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JERiv

Star Member
Jul 4, 2017
71
61
Texas
why would you get Canada PR being a US Citizen :)
Sooo.... adding to what @moose17 and @trumprefugee said...

1) I know Indians in particular think the USA is the Land of Opportunity. You've been sold this fallacy that just making it here you'll own a house, cars, be middle-class, make tons of money, and your kids will all become doctors and lawyers. Very, very few Americans actually ever get to achieve this. Much less immigrants that have to fight to even get some modicum of stability due to lack of permanent residency. It's a fantasy in this day and age. In the 1950s, an American (White only) straight out of high school could get a job without a college degree that would pay for his house, his stay-at-home wife, his kids' (heavily subsidized) education, his own (heavily subsidized) education if he later wanted to have it, and save up enough money for retirement. Nowadays, those very old folk think a kid graduating college with $100-200K in debt working at Starbucks, McDonalds, and Walmart because he/she can't get a job is a lazy person who just isn't working hard enough. It never crosses their mind that 2018 is NOT 1950, where the government subsidized almost everything, there was a much stronger social safety net, and White Americans didn't have to compete against anyone else because those undesirables (women or minorities) wouldn't be hired.

2) The social safety net of today in the USA is absolute garbage. About the only way you could think otherwise is if you came from a country where there is an even worse social safety net. In which case, you're comparing a rotten apple with a rotten banana. They're still both rotten and you wouldn't eat either of them unless they're your only choices and you're desperate.

3) As an immigrant in the USA, you won't even be able to really partake in the "American Dream" until you become a resident. And the USA immigration system is absolute hell. My wife has an uncle who is a PhD in Chemistry, has decades of work in the petrochemical industry, but it still took 20 years for him to get his green card. Twenty years. I've worked with a lot of Infosys and Cognizant folks (I worked in IT). If you tried to go the Green Card route and come here with an H1B visa while working it, you will likely be treated badly, worked like a slave, disliked by a lot of your peers (especially those who don't know you) because they'll think you're taking their jobs for lower pay, and you'd have to put up with it for a decade or two to even get a chance to become a permanent resident.

4) The minute something goes wrong (i.e. medical emergency, immigration snafu, job loss, you get accused of god knows what), you'll either go into a downwards spiral of debt and bankruptcy, or potentially be thrown out of the Country. Because there is no social safety net, and you're not a permanent resident. Plus you're at the mercy of the Federal Government, which routinely goes Republican and then treats immigrants (non-White ones in particular, somehow they're never worried about European immigrants) like some sort of parasite they need to expunge, even if only to keep their base of rabid ignorant bigots, who love to blame others who don't look like them, happy.

5) Depending on where you live, if your skin is dark (like mine, I'm Latino US born), you will feel the prejudice and racism. You could ignore it. But sometimes it gets weird. I've gone into restaurants and felt a hairs-in-the-back-of-your-neck-rising feeling of "you are not welcome". Interestingly enough, that was both in Connecticut and in Virginia, not here in Texas. In both cases, I was with my wife and asked her if she noticed anything weird in there, and in both cases, she said "I thought it was just me!" In some places, it's worse. I've driven though Texas, and there are Confederate Flags flying in cars, or plastered in windows in some places. For most minorities here in the USA, seeing a Confederate Flag is equivalent to a Jew seeing a Nazi flag. So although you might feel welcome in many places, you will also run into many others where you will be treated like a literal invader.

6) It's hard to explain to non-Americans just how horrifying the USA's morbid obsession with owning guns is. It's both horrifying and shocking. Unless you really love guns, until you're in a room with random folk who are openly carrying weapons, you won't really understand just how bad it can be. And anyone can get a gun here. Anyone. Heck, you can buy them at Walmart. Oh, but if you're a minority and openly carry a gun, be prepared to potentially be shot down by either police or a gun wielding "patriot" who thinks you're a shooter. Even if it's a toy gun (it's happened multiple times now). And both of them would walk free, because our justice system is heavily prejudiced. Look up "stand your ground" laws. Avoid any states that have them.

7) Racism, bigotry, and sexism are all alive and well here in the USA. Unless you're White and Male, you will likely have at least a somewhat hard time making it here. Not that racism, bigotry, sexism, and prejudice don't exist in other parts of the World. But if anyone thinks they don't exit here, they're sadly mistaken.

8) You'll also be running into some very weird, freaky religions here. Think "Children of the Corn"/"Stepford Wives"/flat-out brainwashed/prosperity gospel type stuff, or even weirder.

9) And lastly, things here change slooooowly. The USA government is structured in such a way that it encourages gridlock. I truly have no faith that things will change for the better in the next decade or two (or 4).

10) I just realized. I didn't even add, the thing that finally drove us over the edge is Trump. The man's a lunatic, and his supporters are worse. Even with all of the above, it's only when reality truly slaps you in the face that you realize that you've been sunk into a stupor for the past several decades, and you either need to act to get out of it or accept the status quo. For us, the path was of action, and that's why we're now proudly Canadian PRs.

... ok, got that out of my system.

