URGENT - Loss of Job while waiting for PR Application (CEC) to be processed

[Wolfpmd3]

Hi all,

Firstly, I just joined the forum so apologies in advance if this isn't the correct section to ask this question but I was hoping someone could provide me with advice/insights before I try and get on the phone with CIC in the morning.

I have a pending PR application (AOR Jan 4 2019) and back in February 21 I lost my job due to mass layoffs. I was hired for that job under the LMIA program. I immediately informed CIC of this change of circumstances and was advised by immigration lawyers that because I was applying under CEC this wouldn't be a problem. I searched a bit the forum and have seen the same info from senior members, e.g.

Today I received a message from CIC stating the following:



I did apply for a BOWP and have a job offer from a different employer that I was hoping to start as soon as I get a new permit. After reading this message i'm tremendously concerned about my PR application.

Did anyone have to deal with a similar experience? I just re-checked the requirements for CEC and it doesn't mention a valid job offer so I'm a bit confused about how concerned i should be.

Any help would be appreciated.

Thank you kindly
Antonio

You must have claimed 50 points for Arranged employment. If your offer the one you had hoping to start as soon, you should just let them know about this, possibly send them an updated offer of employment letter.

Also, I don't understand why you are waiting to start this job, your WP is valid you don't need to wait until your Bringing WP is approved.

It doesn't make much sense.

 

[Wolfpmd3]

Jes On : even if the CRS drops below that round it is still not a problem right ? Because the points gets locked on the date of AOR as long as the minimum eligibility is met

Of course it's a problem, that's why you have to keep your score at least as high as the minimum for the round when you received your ITA.

If losing your job, or anything else changes you must let them know which will modify your score and might therefore make you ineligible.

Of course, age and stuff like that do get locked and doesn't matter if you have a Birthday after the ITA.

 

[iiqra]

Of course it's a problem, that's why you have to keep your score at least as high as the minimum for the round when you received your ITA.

If losing your job, or anything else changes you must let them know which will modify your score and might therefore make you ineligible.

Of course, age and stuff like that do get locked and doesn't matter if you have a Birthday after the ITA.

From what I understand from IRCC's website, the requirement to maintain minimum entry criteria (MEC) and the requirement to maintain CRS score is different.

The MEC for express entry (canadian experience class) being:
1) Minimum of 1 year skilled work experience
2) Language ability which meets or exceeds the threshold of CBL 7
3) Education credentials report

CRS Score needs to be maintained until you submit your application and go from a candidate status to an "applicant" status. After that, any change in circumstances will not lead to application refusal even if your CRS score falls below the minimum for your round of invitations.

So for example if you lost your job AFTER you submitted a completed PR application to IRCC your score WILL go down by 50 points however that will not lead to the refusal of application as that change happened after you applied. An exception to this rule however is if the agent believes that the change in circumstance actually happened before you submitted your application and only declared it after submitting your application. Also another exception is if because of the change, you fail to meet the MEC (mentioned above) and also in a situation where the agent believes the change happened to deliberately manipulate your application i.e. marriage of convenience after you have submitted your application.

Overall I feel that MEC and CRS scores are two different things. CRS score only there to enable you to be at a certain threshold in order to be invited to apply (to control the applicant workflow) and needs to be maintained until you submit your application. However, MEC is what needs to maintained throughout.

 

[Wolfpmd3]

From what I understand from IRCC's website, the requirement to maintain minimum entry criteria (MEC) and the requirement to maintain CRS score is different.

The MEC for express entry (canadian experience class) being:
1) Minimum of 1 year skilled work experience
2) Language ability which meets or exceeds the threshold of CBL 7
3) Education credentials report

CRS Score needs to be maintained until you submit your application and go from a candidate status to an "applicant" status. After that, any change in circumstances will not lead to application refusal even if your CRS score falls below the minimum for your round of invitations.

So for example if you lost your job AFTER you submitted a completed PR application to IRCC your score WILL go down by 50 points however that will not lead to the refusal of application as that change happened after you applied. An exception to this rule however is if the agent believes that the change in circumstance actually happened before you submitted your application and only declared it after submitting your application. Also another exception is if because of the change, you fail to meet the MEC (mentioned above) and also in a situation where the agent believes the change happened to deliberately manipulate your application i.e. marriage of convenience after you have submitted your application.

Overall I feel that MEC and CRS scores are two different things. CRS score only there to enable you to be at a certain threshold in order to be invited to apply (to control the applicant workflow) and needs to be maintained until you submit your application. However, MEC is what needs to maintained throughout.

No, completely the opposite.

