URGENT Query - Don't want to Import Car

[chappan]

Dear Forum Members,

I live in Michigan, US and I'll be completing my landing formalities through Windsor, ON on 29th August. I do own a car but I don't want to export/import it because it's not worth it due to the fact that it's an old car and will require modification to meet Canadian standards and for me to be able to drive it in Canada. However, I would still like to travel in my car just to finish my landing formality and come back to US. I have read mix feedback though about travelling in own car without importing it.

I would like to know whether I can travel in my own car and come back to US without exporting/importing. If yes, can I drive further into Canada to spend a couple of days with US number plate or will I have to return immediately from border? If it is required to export/import but I didn't do it before landing, will it affect my landing procedure? Can Immigration Officer deny my entry?

Also, if I am travelling in my own car, do I have to put it in "Goods Accompanying" list regardless of whether I will export/import it or not? I have the original title, insurance copy and original license plate registration document.

Second scenario, if I do decide to put my car in "Goods to follow list", will I still have to export/import the car prior to landing or can I do it after completing my landing procedure? Could "doing it after" put me in trouble from IO's decision making perspective?

 

[chappan]

Anyone please?

 

[explorer101]

You can do your landing formalities by travelling in your own car, no questions will be asked. You can tell the immigration officer on being asked about the car that you would be making short visit to Canada and would return back after few days and then will come back (without the car).
There is no problem in driving a car bearing US number plate in Canada or vice versa. You dont have to write the particulars of car in the accompanying good/ goods to follow if you dont want to bring it to Canada

 

[chappan]

Dear "explorer101",

Thank you very much for your response, greatly appreciate it!

Would you mind answering my second question as well?

"Second scenario, if I do decide to put my car in "Goods to follow list", will I still have to export/import the car prior to landing or can I do it after completing my landing procedure? Could "doing it after" put me in trouble from IO's decision making perspective?"

I just wanted to know if I decide to export/import my car later after coming back to US and before finally moving to Canada for good, would it still be ok to complete my landing formalities in my own car? I understand in that case I'll have to put in my in the "Goods to follow" list. OR would you recommend that I travel in a rented car instead?

Regards,

 

[OhCanadiana]

Dear "explorer101",

Thank you very much for your response, greatly appreciate it!

Would you mind answering my second question as well?

"Second scenario, if I do decide to put my car in "Goods to follow list", will I still have to export/import the car prior to landing or can I do it after completing my landing procedure? Could "doing it after" put me in trouble from IO's decision making perspective?"

I just wanted to know if I decide to export/import my car later after coming back to US and before finally moving to Canada for good, would it still be ok to complete my landing formalities in my own car? I understand in that case I'll have to put in my in the "Goods to follow" list. OR would you recommend that I travel in a rented car instead?

Regards,

Precisely because of this you SHOULD but your car on your B4 even if you may not end up importing it so you have the option if you choose to do so.

The determining factor for whether you can use your car in Canada for a few days without importing it is whether you will be landing but essentially visiting Canada and still living in the US or whether you intend to 'live in' Canada immediately. If you are a Canadian resident as in living in Canada (regardless of PR status) then you need to import it because it is illegal for a Canadian resident to drive a foreign plated car unless it is directly from the border to your destination and back with no detours (or unless it's a commercially rented vehicle and you meet specific requirements).

My post below highlights the relevant rules:

Well, this is your lucky day because I think I can clear it up for you and save you some cash for a bit

1. Your husband can drive your car or your parents' car or his own car in Ontario. IIRC, he is visiting you, not on a work permit or something else that makes him a resident of Ontario. Therefore, get him an International Driving Permit and you're done. You should be able to do it via mail with AAA (instructions here) ($15 plus shipping fees).

"If you are a visitor to Ontario and want to drive while you are here, you must be at least 16 years old and have a valid driver's licence from your own province, state or country. If you are from another country and visiting Ontario for more than three months, you need an International Driver's Permit from your own country."
http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/dandv/driver/handbook/section1.1.0.shtml

2. A Canadian resident should NOT drive a foreign-plated car (unless they rented a car from a commercial agency in the US, have permission from the rental agency, and rent it for max 30 days -> this exception is relatively new). So, if you are a resident of Ontario and not just visiting Ontario you shouldn't drive his car unless it's an emergency or you guys are taking goods in to Canada in his car in the most direct path from the border to your house. Ditto for your parents.