Ok. The USA is not really that horrible a place to live. There are much worse places to live in. And once you make it in, it's not that bad a place. But there are better choices out there. And be aware that unless you make ungodly amounts of money in your lifetime, you will likely have a very hard time later in life trying to pay for your children's education, trying to retire, and trying to afford your elderly healthcare expenses. My wife and I joke that currently, we're part of what some folk call "White Socialism" (link to article on that below). As long as you belong, you may be ok, at least for now. The moment you fall off, heaven help you.

White Socialism explained: https://www.forbes.com/sites/chrisladd/2017/03/13/unspeakable-realities-block-universal-health-coverage-in-the-us

Summary: At least for us, that's why even though we're US citizens, we got our Canadian PR. We think the best thing we can do for our children is try to get them to Canadian Citizenship. Plus in Canada, we might actually be able to afford their college education, our own retirement, and our future medical expenses.
 
Last edited:

nehk2

Newbie
Jul 2, 2013
3
0
Hello everyone,

Being engg (BE) graduate from India and working in USA from last 10 years on h1-b visa, how are chance of getting selected for express entry PR? I have total 15 years of exp in IT industry.

Even I would suggest if you could suggest how to start with express entry Canadian PR??

Reply appreciated.
 

northern sunshine

Hero Member
Mar 22, 2017
674
715
USA
Category........
FSW
Visa Office......
Ottawa
NOC Code......
2112
App. Filed.......
12-06-2018
AOR Received.
12-06-2018
Med's Done....
02-06-2018
Passport Req..
26-07-2018
LANDED..........
23-02-2019
Hello everyone,

Being engg (BE) graduate from India and working in USA from last 10 years on h1-b visa, how are chance of getting selected for express entry PR? I have total 15 years of exp in IT industry.

Even I would suggest if you could suggest how to start with express entry Canadian PR??

Reply appreciated.
Plug in your information to the CRS calculator. If your are near or above 430 points (this is an estimate based on past cutoffs; it may change in the future), your chances of getting PR through express entry are pretty good. If you don't have recent English or French exam scores, you will need to take one or both exams before you can apply for EE, but you can estimate about what your scores would be for the purposes of this calculator. You can change your responses to see the impact of, for example, improving your English proficiency or obtaining another degree. All the information you need to apply to EE is on the EE website. There are also many, many posts on this forum that you can refer to and should read. Use the search function for more specific questions.
 
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neal846

Member
Mar 21, 2018
10
0
I received the request to submit my and my dependents passports for confirmation of permanent residence. Me and my wife are Indian Citizens, hodling Indian passports. Our son was born in the United States and is a US citizen and holds a US passport. From the email instructions, I have to send my and my wife's original passports for confirmation of permanent residence. The email also says if you are a US citizen, then you don't need to send the passport, you can just send the photo copy. My question is, should I send my son's original passport along with our passports or should I send only the photo copy of my son's passport? Please help.
 

DEEPCUR

Champion Member
Apr 12, 2016
2,428
642
Sooo.... adding to what @moose17 and @trumprefugee said...

1) I know Indians in particular think the USA is the Land of Opportunity. You've been sold this fallacy that just making it here you'll own a house, cars, be middle-class, make tons of money, and your kids will all become doctors and lawyers. Very, very few Americans actually ever get to achieve this. Much less immigrants that have to fight to even get some modicum of stability due to lack of permanent residency. It's a fantasy in this day and age. In the 1950s, an American (White only) straight out of high school could get a job without a college degree that would pay for his house, his stay-at-home wife, his kids' (heavily subsidized) education, his own (heavily subsidized) education if he later wanted to have it, and save up enough money for retirement. Nowadays, those very old folk think a kid graduating college with $100-200K in debt working at Starbucks, McDonalds, and Walmart because he/she can't get a job is a lazy person who just isn't working hard enough. It never crosses their mind that 2018 is NOT 1950, where the government subsidized almost everything, there was a much stronger social safety net, and White Americans didn't have to compete against anyone else because those undesirables (women or minorities) wouldn't be hired.

2) The social safety net of today in the USA is absolute garbage. About the only way you could think otherwise is if you came from a country where there is an even worse social safety net. In which case, you're comparing a rotten apple with a rotten banana. They're still both rotten and you wouldn't eat either of them unless they're your only choices and you're desperate.

3) As an immigrant in the USA, you won't even be able to really partake in the "American Dream" until you become a resident. And the USA immigration system is absolute hell. My wife has an uncle who is a PhD in Chemistry, has decades of work in the petrochemical industry, but it still took 20 years for him to get his green card. Twenty years. I've worked with a lot of Infosys and Cognizant folks (I worked in IT). If you tried to go the Green Card route and come here with an H1B visa while working it, you will likely be treated badly, worked like a slave, disliked by a lot of your peers (especially those who don't know you) because they'll think you're taking their jobs for lower pay, and you'd have to put up with it for a decade or two to even get a chance to become a permanent resident.