So the MEC, is what makes you eligible for CEC (such as at least 1 year experience in last 3 years, minimum language + no intention to live in Québec) --> This is what makes you eligible to receive an invitation under this category.

On the other hand, CRS is what ranks you in the pool of candidates and depending on how high you rank you will either receive an invitation based on this CRS. For that reason, it's this CRS which has to remain at least as high as the cut-off used in the round in which you were invited.

Anything that changes this score after you have received the application should be taken into consideration. If you have not applied then you shouldn't because you no longer meet the threshold (although you are still eligible for CEC which is determined by the MEC, which in theory will very hardly ever happen).

If you have already applied and your score falls below the threshold, you will have your application refused (provided you let them know). If you don't let them know you could be deemed inadmisible for 5 years due to misrepresentation.

So for example, you applied 4 months ago and then no longer have a valid job offer (arranged employment), which makes your score fall from 490 to 400 in a round where the cut-off score was 452. Automatically, because you would not had been invited in your round with this score your application is automatically no longer feasible and you will enter the pool again (because you still meet the MEC) and will potentially be invited again provided the cut-off score drops to at least as low as your new score is (you original profile creation date/time stamp will remain your original one and not the new date in which you came back into the pool).

I hope this clarifies.

 

[iiqra]

No, completely the opposite.

So the MEC, is what makes you eligible for CEC (such as at least 1 year experience in last 3 years, minimum language + no intention to live in Québec) --> This is what makes you eligible to receive an invitation under this category.

On the other hand, CRS is what ranks you in the pool of candidates and depending on how high you rank you will either receive an invitation based on this CRS. For that reason, it's this CRS which has to remain at least as high as the cut-off used in the round in which you were invited.

Anything that changes this score after you have received the application should be taken into consideration. If you have not applied then you shouldn't because you no longer meet the threshold (although you are still eligible for CEC which is determined by the MEC, which in theory will very hardly ever happen).

If you have already applied and your score falls below the threshold, you will have your application refused (provided you let them know). If you don't let them know you could be deemed inadmisible for 5 years due to misrepresentation.

So for example, you applied 4 months ago and then no longer have a valid job offer (arranged employment), which makes your score fall from 490 to 400 in a round where the cut-off score was 452. Automatically, because you would not had been invited in your round with this score your application is automatically no longer feasible and you will enter the pool again (because you still meet the MEC) and will potentially be invited again provided the cut-off score drops to at least as low as your new score is (you original profile creation date/time stamp will remain your original one and not the new date in which you came back into the pool).

I hope this clarifies.

I don't think this is entirely correct. MEC does not make you eligible for an invitation - it allows you to be accepted in the pool of candidates. CRS is what determines whether you get an invitation to apply or not. You need to maintain CRS score up until the point that you submit your application.

I spoke with my MP who has been in touch with CIC in regards to my case and I was informed that my loss of job does not affect my PR application as it happened after the date of AOR.

It does mean that my points were adjusted accordingly in my application (-50 points which puts me below the minimum CRS for my round of invitations) however that has no significant impact on the overall decision as I still meet the MEC and am able to explain my loss of job to IRCC.

Unless my MP was dishonest with me, I am inclined to believe her as well as the information clearly laid out on IRCC's website. Or maybe this is just me being hopeful. In any case I shall find out soon!!

 

[Wolfpmd3]

Well, I guess you're right... I might have miss understood a bit. Which is good news.

Although the PN might be different, but that a whole different story.

This is from IRCC:

After an e-APR is submitted, an application cannot be refused due to a change in circumstance unless

• the officer determines that the change occurred before the applicant submitted their e-APR and that the change would have caused the applicant to be refused under section A11.2: therefore, the application should be refused under section A11.2; or
• the change in circumstance means the applicant no longer meets the minimum requirements of the program to which they are applying; therefore, the application may still meet the requirements of section A11.2 but can be refused for failing to meet program requirements.

 

[SufiyanAhmed]

Any updates did you guys get the PR? I’ll appreciate your response. Thanks!

 

[roland1990]

Well, I guess you're right... I might have miss understood a bit. Which is good news.

Although the PN might be different, but that a whole different story.

This is from IRCC:

After an e-APR is submitted, an application cannot be refused due to a change in circumstance unless

• the officer determines that the change occurred before the applicant submitted their e-APR and that the change would have caused the applicant to be refused under section A11.2: therefore, the application should be refused under section A11.2; or
• the change in circumstance means the applicant no longer meets the minimum requirements of the program to which they are applying; therefore, the application may still meet the requirements of section A11.2 but can be refused for failing to meet program requirements.

