URGENT! Residency Obligation Hearing - Removed as a Minor

[kmbm91]

Good day,

I need your help to understand if I have a case here, to know the chances and your opinion on the case itself.

My family and I came to Canada in 1992 under a Refugee Program and became Permanent Residents. However, we left the country within a year and at the time, I was 2 years old. In 2011, when I turned 20, I decided to apply to get my PR renewed under Humanitarian and Compassionate Grounds, given that I was removed as a minor and hence, not meeting my residency obligations without my consent. My application was denied and I decided to proceed with an Appeal to the decision. This July I learnt that my hearing was scheduled for August by telephone (I requested to be present but It was also denied) and I would like to know? I won't have any legal representation (can't afford it) But my older Brother, who is a Canadian Citizen. (He got to move back with a job offer and became a citizen)

- Is my case a strong case?
- What are the odds?
- What kind of questions should I expect at the hearing?
- When will I know the outcome?
- If favorable, how much time will I have to move back to Canada?

Thank you! I need a response as soon as possible!!

Regards

 

[dpenabill]

Good day,

I need your help to understand if I have a case here, to know the chances and your opinion on the case itself.

My family and I came to Canada in 1992 under a Refugee Program and became Permanent Residents. However, we left the country within a year and at the time, I was 2 years old. In 2011, when I turned 20, I decided to apply to get my PR renewed under Humanitarian and Compassionate Grounds, given that I was removed as a minor and hence, not meeting my residency obligations without my consent. My application was denied and I decided to proceed with an Appeal to the decision. This July I learnt that my hearing was scheduled for August by telephone (I requested to be present but It was also denied) and I would like to know? I won't have any legal representation (can't afford it) But my older Brother, who is a Canadian Citizen. (He got to move back with a job offer and became a citizen)

- Is my case a strong case?
- What are the odds?
- What kind of questions should I expect at the hearing?
- When will I know the outcome?
- If favorable, how much time will I have to move back to Canada?

Thank you! I need a response as soon as possible!!

Regards

Obviously you do not have a strong case, given that a CIC official has already decided you did not prove your case.

Odds cannot be ascertained because these things are very fact specific, very dependent on the facts and circumstances in the individual case. For example, what additional evidence have you submitted in the appeal that could change the outcome?

The reasons why your application for a PR Travel Document (assuming that is the application you made) was denied are important . . . it may have been the termination of refugee or protected person status that resulted in the denial, and if so it seems unlikely that at this stage (nearly two decades later) you could overcome that . . . but I say this without knowing what the grounds were for denying your application. Those matter.

With a brother in Canada, perhaps there is time for your brother to obtain the assistance of a Canadian lawyer on your behalf.

There is a chance you will learn the outcome soon after, if not attendant, the telephonic hearing. Or it could be awhile.

If there is a favourable decision, I do not know how long you would have to move to Canada . . . I would guess at least six months, but I am not particularly confident about this guess.

Even strong H & C cases can be tricky. A lawyer's help should have been obtained before now. Maybe there is still time to obtain assistance from a lawyer.

 

[neutral]

He says that he can't afford a lawyer.

 

[dpenabill]

Without the assistance of a lawyer, the odds in such a case go down considerably, and they are not good to begin with (although, as noted, it is impossible to assess the odds due to the very fact specific nature of such cases).

If the brother in Canada can in any way arrange for legal representation (or at least obtain some professional advice), that might (only might) help . . . but . . .

But the OP came to Canada and obtained PR status through a refugee program. Canada has gotten quite strict in terminating refugee status for those who return home or even those who could return to their home country (we do not know where they went when they left Canada, one of those important facts), and since late 2012 that automatically results in the loss of PR status (no matter how long the individual has been a PR . . . questions for further review have been certified, such as to whether H&C grounds can be raised in such cases). So even if the OP has submitted evidence sufficient to overrule the denial of a PR Travel Document relative to H&C reasons warranting a waiver of compliance with the PR Residency Obligation, which is tricky and complicated enough on its own, this is a particularly complicated situation which cries for the assistance of legal counsel, a lawyer experienced in immigration and refugee law . . . that's the best course of action for the OP to pursue at this stage.

That is, while it is said that the OP cannot afford a lawyer, the OP cannot afford to proceed without a lawyer either.

 

[Msafiri]

1. Its unusual to get turned down for a PRTD on H&C grounds based on removal from Canada as a minor especially at age 2 when you apply as soon as you reach the age of majority. Yours is one of the youngest removals I've seen in a long time. I think you have a very good chance but it will also depend on how you present yourself before the IAD. Ideally an in person appearance is best so they can better gauge your credibility based on your testimony. It would be best to have legal representation - is there anyway your brother can get a lawyer for you? The costs will be offset by a successful appeal.

2. As a starting point the lawyer would obtain the GCMS notes for your PRTD application - its very likely the visa officer undertook a mechanistic approach to the application. My calculated guess is you are in a country where the visa post handles multiple countries and typically the visa posts here just bounce everything not straightforward due to time constraints of reviewing H&C considerations (or review it minimally) and hope the applicant doesn't appeal or gets timed out. Did you explain in detail why you were outside Canada and your desire to return including evidence of proposed action when you return typically going to school? Perhaps your PRTD application was lacking in detail? Why did you apply at 20 though and not say at 18 or 19? CIC may try the 'not at the earliest' opportunity angle. 20 is still ok though...as you get into your early to mid 20s its a more difficult sell.