4) The minute something goes wrong (i.e. medical emergency, immigration snafu, job loss, you get accused of god knows what), you'll either go into a downwards spiral of debt and bankruptcy, or potentially be thrown out of the Country. Because there is no social safety net, and you're not a permanent resident. Plus you're at the mercy of the Federal Government, which routinely goes Republican and then treats immigrants (non-White ones in particular, somehow they're never worried about European immigrants) like some sort of parasite they need to expunge, even if only to keep their base of rabid ignorant bigots, who love to blame others who don't look like them, happy.

5) Depending on where you live, if your skin is dark (like mine, I'm Latino US born), you will feel the prejudice and racism. You could ignore it. But sometimes it gets weird. I've gone into restaurants and felt a hairs-in-the-back-of-your-neck-rising feeling of "you are not welcome". Interestingly enough, that was both in Connecticut and in Virginia, not here in Texas. In both cases, I was with my wife and asked her if she noticed anything weird in there, and in both cases, she said "I thought it was just me!" In some places, it's worse. I've driven though Texas, and there are Confederate Flags flying in cars, or plastered in windows in some places. For most minorities here in the USA, seeing a Confederate Flag is equivalent to a Jew seeing a Nazi flag. So although you might feel welcome in many places, you will also run into many others where you will be treated like a literal invader.

6) It's hard to explain to non-Americans just how horrifying the USA's morbid obsession with owning guns is. It's both horrifying and shocking. Unless you really love guns, until you're in a room with random folk who are openly carrying weapons, you won't really understand just how bad it can be. And anyone can get a gun here. Anyone. Heck, you can buy them at Walmart. Oh, but if you're a minority and openly carry a gun, be prepared to potentially be shot down by either police or a gun wielding "patriot" who thinks you're a shooter. Even if it's a toy gun (it's happened multiple times now). And both of them would walk free, because our justice system is heavily prejudiced. Look up "stand your ground" laws. Avoid any states that have them.

7) Racism, bigotry, and sexism are all alive and well here in the USA. Unless you're White and Male, you will likely have at least a somewhat hard time making it here. Not that racism, bigotry, sexism, and prejudice don't exist in other parts of the World. But if anyone thinks they don't exit here, they're sadly mistaken.

8) You'll also be running into some very weird, freaky religions here. Think "Children of the Corn"/"Stepford Wives"/flat-out brainwashed/prosperity gospel type stuff, or even weirder.

9) And lastly, things here change slooooowly. The USA government is structured in such a way that it encourages gridlock. I truly have no faith that things will change for the better in the next decade or two (or 4).

10) I just realized. I didn't even add, the thing that finally drove us over the edge is Trump. The man's a lunatic, and his supporters are worse. Even with all of the above, it's only when reality truly slaps you in the face that you realize that you've been sunk into a stupor for the past several decades, and you either need to act to get out of it or accept the status quo. For us, the path was of action, and that's why we're now proudly Canadian PRs.

... ok, got that out of my system.

Ok. The USA is not really that horrible a place to live. There are much worse places to live in. And once you make it in, it's not that bad a place. But there are better choices out there. And be aware that unless you make ungodly amounts of money in your lifetime, you will likely have a very hard time later in life trying to pay for your children's education, trying to retire, and trying to afford your elderly healthcare expenses. My wife and I joke that currently, we're part of what some folk call "White Socialism" (link to article on that below). As long as you belong, you may be ok, at least for now. The moment you fall off, heaven help you.

White Socialism explained: https://www.forbes.com/sites/chrisladd/2017/03/13/unspeakable-realities-block-universal-health-coverage-in-the-us

Summary: At least for us, that's why even though we're US citizens, we got our Canadian PR. We think the best thing we can do for our children is try to get them to Canadian Citizenship. Plus in Canada, we might actually be able to afford their college education, our own retirement, and our future medical expenses.
This is amazing post. I'm totally with you on this.

But I'd like to add that having been brought up in a developed country, you are able to look for things beyond money and career. But Indian mindset is completely different and in our society money is all that matters. It'll take another 100 years at a minimum for us to think the way you are thinking. People don't mind waiting decades to get green card. You'll find that majority of them who got green cards after a decade would have got Canadian PR at some point and wasted it without meeting residency obligation. They'd have gone overboard asking in forums for suggestions whether to move to Canada or stay in US in visa when they are about to lose the PR and will eventually settle for latter. Their logic would be simple.. If they are drawing $100k in US, they'll see if they'd get $140k cad $ in Canada. If not they'll complain of low wages and smaller job market, and convince themselves even without giving a try. Even a group that moves Canada will bite their breath to complete three or four years to get citizenship and eventually TN visa or they'll look for a job near border to commute from Canada.

There is little bit realization these days on the importance of stability, but still people are not just able to give up easily on US.
 
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mgnlky

Champion Member
Jan 22, 2016
1,558
277
Vancouver
Category........
FSW
Visa Office......
Ottawa
NOC Code......
1122
Pre-Assessed..
Yes
App. Filed.......
22-12-2016
AOR Received.
22-12-2016
Med's Done....
04-11-2016
Passport Req..
22-3-2017
LANDED..........
04-09-2017
I received the request to submit my and my dependents passports for confirmation of permanent residence. Me and my wife are Indian Citizens, hodling Indian passports. Our son was born in the United States and is a US citizen and holds a US passport. From the email instructions, I have to send my and my wife's original passports for confirmation of permanent residence. The email also says if you are a US citizen, then you don't need to send the passport, you can just send the photo copy. My question is, should I send my son's original passport along with our passports or should I send only the photo copy of my son's passport? Please help.
For US Citizens, only send the copy of the passport. American passports do not get stamped with a visa like the Indian passport will.
 