[the sources are long so I'm putting them at the end of the post for clarity]

3. Once he gets his PR card, when he lands he should simultaneously import his car (on his B4). For this, you will need permission from the title-holder to export the car from the US. That way he won't be a Canadian resident driving a non-Canadian car.

4. He's going to need a Canadian driver's license (DL) to register the car, so you may want to get the DL shortly before landing so that you save that step. Depending on what US state his US DL is issued by, he may need a driving record.

Ta-da. Questions?



* * *

Sources for components of #2:

Tourists can temporarily import cars, per D19-12-1

"RIV Program Exemptions
49. Vehicles are exempt from complying with the CMVSS
at the point of entry into Canada if they are imported under
one of the following conditions:
(a) the vehicles are 15 years old or older, or are buses
manufactured before January 1, 1971; the importer
must be able to demonstrate the age of the vehicle;
(b) the vehicles are entering temporarily with:
(1) visitors, for a period not exceeding 12 months;
temporary residents such as students studying at an
institution of learning, for the duration of their
studies in Canada; or individuals with valid work
permits/authorizations for employment for a period
not exceeding 36 months;"

D2-4-1's covers residents of Canada's use of non-Canadian plated cars:

"GUIDELINES AND
GENERAL INFORMATION

Residents of Canada
1. Residents of Canada may operate conveyances on
which duties have not been paid in Canada only in
accordance with the terms and conditions of tariff item
No. 9802.00.00 and the regulations made pursuant thereto.
Purpose of Importation
2. Conveyances imported temporarily under these
Regulations are admissible for personal transportation only
from the point of arrival to a specified destination in Canada
and return within 30 days, when the purpose of importation
is to transport personally owned goods into or out of
Canada.
3. Similarly, customs inspectors may permit importation
in instances where a resident is required, due to unforeseen
circumstances or emergency reasons, to utilize a
conveyance on which duties have not been paid for personal
transportation to reach a specified destination in Canada and
return.
4. Under no circumstances are conveyances admissible
under these Regulations for touring purposes or for other
leisure activities in Canada, nor is any local use permitted
(e.g., point to point movement in Canada).
5. Customs inspectors will grant free importation of a
conveyance under these Regulations only when satisfied
that the applicable conditions have been met."

...unless it's a rental and certain conditions are met

"

Exception — temporary importation

(1.1) Sections 5 and 6 do not apply to a resident of Canada who imports a vehicle that is licensed in the United States if the vehicle is rented in the United States from a vehicle rental business and is being imported into Canada for non-commercial purposes.

Importer to remove vehicle from Canada

(1.2) A resident of Canada who imports a vehicle under subsection (1.1) shall remove the vehicle from Canada within a period of 30 days, or any other prescribed period, beginning on the day on which the vehicle is imported.

Rental business to remove vehicle from Canada

(1.3) If, within the period referred to in subsection (1.2), the resident of Canada delivers the vehicle to a vehicle rental business in Canada with the consent of the business, then the vehicle rental business shall remove the vehicle from Canada before the end of that period."
http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/M-10.01/page-3.html

and

" Canadian residents may, as of June 1, 2012, bring U.S. rental vehicles into Canada for non-commercial use for 30 days or less. This will not affect the safety of Canadian road users, because Canadian and American vehicle standards are similar, and the vehicles will be in Canada for short periods of time.

While these changes to the Motor Vehicle Safety Act (MVSA) will allow one-way and two way trips, residents of Canada may only deliver a vehicle to a vehicle rental business for a one-way trip, with the consent of the business. 

Visitors to Canada may continue to bring rental vehicles from the United States into Canada. "
http://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/roadsafety/safevehicles-rental-usa-1302.htm

 

[OhCanadiana]

BTW, this post I wrote may help you plan out the process if you do decide to import the car:

I didn't find a website with all the info and had to rely on piecemeal info and calling the border posts, RIV, and Ministry of Transportation in Canada to make sure I understood the process. It's not hard, you just need to make sure you do the parts in order and have the right docs. For the best overview, take a look at riv.com, but ignore all the info they have on paying duties (as long as your car is on your B4 you won't need to pay GST/HST).