@Wolfpmd3, @iiqra I have been working for my employer for two (1+1) years on a closed work permit with LMIA. It was again renewed for two more years (closed WP with LMIA). While on the this work permit, I applied for PR as I already had two years of experience with my employer. I claimed 50 points for job offer while on the current 2 year closed work permit with LMIA . At the time of AOR (Feb 2020), the closed work permit with LMIA still had almost 1.5 years left to expire. The job offer letter also has a line which mentions the job offer is valid for a year if I'm given a PR visa.

Due to the pandemic, if I loose the job,

a) will the 50 points claimed for job offer be deducted from my CRS which would bring it under the cut off, eventually resulting in rejection of the PR application

OR

b) since the job loss occurred after AOR, even though may bring the CRS below cut off, it will not result in rejection

 

[Wolfpmd3]

@Wolfpmd3, @iiqra I have been working for my employer for two (1+1) years on a closed work permit with LMIA. It was again renewed for two more years (closed WP with LMIA). While on the this work permit, I applied for PR as I already had two years of experience with my employer. I claimed 50 points for job offer while on the current 2 year closed work permit with LMIA . At the time of AOR (Feb 2020), the closed work permit with LMIA still had almost 1.5 years left to expire. The job offer letter also has a line which mentions the job offer is valid for a year if I'm given a PR visa.

Due to the pandemic, if I loose the job,

a) will the 50 points claimed for job offer be deducted from my CRS which would bring it under the cut off, eventually resulting in rejection of the PR application

OR

b) since the job loss occurred after AOR, even though may bring the CRS below cut off, it will not result in rejection

It will most likely mean the 50 points will be deducted. Or at least it will prompt IRCC to confirm with your employer they're intending to employ you for a year once you become a PR.

However, just having that might not be enough to claim the 50 points. You should have included a letter of your employer stating you will be employed for at least one year after you become a PR. If you didn't provide something like that you may not get the points to begin with.

 

[roland1990]

It will most likely mean the 50 points will be deducted. Or at least it will prompt IRCC to confirm with your employer they're intending to employ you for a year once you become a PR.

However, just having that might not be enough to claim the 50 points. You should have included a letter of your employer stating you will be employed for at least one year after you become a PR. If you didn't provide something like that you may not get the points to begin with.

Thanks @Wolfpmd3 My job offer letter at the time of AOR has a line which says the current employer's job offer is valid up until 1 year after the PR is issued and I work for the same employer now. As of now, my employer fully supports the job offer. According to the GCMS notes, IRCC has have accepted this and their calculation shows this 50 points for job offer added to the CRS and the eligibility is passed. I have no intention of leaving my current employer. However, I'm asking a hypothetical question that if in future, things take a bad turn and I'm laid off, then would I loose the 50 points after passing the eligibility stage ?

 

[scenestrange]

I don't think this is entirely correct. MEC does not make you eligible for an invitation - it allows you to be accepted in the pool of candidates. CRS is what determines whether you get an invitation to apply or not. You need to maintain CRS score up until the point that you submit your application.

I spoke with my MP who has been in touch with CIC in regards to my case and I was informed that my loss of job does not affect my PR application as it happened after the date of AOR.

It does mean that my points were adjusted accordingly in my application (-50 points which puts me below the minimum CRS for my round of invitations) however that has no significant impact on the overall decision as I still meet the MEC and am able to explain my loss of job to IRCC.

Unless my MP was dishonest with me, I am inclined to believe her as well as the information clearly laid out on IRCC's website. Or maybe this is just me being hopeful. In any case I shall find out soon!!

can you please update your status of your application ?TIA

 

[ashish0319]

Hi. Will the Job offer points be adjusted from ITA or e-APR?

 

[ceceh]

Hi. Will the Job offer points be adjusted from ITA or e-APR?

If you lose a job offer, the points earned from it (usually 50) will be deducted anyway, even after AOR.

 

[ashish0319]

If you lose a job offer, the points earned from it (usually 50) will be deducted anyway, even after AOR.

Thanks. What if CRS at APR is more than ITA due to better IELTS Score. If Job Offer is removed, CRS at APR is above the CRS at that round of invitation, but falls below at ITA. Do you think it will be rejected.

 

[ceceh]

Thanks. What if CRS at APR is more than ITA due to better IELTS Score. If Job Offer is removed, CRS at APR is above the CRS at that round of invitation, but falls below at ITA. Do you think it will be rejected.

They will consider the CRS minimum score for the round that you received ITA. If you lose a job offer and your score is below that, you will no longer be eligible to apply and they will cancel/refuse your application