JERiv

Star Member
Jul 4, 2017
71
61
Texas
This is amazing post. I'm totally with you on this.

But I'd like to add that having been brought up in a developed country, you are able to look for things beyond money and career. But Indian mindset is completely different and in our society money is all that matters. It'll take another 100 years at a minimum for us to think the way you are thinking. People don't mind waiting decades to get green card. You'll find that majority of them who got green cards after a decade would have got Canadian PR at some point and wasted it without meeting residency obligation. They'd have gone overboard asking in forums for suggestions whether to move to Canada or stay in US in visa when they are about to lose the PR and will eventually settle for latter. Their logic would be simple.. If they are drawing $100k in US, they'll see if they'd get $140k cad $ in Canada. If not they'll complain of low wages and smaller job market, and convince themselves even without giving a try. Even a group that moves Canada will bite their breath to complete three or four years to get citizenship and eventually TN visa or they'll look for a job near border to commute from Canada.

There is little bit realization these days on the importance of stability, but still people are not just able to give up easily on US.
I can somewhat empathize. I know my family and I are in a different place, because we already have US citizenship. So even if things don't work out for us, we could easily return to the states in the future. Which is obviously not the same situation as folks who don't have US Citizenship and live in countries where opportunities to get ahead in life are very hard to come by. Even now, for us although we're officially Canadian PRs, we're still holding off on the move because we're trying to get good jobs first. It's not easy, but nothing worthwhile in life usually is (which is again, probably more perspective on why folks still aim for US citizenship, for them it is worth it regardless of cost/time).

Just this week we had to go through the experience of the Austin bomber. We live less than 5-8 miles from several places that were hit. Heck, I sent our PPR stuff from the same FedEx store that the bomber used to send two of his bombs, one of which exploded in Schertz... You have no idea how much that motivates us to get out of here.

I guess I just wanted to reply to @desmat and explain as to "why" a US citizen (what a lot of them might be working for) might want to move. I know it can be an unusual concept to non-US citizens. My perspective is also somewhat unique, as my wife and her family are all naturalized immigrants, and I'm from Puerto Rico (small Spanish-speaking island in Caribbean, we're all born US citizen because the US needed soldiers to fight in WW1). Growing up in PR, I'm not as "<3 AMERICAAA!!!" as some native born Americans might be.

I guess it boils down to your own observation, that it's a money vs stability thing. And for most out there, out of necessity and/or because of personal experience, money is still king. And I absolutely can't fault that.
 
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Reactions: DEEPCUR
Mar 21, 2018
10
8
Sooo.... adding to what @moose17 and @trumprefugee said...

1) I know Indians in particular think the USA is the Land of Opportunity. You've been sold this fallacy that just making it here you'll own a house, cars, be middle-class, make tons of money, and your kids will all become doctors and lawyers. Very, very few Americans actually ever get to achieve this. Much less immigrants that have to fight to even get some modicum of stability due to lack of permanent residency. It's a fantasy in this day and age. In the 1950s, an American (White only) straight out of high school could get a job without a college degree that would pay for his house, his stay-at-home wife, his kids' (heavily subsidized) education, his own (heavily subsidized) education if he later wanted to have it, and save up enough money for retirement. Nowadays, those very old folk think a kid graduating college with $100-200K in debt working at Starbucks, McDonalds, and Walmart because he/she can't get a job is a lazy person who just isn't working hard enough. It never crosses their mind that 2018 is NOT 1950, where the government subsidized almost everything, there was a much stronger social safety net, and White Americans didn't have to compete against anyone else because those undesirables (women or minorities) wouldn't be hired.

2) The social safety net of today in the USA is absolute garbage. About the only way you could think otherwise is if you came from a country where there is an even worse social safety net. In which case, you're comparing a rotten apple with a rotten banana. They're still both rotten and you wouldn't eat either of them unless they're your only choices and you're desperate.

3) As an immigrant in the USA, you won't even be able to really partake in the "American Dream" until you become a resident. And the USA immigration system is absolute hell. My wife has an uncle who is a PhD in Chemistry, has decades of work in the petrochemical industry, but it still took 20 years for him to get his green card. Twenty years. I've worked with a lot of Infosys and Cognizant folks (I worked in IT). If you tried to go the Green Card route and come here with an H1B visa while working it, you will likely be treated badly, worked like a slave, disliked by a lot of your peers (especially those who don't know you) because they'll think you're taking their jobs for lower pay, and you'd have to put up with it for a decade or two to even get a chance to become a permanent resident.

4) The minute something goes wrong (i.e. medical emergency, immigration snafu, job loss, you get accused of god knows what), you'll either go into a downwards spiral of debt and bankruptcy, or potentially be thrown out of the Country. Because there is no social safety net, and you're not a permanent resident. Plus you're at the mercy of the Federal Government, which routinely goes Republican and then treats immigrants (non-White ones in particular, somehow they're never worried about European immigrants) like some sort of parasite they need to expunge, even if only to keep their base of rabid ignorant bigots, who love to blame others who don't look like them, happy.