3. The refugee class is not in itself an issue. You were landed as a refugee and left Canada as a PR and remain one until the appeal is disposed off (if CIC win) before the relevant court. If you were actually not a PR as because you were issued a removal order then you wouldn't have the right of appeal. While dpenabill points out recent tightening policy on re-availment of protection from your home country certification is before the courts to rule conclusively on this...until then grounds for return will continue to be considered..again as a minor the odds in my opinion in your favour.

4. Why did you leave (easy one)? Why do you want to come back? What will you do if you come back? What is the impact of not keeping your PR? What support do you have in Canada? What support do you have back home? Where are your family? You need to demonstrate why you want to return to Canada and what positive contribution this will be in your life and how in turn this makes you a good citizen. Even if you can't get a lawyer your brother must attend the appeal or be patched in by phone. His situation will be examined. If he has a job and say a nice home environment for you to stay its a plus. If he has a string of criminal offences then well....!!

5. You must make sure you have enough calling cards for the call. Multiple appeals fail because the applicant runs out of time or the phone lines are not working. Many in Canada take it for granted that the lines are clear but if you are in say a developing country with poor telecoms infrastructure then your appeal lies at the hands of a crackling line!! I suggest you and your brother do a trial run of calls between each other to make sure there will be no issues on the day. Make note of the time difference on the day too.

6. The CIC lawyer may concede on the day at which point the IAD will accept and give you their verbal decision. This may be written up on the same day. The decision may also be in writing within say a month. Either party to the appeal can appeal a loss to the Federal Court.

7. If no appeal from CIC and you win then IAD direct PRTD issuance within a specified timeline. Visa post will issue PRTD with their own validity but typically max 6 months. Some visa posts issue them valid for a month.

Good luck!!

 

[kmbm91]

1. Its unusual to get turned down for a PRTD on H&C grounds based on removal from Canada as a minor especially at age 2 when you apply as soon as you reach the age of majority. Yours is one of the youngest removals I've seen in a long time. I think you have a very good chance but it will also depend on how you present yourself before the IAD. Ideally an in person appearance is best so they can better gauge your credibility based on your testimony. It would be best to have legal representation - is there anyway your brother can get a lawyer for you? The costs will be offset by a successful appeal.

2. As a starting point the lawyer would obtain the GCMS notes for your PRTD application - its very likely the visa officer undertook a mechanistic approach to the application. My calculated guess is you are in a country where the visa post handles multiple countries and typically the visa posts here just bounce everything not straightforward due to time constraints of reviewing H&C considerations (or review it minimally) and hope the applicant doesn't appeal or gets timed out. Did you explain in detail why you were outside Canada and your desire to return including evidence of proposed action when you return typically going to school? Perhaps your PRTD application was lacking in detail? Why did you apply at 20 though and not say at 18 or 19? CIC may try the 'not at the earliest' opportunity angle. 20 is still ok though...as you get into your early to mid 20s its a more difficult sell.

3. The refugee class is not in itself an issue. You were landed as a refugee and left Canada as a PR and remain one until the appeal is disposed off (if CIC win) before the relevant court. If you were actually not a PR as because you were issued a removal order then you wouldn't have the right of appeal. While dpenabill points out recent tightening policy on re-availment of protection from your home country certification is before the courts to rule conclusively on this...until then grounds for return will continue to be considered..again as a minor the odds in my opinion in your favour.

4. Why did you leave (easy one)? Why do you want to come back? What will you do if you come back? What is the impact of not keeping your PR? What support do you have in Canada? What support do you have back home? Where are your family? You need to demonstrate why you want to return to Canada and what positive contribution this will be in your life and how in turn this makes you a good citizen. Even if you can't get a lawyer your brother must attend the appeal or be patched in by phone. His situation will be examined. If he has a job and say a nice home environment for you to stay its a plus. If he has a string of criminal offences then well....!!

5. You must make sure you have enough calling cards for the call. Multiple appeals fail because the applicant runs out of time or the phone lines are not working. Many in Canada take it for granted that the lines are clear but if you are in say a developing country with poor telecoms infrastructure then your appeal lies at the hands of a crackling line!! I suggest you and your brother do a trial run of calls between each other to make sure there will be no issues on the day. Make note of the time difference on the day too.

6. The CIC lawyer may concede on the day at which point the IAD will accept and give you their verbal decision. This may be written up on the same day. The decision may also be in writing within say a month. Either party to the appeal can appeal a loss to the Federal Court.

7. If no appeal from CIC and you win then IAD direct PRTD issuance within a specified timeline. Visa post will issue PRTD with their own validity but typically max 6 months. Some visa posts issue them valid for a month.

Good luck!!

Thanks for all of your responses.

I will give you some context:

I have several relatives who came to Canada as refugees in the 90s and currently hold a citizenship. My family did as well but left (my parents decided to end their marriage and felt the necessity to come back to El Salvador, where I currently live, to deal with such personal matter)
My brother got offered a job in Canada and got to renew his PR status (I guess the job offer helped it at the time) won the case and moved back with his family. Now they are all citizens. He's even working with the Canadian government. However, we have consider legal assessment for my special case and there's no way we can afford it. We didn't have a removal order. My parents took such decision by themselves. I still have my PR (though old) document which was handed to us when landed.
I apply at 20 (2011) because it was the earliest we could, considering I would be living at first with him and he was still getting on his feet in 2008. Now, he is fully able to support me. My intentions (and such was stated in the evidence) is to become a productive individual in Canada.

Thanks again for your responses. Each one of them gives me a better perspective of what to expect at the hearing and hopefully, be prepared for it.

 

[neutral]

How much have you estimated the cost for a lawyer advice?