To move the car, there's several steps:
1) Confirm the car is eligible
Check the riv.ca website to confirm that your car is eligible for import and to see what modifications you may need to make (e.g., daytime running lights) to pass inspection once you are in Canada. You can make the modifications either in the US or upon arrival in Canada (i.e., you don't have to do them before crossing the border but do need them to pass inspection in Canada)

2) Prep for the move
- Contact the Ministry of Transportation for your province to understand what you'll need to register your car (e.g., driver's license, insurance, import documentation, etc) and get whatever you need lined up
- I don't know the BC specifics, but Ontario requires an Ontario driver's license to be able to register the car, so make sure you have everything you need with you to get it (e.g., for some states you may need a driver history)
- Get the recall clearance letter (for Honda, my understanding is that you can register on their owner's website and print it directly or get it from a dealer on their letterhead). Send the letter showing no outstanding recalls to the RIV (document is valid for 30 day) to support @ support.riv.ca so they pre-process it. Call them to confirm all's set before you leave the US so you can get anything else necessary before you leave.
- Confirm your US insurance will cover you in Canada and get a letter of experience to help you get Canadian insurance
- Lay foundation to get insurance in Canada (you'll need it to register your car)
- If you don't own the car (e.g., you have a lease or loan), get authorization to export the car from the lienholder
- Make sure you have your car title easily available

4) Export car from the US
You can only export the car at certain border posts in the US and at certain times. So, figure out where you are crossing and then understand their requirements to get the info to them ahead of time - usually they are looking to get the info 3 (sometimes natural, sometimes business) days before you arrive at the border. Take a look at http://www.ucanimport.com/Border_Crossing_Info.aspx for a good list of border crossings, but then search for the specific info for the border post and their instructions on the CBP website directly. For example, for Buffalo, look at http://www.cbp.gov/xp/cgov/toolbox/contacts/ports/ny/0901.xml and search "export a vehicle" to see an example of the instructions (other crossings sometimes need you to mail them the title so they receive it 3 business days prior so it's important to check for your specifics). You can search for other border crossings at http://www.cbp.gov/xp/cgov/toolbox/contacts/ports/ . Find out the location of the export office online or when you call them (it's not necessarily easy to find when you are at the border).
On the day of the crossing, stop by the CBP export office before you cross the border into Canada so they stamp your title to clear it for export.

3) Import the car into Canada
After you cross the border, tell the officer you are importing the car. Show them the stamped title and they'll send you inside to complete the process. Fill out the document at the Canadian border post - one page with your name, address, etc and car info. You'll need to get Form 1. If your car is included on your B4 (either submitted that day or previously), your tax rate will be 0% but make sure you keep the receipt carefully ... you'll need it at the Ministry of Transportation. Include your e-mail on Form 1 so the RIV e-mail you Form 2 (faster than mailing it). CBSA will be faxing Form 1 to the RIV.

4) Pay the import fee to the RIV and get your Form 2 from the RIV
You'll need to pay $195.00 + GST/HST (or QST) either at riv.com or by calling the RIV at 1-888-848-8240 (Mon. to Fri.: 7:00 a.m. to 12:00 midnight (EST), Sat. and Sun.: 7:00 a.m. to 5:00 p.m. (EST))
You'll need the red numbers from your Form 1 to do this step and they will then e-mail you Form 2 which you'll need to get the car inspected.

5) Get your car inspected for import inspection (at Canadian Tire) and, if necessary, provincial inspection
You'll need to get your car inspected to ensure it meets Canadian standards (remember the checklist you got at the beginning from riv.ca ... they'll check for those modifications so get them done before elsewhere or arrange to have them done at Canadian Tire). The cost is included in the import fee you paid to the RIV. Plan for an hour or hour and a half for the inspection.
Depending on the province, you may need a provincial inspection too. For expediency, you may want to have the provincial inspection done at Canadian Tire the same day. Just tell them when you make the appointment so they can schedule it in.
Canadian Tire will stamp Form 2, which you'll need at the Ministry of Transportation. Make sure they fax the form to the RIV so the system shows you passed the inspection.