5) Depending on where you live, if your skin is dark (like mine, I'm Latino US born), you will feel the prejudice and racism. You could ignore it. But sometimes it gets weird. I've gone into restaurants and felt a hairs-in-the-back-of-your-neck-rising feeling of "you are not welcome". Interestingly enough, that was both in Connecticut and in Virginia, not here in Texas. In both cases, I was with my wife and asked her if she noticed anything weird in there, and in both cases, she said "I thought it was just me!" In some places, it's worse. I've driven though Texas, and there are Confederate Flags flying in cars, or plastered in windows in some places. For most minorities here in the USA, seeing a Confederate Flag is equivalent to a Jew seeing a Nazi flag. So although you might feel welcome in many places, you will also run into many others where you will be treated like a literal invader.

6) It's hard to explain to non-Americans just how horrifying the USA's morbid obsession with owning guns is. It's both horrifying and shocking. Unless you really love guns, until you're in a room with random folk who are openly carrying weapons, you won't really understand just how bad it can be. And anyone can get a gun here. Anyone. Heck, you can buy them at Walmart. Oh, but if you're a minority and openly carry a gun, be prepared to potentially be shot down by either police or a gun wielding "patriot" who thinks you're a shooter. Even if it's a toy gun (it's happened multiple times now). And both of them would walk free, because our justice system is heavily prejudiced. Look up "stand your ground" laws. Avoid any states that have them.

7) Racism, bigotry, and sexism are all alive and well here in the USA. Unless you're White and Male, you will likely have at least a somewhat hard time making it here. Not that racism, bigotry, sexism, and prejudice don't exist in other parts of the World. But if anyone thinks they don't exit here, they're sadly mistaken.

8) You'll also be running into some very weird, freaky religions here. Think "Children of the Corn"/"Stepford Wives"/flat-out brainwashed/prosperity gospel type stuff, or even weirder.

9) And lastly, things here change slooooowly. The USA government is structured in such a way that it encourages gridlock. I truly have no faith that things will change for the better in the next decade or two (or 4).

10) I just realized. I didn't even add, the thing that finally drove us over the edge is Trump. The man's a lunatic, and his supporters are worse. Even with all of the above, it's only when reality truly slaps you in the face that you realize that you've been sunk into a stupor for the past several decades, and you either need to act to get out of it or accept the status quo. For us, the path was of action, and that's why we're now proudly Canadian PRs.

... ok, got that out of my system.

Ok. The USA is not really that horrible a place to live. There are much worse places to live in. And once you make it in, it's not that bad a place. But there are better choices out there. And be aware that unless you make ungodly amounts of money in your lifetime, you will likely have a very hard time later in life trying to pay for your children's education, trying to retire, and trying to afford your elderly healthcare expenses. My wife and I joke that currently, we're part of what some folk call "White Socialism" (link to article on that below). As long as you belong, you may be ok, at least for now. The moment you fall off, heaven help you.

White Socialism explained: https://www.forbes.com/sites/chrisladd/2017/03/13/unspeakable-realities-block-universal-health-coverage-in-the-us

Summary: At least for us, that's why even though we're US citizens, we got our Canadian PR. We think the best thing we can do for our children is try to get them to Canadian Citizenship. Plus in Canada, we might actually be able to afford their college education, our own retirement, and our future medical expenses.
adding to your insights...... (Re-posting my comment from another thread, seems appropriate here)........
US immigration system has been broken for a very long time now; it should have been on Point-based/Merit-based, a long time ago. However, the system is still primarily based upon volume, which results in 10-20 years waiting period for highly-populated countries like India. So rather than fixing the issue, they are actually going backwards.

People like me and countless other immigrants from all over the world, who came to this country, studied their ass off (for entrance exams like GMAT, GRE, IELTS and likes), paid 100% higher out-of-state tuition fees (relative to their American counterparts), interviewed countless companies, and finally scored genuine jobs (after filing gazillion documents), should have been streamlined into a Merit based system long ago, and should have been separated out from people coming from staffing companies like TCS (though no offense to them; they should be merited to their own competencies). But instead, all US political parties overlooked Immigration for a long time now. And this is primarily coming from resistance by regular American people. US at this point has a very defensive stance towards Immigration, and it has nothing to do with TRUMP, as such. After all, Trump is just a representation (more/less) of the country's culture, arguably speaking. They are at cross-roads at this point, where 6/10 children born are of a color, and their 'norms' are in clash with each other. With so much going on internally, its very vivid that Immigration is not on their agenda. And I dare say, there will be a price to pay.

Meanwhile, Canada sensed the opportunity: Express Entry, its not a shock/fluke that its a very attractive option for H1-Bs. It has been a very smartly/strategically designed program by Canadian government to implement a Brian Drain.
 
