unstamped).

As for the "requirements to visit" -- they aren't all that extensive for Americans... but there is still an "intent to leave" that must be satisfied. Americans are lucky in that regard -- apparently most other countries (i.e. those that require a visa to come here) aren't able to get visitor visas for the duration of the PR app.

 

[4maple-1eagle]

Thanks Doc. Much appreciated. I think I'm slowly navigating the correct path here. In this latter solution path, I do have a family event in August and an alumni event in October that I do need to return to, and will get a RTN ticket. In so doing, theoretically then, fully disclosing that my permRes app is in process and that I'm visiting in the short-term shouldn't conflict at all with my wife showing them our "list of posessions" that will be shipped to us shortly after arrival. Does all this seem pretty straightforward to you? THanks again for your comments.

 

[doctorkb]

Thanks Doc. Much appreciated. I think I'm slowly navigating the correct path here. In this latter solution path, I do have a family event in August and an alumni event in October that I do need to return to, and will get a RTN ticket. In so doing, theoretically then, fully disclosing that my permRes app is in process and that I'm visiting in the short-term shouldn't conflict at all with my wife showing them our "list of posessions" that will be shipped to us shortly after arrival. Does all this seem pretty straightforward to you? THanks again for your comments.

I'm not sure what is to be done about the list of possessions. How are you having them shipped? If "later" means after you have PR, then don't bother -- keep that list as one that YOU will declare when you land as a PR. If by "later" you mean in a week, by a moving company's truck, see what they require and recommend. It's possible that you don't need to declare that at all when you enter, which will make it a much smaller issue at the border.

 

[AlieW]

I'm gathering your wife has been out of Canada for quite some time, as such she is entitled to the same 'list of goods to follow" as an individual who is landing as a PR. (As a citizen you either need to have been out of canada for over a year, or a resident of another country to qualify).

If you want the goods to come with you before you have your PR just have her list everything on her list of goods to follow.

 

[4maple-1eagle]

Thanks. Yes, my Canadian citizen wife has been living in US (green card) for years, so its definitely over a year. The question is, if all 5 of us are standing there talking to the IO (she the CDN citizen, our 3 canadian citizen kids and me the US husband, with PR app "in process", but asking to "visit" in the interim) will the IO frown, if she produces a list of possessions (like on a 20ft truck, to be shipped arriving in 1-2 weeks when we secure a home to live in) ... the question is whether that is a problem for the I.O. Can she be allowed to return to Canada, with the stuff, and me come along to, but as a visitor. What will I be told by the IO?

I will certainly book a return ticket. I plan to come back to the US to attend a college alumni event, visit family etc. We can document savings to survive, and we still a home together in the US that was previously our primary residence.

I have read in several places that one can "visit" Canada even while the PR app is in process, as long as I can show the IO that I will return, but its not clear in those FAQ, whether I have to show that I'm returning for good or just "for awhile" In all probability, it I submit the PR app now, it will be approved within 6-12 months, while I am "visiting Canada".

Any tips or experience on what issues / problems I might encounter ?

 

[4maple-1eagle]

OK, I finally (after HOURS and HOURS and HOURS and HOURS of searching) found the document I was looking for (the actual Canadian Gov't guide that IO's are supposed to reference for Interviewing, and the real skinny on the whole question about visiting with a PermRes app in process). Its called Dual-Intent, and its totally legit, as I hoped. This doc has their templates for questions to ask and categories of refusual letters, everything. This is it, from the horses mouth! For anyone else who is interested... www.cic.gc.ca/english/resources/manuals/op/op11-eng.pdf Its a 41pg Gov't PDF.

Still need to find the same type of document with their guides for what minimum level of financial support that is required, and rules about bringing your possessions.

 

[TreeLover]

Thanks for the document link, 4maple1eagle. I wish I had that before I crossed 5 months ago. All went well though anyway, but we did what everyone said not to do and crossed with a uhaul trailer. Although everything in the trailer was my partner's (the Canadian) and my stuff was in my car which was towing the trailer. He had done an earlier move on his own too, with his truck.

Where you planning on bringing ALL of your belongings with you? I know they won't be with you, so maybe it's easier that way then. We were crossing via car, so I didn't bring all of my things with me (non-essential items), so I put them in storage. We sold most of our furniture, so we didn't have that many big items in the uhaul. Of course, some of the stuff in the uhaul was "ours" as in some furniture and kitchen items, but we said they were just "his."

The things that I did was make sure we paid the fees and I did the medical before we crossed. I showed the IO my application and he looked through it and said that I shouldn't have a problem being approved. We hadn't filed it yet because we were still waiting for the FBI certificate. It's better, of course, if you have already filed it and received the sponsorship approval, so you have that to show them. Paying the fees and doing the medical before you cross shows that you are serious about filing it (if you haven't done so yet). Also, I made copies of all my recent bank statements to show I had money to live on. My partner was unemployed at the time of crossing.

They will ask you if you own or rent a home in the USA. They asked me this and I didn't want to lie, of course, so I told the truth and said that my things were in storage in WA. The IO laughed when I said this - I'm sure he's heard that before. But what else could I say? He was nice though and I got a 9 month visitor record. I haven't crossed over again in the past 5 months. The application was filed 4 months ago, so I'm hoping it'll be finalized soon.

 

[AllisonVSC]

4Maple,

Here is one step beyond the return ticket to consider. Ask a friend or family member to draw up a lease for you to rent a room for a set period (say august to the end of the year) after you arrive in Canada. Then you can say that you are visiting to help your wife and kids move and get settled and then plan to return to the states for the family event in August and the alumni event in October (show return ticket, the rsvp proof and payment for the alumni event, PR app in process, and present the lease as a place of residence) while you wait out the processing. It won't be a lie since you will have made the arrangements. So if you get into Canada with a short visitor record you actually will have a place to stay back home, and if you get in unencumbered with a leave by date, you can decide whether or not to visit and wait out processing in Canada. Just a thought.