6) Register your car and get plates at the Ministry of Transportation
The specifics vary by province

7) Cancel your US insurance and send your US plates back if your state requires them

8) Celebrate!!!

 

[chappan]

Dear "OhCanadiana",

Thank you very much! The information you have put is very informative and extremely useful and helpful.

Your quote: "The determining factor for whether you can use your car in Canada for a few days without importing it is whether you will be landing but essentially visiting Canada and still living in the US or whether you intend to 'live in' Canada immediately."

You are correct, I do not intend to live in Canada immediately. As I mentioned in my earlier post, I intend to return back to US either immediately or if I have time to go around and see some places in Canada, I'll return back within 2 days at the most.

However, my understanding is that as soon as I complete my landing formalities I'll officially become a Canadian "Resident", wouldn't I? Does it mean that I'll have to export my car before going to Windsor?

Regards,

 

[OhCanadiana]

Dear "OhCanadiana",

Thank you very much! The information you have put is very informative and extremely useful and helpful.

Your quote: "The determining factor for whether you can use your car in Canada for a few days without importing it is whether you will be landing but essentially visiting Canada and still living in the US or whether you intend to 'live in' Canada immediately."

You are correct, I do not intend to live in Canada immediately. As I mentioned in my earlier post, I intend to return back to US either immediately or if I have time to go around and see some places in Canada, I'll return back within 2 days at the most.

However, my understanding is that as soon as I complete my landing formalities I'll officially become a Canadian "Resident", wouldn't I? Does it mean that I'll have to export my car before going to Windsor?

Regards,

In Canada, you can be a 'resident' for some purposes but not others (unlike the US). So once you land, you'll be a 'resident' for immigration purposes but not necessarily for other purposes (CRA, customs, health care, etc.) See #9 of http://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/publications/dm-md/d2/d2-2-1-eng.pdf for the customs example.

 

[chappan]

Aah..I see. Sounds like It'll be ok to put my car on Goods to Follow list without actually exporting/importing it. Thank you very much once again.

 

[OhCanadiana]

Aah..I see. Sounds like It'll be ok to put my car on Goods to Follow list without actually exporting/importing it. Thank you very much once again.

You're welcome . Good luck!

 

[chappan]

I have one more question, just came to my mind. If I decide to put my car in Goods to follow list, will I also have to put my car details like make, model, VIN, etc in the section where it says, "All conveyances MUST be eligible for importation in accordance with Transport Canada requirements.
Vehicle import registration fees may also apply." on the B4 form?

 

[OhCanadiana]

I have one more question, just came to my mind. If I decide to put my car in Goods to follow list, will I also have to put my car details like make, model, VIN, etc in the section where it says, "All conveyances MUST be eligible for importation in accordance with Transport Canada requirements.
Vehicle import registration fees may also apply." on the B4 form?

Yes, vehicles must be declared on the B4 in the section about half-way down the page (just below the arrows below the text you mentioned)

 

[chappan]

This may sound a stupid question (and I know it is) but I'll still ask since I didn't ask it specifically before.

Do I also need to mention my car on "Goods Accompanying" list? If yes, I am assuming the car information needs to be put under 2 arrows again, correct?

 

[OhCanadiana]

This may sound a stupid question (and I know it is) but I'll still ask since I didn't ask it specifically before.

Do I also need to mention my car on "Goods Accompanying" list? If yes, I am assuming the car information needs to be put under 2 arrows again, correct?

Yes, the goods accompanying list is the B4. Just tick the box for goods to follow to show you're not importing everything upfront.

 

[chappan]

"Just tick the box for goods to follow to show you're not importing everything upfront."

Shouldn't ticking the checkbox be applicable to only "Goods to follow" list and not "Goods Accompanying". I understand both need to be done on different copies of B4 form. However, my understanding was the "Goods to follow" checkbox needs to be checked only on "Goods to follow" list and not on "Goods Accompanying". Please clarify.