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DEEPCUR

Champion Member
Apr 12, 2016
2,428
642
I can somewhat empathize. I know my family and I are in a different place, because we already have US citizenship. So even if things don't work out for us, we could easily return to the states in the future. Which is obviously not the same situation as folks who don't have US Citizenship and live in countries where opportunities to get ahead in life are very hard to come by. Even now, for us although we're officially Canadian PRs, we're still holding off on the move because we're trying to get good jobs first. It's not easy, but nothing worthwhile in life usually is (which is again, probably more perspective on why folks still aim for US citizenship, for them it is worth it regardless of cost/time).

Just this week we had to go through the experience of the Austin bomber. We live less than 5-8 miles from several places that were hit. Heck, I sent our PPR stuff from the same FedEx store that the bomber used to send two of his bombs, one of which exploded in Schertz... You have no idea how much that motivates us to get out of here.

I guess I just wanted to reply to @desmat and explain as to "why" a US citizen (what a lot of them might be working for) might want to move. I know it can be an unusual concept to non-US citizens. My perspective is also somewhat unique, as my wife and her family are all naturalized immigrants, and I'm from Puerto Rico (small Spanish-speaking island in Caribbean, we're all born US citizen because the US needed soldiers to fight in WW1). Growing up in PR, I'm not as "<3 AMERICAAA!!!" as some native born Americans might be.

I guess it boils down to your own observation, that it's a money vs stability thing. And for most out there, out of necessity and/or because of personal experience, money is still king. And I absolutely can't fault that.
On a different note, I got something quantitative to substantiate what you qualitatively described..it clearly shows how US is deteriorating.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Where-to-be-born_Index

From Rank 1 in 1988, it has gone down to 16th spot in 2013. I guess it might go down even further with time with all that's happening in healthcare, guns, immigration etc.

Canada has gone down from 5th to 9th too, but it more seems like Singapore and Australia grew aggresively faster than Canada, than Canada itself going down.
 
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Mrs. Kow

Full Member
Jan 5, 2018
37
20
Virginia, USA
Category........
FSW
Visa Office......
Ottawa
App. Filed.......
27/12/2017
AOR Received.
28/12//2017
Med's Done....
05/03/2018
Passport Req..
05-09-2018
LANDED..........
14-10-2018
Sooo.... adding to what @moose17 and @trumprefugee said...

1) I know Indians in particular think the USA is the Land of Opportunity. You've been sold this fallacy that just making it here you'll own a house, cars, be middle-class, make tons of money, and your kids will all become doctors and lawyers. Very, very few Americans actually ever get to achieve this. Much less immigrants that have to fight to even get some modicum of stability due to lack of permanent residency. It's a fantasy in this day and age. In the 1950s, an American (White only) straight out of high school could get a job without a college degree that would pay for his house, his stay-at-home wife, his kids' (heavily subsidized) education, his own (heavily subsidized) education if he later wanted to have it, and save up enough money for retirement. Nowadays, those very old folk think a kid graduating college with $100-200K in debt working at Starbucks, McDonalds, and Walmart because he/she can't get a job is a lazy person who just isn't working hard enough. It never crosses their mind that 2018 is NOT 1950, where the government subsidized almost everything, there was a much stronger social safety net, and White Americans didn't have to compete against anyone else because those undesirables (women or minorities) wouldn't be hired.

2) The social safety net of today in the USA is absolute garbage. About the only way you could think otherwise is if you came from a country where there is an even worse social safety net. In which case, you're comparing a rotten apple with a rotten banana. They're still both rotten and you wouldn't eat either of them unless they're your only choices and you're desperate.

3) As an immigrant in the USA, you won't even be able to really partake in the "American Dream" until you become a resident. And the USA immigration system is absolute hell. My wife has an uncle who is a PhD in Chemistry, has decades of work in the petrochemical industry, but it still took 20 years for him to get his green card. Twenty years. I've worked with a lot of Infosys and Cognizant folks (I worked in IT). If you tried to go the Green Card route and come here with an H1B visa while working it, you will likely be treated badly, worked like a slave, disliked by a lot of your peers (especially those who don't know you) because they'll think you're taking their jobs for lower pay, and you'd have to put up with it for a decade or two to even get a chance to become a permanent resident.

4) The minute something goes wrong (i.e. medical emergency, immigration snafu, job loss, you get accused of god knows what), you'll either go into a downwards spiral of debt and bankruptcy, or potentially be thrown out of the Country. Because there is no social safety net, and you're not a permanent resident. Plus you're at the mercy of the Federal Government, which routinely goes Republican and then treats immigrants (non-White ones in particular, somehow they're never worried about European immigrants) like some sort of parasite they need to expunge, even if only to keep their base of rabid ignorant bigots, who love to blame others who don't look like them, happy.

5) Depending on where you live, if your skin is dark (like mine, I'm Latino US born), you will feel the prejudice and racism. You could ignore it. But sometimes it gets weird. I've gone into restaurants and felt a hairs-in-the-back-of-your-neck-rising feeling of "you are not welcome". Interestingly enough, that was both in Connecticut and in Virginia, not here in Texas. In both cases, I was with my wife and asked her if she noticed anything weird in there, and in both cases, she said "I thought it was just me!" In some places, it's worse. I've driven though Texas, and there are Confederate Flags flying in cars, or plastered in windows in some places. For most minorities here in the USA, seeing a Confederate Flag is equivalent to a Jew seeing a Nazi flag. So although you might feel welcome in many places, you will also run into many others where you will be treated like a literal invader.

6) It's hard to explain to non-Americans just how horrifying the USA's morbid obsession with owning guns is. It's both horrifying and shocking. Unless you really love guns, until you're in a room with random folk who are openly carrying weapons, you won't really understand just how bad it can be. And anyone can get a gun here. Anyone. Heck, you can buy them at Walmart. Oh, but if you're a minority and openly carry a gun, be prepared to potentially be shot down by either police or a gun wielding "patriot" who thinks you're a shooter. Even if it's a toy gun (it's happened multiple times now). And both of them would walk free, because our justice system is heavily prejudiced. Look up "stand your ground" laws. Avoid any states that have them.

7) Racism, bigotry, and sexism are all alive and well here in the USA. Unless you're White and Male, you will likely have at least a somewhat hard time making it here. Not that racism, bigotry, sexism, and prejudice don't exist in other parts of the World. But if anyone thinks they don't exit here, they're sadly mistaken.

8) You'll also be running into some very weird, freaky religions here. Think "Children of the Corn"/"Stepford Wives"/flat-out brainwashed/prosperity gospel type stuff, or even weirder.

9) And lastly, things here change slooooowly. The USA government is structured in such a way that it encourages gridlock. I truly have no faith that things will change for the better in the next decade or two (or 4).

10) I just realized. I didn't even add, the thing that finally drove us over the edge is Trump. The man's a lunatic, and his supporters are worse. Even with all of the above, it's only when reality truly slaps you in the face that you realize that you've been sunk into a stupor for the past several decades, and you either need to act to get out of it or accept the status quo. For us, the path was of action, and that's why we're now proudly Canadian PRs.

... ok, got that out of my system.

Ok. The USA is not really that horrible a place to live. There are much worse places to live in. And once you make it in, it's not that bad a place. But there are better choices out there. And be aware that unless you make ungodly amounts of money in your lifetime, you will likely have a very hard time later in life trying to pay for your children's education, trying to retire, and trying to afford your elderly healthcare expenses. My wife and I joke that currently, we're part of what some folk call "White Socialism" (link to article on that below). As long as you belong, you may be ok, at least for now. The moment you fall off, heaven help you.

White Socialism explained: https://www.forbes.com/sites/chrisladd/2017/03/13/unspeakable-realities-block-universal-health-coverage-in-the-us

Summary: At least for us, that's why even though we're US citizens, we got our Canadian PR. We think the best thing we can do for our children is try to get them to Canadian Citizenship. Plus in Canada, we might actually be able to afford their college education, our own retirement, and our future medical expenses.
In addition to these reasons, I believe that the policies of our current government are going to negatively affect the lives of Americans, much more so than they already have. I hope I'm wrong, but I can't afford to wait and see. With every birthday I'll lose a few more CRS points. If my family is going to move to Canada, now is the time to go. I'm hoping for PPR any day now.
 

Adolphite

Star Member
Mar 15, 2018
108
5
Sooo.... adding to what @moose17 and @trumprefugee said...

1) I know Indians in particular think the USA is the Land of Opportunity. You've been sold this fallacy that just making it here you'll own a house, cars, be middle-class, make tons of money, and your kids will all become doctors and lawyers. Very, very few Americans actually ever get to achieve this. Much less immigrants that have to fight to even get some modicum of stability due to lack of permanent residency. It's a fantasy in this day and age. In the 1950s, an American (White only) straight out of high school could get a job without a college degree that would pay for his house, his stay-at-home wife, his kids' (heavily subsidized) education, his own (heavily subsidized) education if he later wanted to have it, and save up enough money for retirement. Nowadays, those very old folk think a kid graduating college with $100-200K in debt working at Starbucks, McDonalds, and Walmart because he/she can't get a job is a lazy person who just isn't working hard enough. It never crosses their mind that 2018 is NOT 1950, where the government subsidized almost everything, there was a much stronger social safety net, and White Americans didn't have to compete against anyone else because those undesirables (women or minorities) wouldn't be hired.

2) The social safety net of today in the USA is absolute garbage. About the only way you could think otherwise is if you came from a country where there is an even worse social safety net. In which case, you're comparing a rotten apple with a rotten banana. They're still both rotten and you wouldn't eat either of them unless they're your only choices and you're desperate.

3) As an immigrant in the USA, you won't even be able to really partake in the "American Dream" until you become a resident. And the USA immigration system is absolute hell. My wife has an uncle who is a PhD in Chemistry, has decades of work in the petrochemical industry, but it still took 20 years for him to get his green card. Twenty years. I've worked with a lot of Infosys and Cognizant folks (I worked in IT). If you tried to go the Green Card route and come here with an H1B visa while working it, you will likely be treated badly, worked like a slave, disliked by a lot of your peers (especially those who don't know you) because they'll think you're taking their jobs for lower pay, and you'd have to put up with it for a decade or two to even get a chance to become a permanent resident.

4) The minute something goes wrong (i.e. medical emergency, immigration snafu, job loss, you get accused of god knows what), you'll either go into a downwards spiral of debt and bankruptcy, or potentially be thrown out of the Country. Because there is no social safety net, and you're not a permanent resident. Plus you're at the mercy of the Federal Government, which routinely goes Republican and then treats immigrants (non-White ones in particular, somehow they're never worried about European immigrants) like some sort of parasite they need to expunge, even if only to keep their base of rabid ignorant bigots, who love to blame others who don't look like them, happy.

5) Depending on where you live, if your skin is dark (like mine, I'm Latino US born), you will feel the prejudice and racism. You could ignore it. But sometimes it gets weird. I've gone into restaurants and felt a hairs-in-the-back-of-your-neck-rising feeling of "you are not welcome". Interestingly enough, that was both in Connecticut and in Virginia, not here in Texas. In both cases, I was with my wife and asked her if she noticed anything weird in there, and in both cases, she said "I thought it was just me!" In some places, it's worse. I've driven though Texas, and there are Confederate Flags flying in cars, or plastered in windows in some places. For most minorities here in the USA, seeing a Confederate Flag is equivalent to a Jew seeing a Nazi flag. So although you might feel welcome in many places, you will also run into many others where you will be treated like a literal invader.

6) It's hard to explain to non-Americans just how horrifying the USA's morbid obsession with owning guns is. It's both horrifying and shocking. Unless you really love guns, until you're in a room with random folk who are openly carrying weapons, you won't really understand just how bad it can be. And anyone can get a gun here. Anyone. Heck, you can buy them at Walmart. Oh, but if you're a minority and openly carry a gun, be prepared to potentially be shot down by either police or a gun wielding "patriot" who thinks you're a shooter. Even if it's a toy gun (it's happened multiple times now). And both of them would walk free, because our justice system is heavily prejudiced. Look up "stand your ground" laws. Avoid any states that have them.

7) Racism, bigotry, and sexism are all alive and well here in the USA. Unless you're White and Male, you will likely have at least a somewhat hard time making it here. Not that racism, bigotry, sexism, and prejudice don't exist in other parts of the World. But if anyone thinks they don't exit here, they're sadly mistaken.

8) You'll also be running into some very weird, freaky religions here. Think "Children of the Corn"/"Stepford Wives"/flat-out brainwashed/prosperity gospel type stuff, or even weirder.

9) And lastly, things here change slooooowly. The USA government is structured in such a way that it encourages gridlock. I truly have no faith that things will change for the better in the next decade or two (or 4).

10) I just realized. I didn't even add, the thing that finally drove us over the edge is Trump. The man's a lunatic, and his supporters are worse. Even with all of the above, it's only when reality truly slaps you in the face that you realize that you've been sunk into a stupor for the past several decades, and you either need to act to get out of it or accept the status quo. For us, the path was of action, and that's why we're now proudly Canadian PRs.

... ok, got that out of my system.

Ok. The USA is not really that horrible a place to live. There are much worse places to live in. And once you make it in, it's not that bad a place. But there are better choices out there. And be aware that unless you make ungodly amounts of money in your lifetime, you will likely have a very hard time later in life trying to pay for your children's education, trying to retire, and trying to afford your elderly healthcare expenses. My wife and I joke that currently, we're part of what some folk call "White Socialism" (link to article on that below). As long as you belong, you may be ok, at least for now. The moment you fall off, heaven help you.

White Socialism explained: https://www.forbes.com/sites/chrisladd/2017/03/13/unspeakable-realities-block-universal-health-coverage-in-the-us

Summary: At least for us, that's why even though we're US citizens, we got our Canadian PR. We think the best thing we can do for our children is try to get them to Canadian Citizenship. Plus in Canada, we might actually be able to afford their college education, our own retirement, and our future medical expenses.
Exactly the way I see the US. Feels like I wrote yoyr post.
 

sam9589

Full Member
Aug 7, 2017
33
14
AOR Received.
08/08/2017
Med's Done....
31/08/2017
Passport Req..
17/10/2017
Hello everyone,
I am planning to move to Toronto in the month of July, 2018. My questions are
1. How did you guys move your stuff (furniture etc.) from USA to CANADA?
2. U-Haul or any other services available for moving?
3. If I import my car, how much would be the registration fees in Toronto?
Any help/suggestions would be appreciated.
Thanks.
 

shalij12

Star Member
Mar 26, 2018
106
21
Hi All,

I have a CRS of 473 submitted my profile on March 16th, I dint receive any information if my application was picked or not on March 26th Draw. the cut off is 446 so My assumption is I should have. how long does it take for me to know if my application was picked?

Regards
Shalini
 

JERiv

Star Member
Jul 4, 2017
71
61
Texas
Hi All,

I have a CRS of 473 submitted my profile on March 16th, I dint receive any information if my application was picked or not on March 26th Draw. the cut off is 446 so My assumption is I should have. how long does it take for me to know if my application was picked?

Regards
Shalini
It takes a bit. But I would think you got though. Have you checked your online application status? If I remember correctly, our online application status updated hours before we got the e-mail.