Upcoming Citizenship Judge Appointment - Need Advice

[mathlete]

So really briefly:

I moved to Canada in March of 2005 as an international student. I got PR after I got married in 2009.

In December of 2011 I applied for citizenship. I got RQ'ed in March 2012, and wrote and passed the citizenship test in June 2014.

When I applied in 2011 I went through my passport and gmail mined my email for the trips I took. I applied thinking I had 2 weeks more physical presents then required. I was under pressure to apply then because I was leaving in January for another trip and had already delayed by application by many months due to not having physical presents as a result of having to travel for work purposes. I was also afraid that I would have to travel a lot for work purposes and thus would never get citizenship in perpetuity.

After getting RQed I got a CBSA report (didn't know you get this report prior to RQ) which indicated that I had missed trips due to CBSA not stamping my passport and my email searches failing because I flew out of different airports. It turned out I was 1.5 days short of the physical presents requirement. This was disclosed to the CIC in March 2012.

So after the test I have this "document-verification" interview where the guy notes that I do not have all the physical required days. I explain that this was disclosed back in 2012 and long story short the case is being referred to a judge.

So my questions: Has anyone been in this situation before and can explain how it worked out for them?
How long do I now have to wait for a judge interview?
What are the chances I now have to reapply?

 

[janoo]

total processing time for not routine application 36 month.

 

[swindsor2010]

total processing time for not routine application 36 month.

Poor guy, wrote all that just to get a "routine application is 36 months"... lol... maybe one of the more experienced members can give this guy some advice?

Hey, I think it all depends on how strictly they interpreter the law. If they go by the books you missed by 1 and 1/2 day and you need to apply again. You should go to the judge and do your best to leave him with the best impression of you possible. Come prepared with all kinds of documents showing you have been a good citizen and a proactive member of society, and ask him to use his discretion to your favor, after all is just a day and half.

any other comments?

 

[FL1040]

total processing time for not routine application 36 month.

Not now...I sent my application in April 2013, got an RQ and my ceremony is on July 10

 

[eileenf]

Total processing times are an average of the fastest 80% of cases. They are not a maximum processing timeline, and they almost surely exclude cases where a citizenship judge hearing is required. So, "it takes 36 months" is not accurate in this case.

For the original poster: Call your MP, ask them to enquire with CIC about your case. This is one of the few situations where they may be able to get you some information. Also ask your MP staff what the wait time is for a judge hearing in your district. My guess is that the wait time is around a year for a judge's hearing, but it varies greatly depending on where you are.

Almost 100% of physical presence shortfall cases are referred to judges. Depending on what you find out regarding wait times for judges in your area, you may consider withdrawing your application and reapplying, assuming that you have safely more than 1095 days in the last 4 years. As to whether your case will be successful or not, that depends on a ton of particularities as well as the judge you are seeing. About 47% of hearings result in denials (though something like 20-30% of applicants do not show up to their hearings and it is unclear how these are counted in the statistics). Source is page 12 http://www.documentcloud.org/documents/713744-citizenship-and-immigration-canada-management.html It used to be that judges almost always approved cases with 900 or more days or physical presence, but that's not necessarily the case anymore. Use the search function on here to search "citizenship judge hearing" to get a sense of some people's experiences.

Please seriously consider bringing a lawyer with you. This should improve your chances as well.

Under the current citizenship act, there are three different tests the judge can use to assess whether you have the required presence here. They can use the Koo test ("centralized mode of existence" test, so you would probably be approved), the strict physical presence test (the Pourghasemi test) (you would not be approved) or the Papadogiorgakis test (seemingly the least popular, it uses a tax definition of residency). All are currently valid. You will have to research each test and assess what your chances are with each.

Koo test is:
(1) Was the individual physically present in Canada for a long period prior to recent absences which occurred immediately before the application for citizenship?
(2) Where are the applicant's immediate family and dependants (and extended family) resident?
(3) Does the pattern of physical presence in Canada indicate a returning home or merely visiting the country?
(4) What is the extent of the physical absences?
(5) Is the physical absence caused by a clearly temporary situation such as employment as a missionary abroad, following a course of study abroad as a student, accepting temporary employment abroad, or accompanying a spouse who has accepted temporary employment abroad?
(6) What is the quality of the connection with Canada – is it more substantial than that which exists with any other country?

 

[vinaypuri]

What is your office FL1040?

It seems a lot depends on office. I submitted my RQ to Scarborough office almost 2 Months ago and every time I call them it says it is waiting for Citizenship officer assignment for review.

I have seen if you have received RQ from CIC St. Clair it is even worst. In Mississauga it is Just in Time processing it seems.

Not now...I sent my application in April 2013, got an RQ and my ceremony is on July 10

 

[mathlete]

Total processing times are an average of the fastest 80% of cases. They are not a maximum processing timeline, and they almost surely exclude cases where a citizenship judge hearing is required. So, "it takes 36 months" is not accurate in this case.

For the original poster: Call your MP, ask them to enquire with CIC about your case. This is one of the few situations where they may be able to get you some information. Also ask your MP staff what the wait time is for a judge hearing in your district. My guess is that the wait time is around a year for a judge's hearing, but it varies greatly depending on where you are.

Almost 100% of physical presence shortfall cases are referred to judges. Depending on what you find out regarding wait times for judges in your area, you may consider withdrawing your application and reapplying, assuming that you have safely more than 1095 days in the last 4 years. As to whether your case will be successful or not, that depends on a ton of particularities as well as the judge you are seeing. About 47% of hearings result in denials (though something like 20-30% of applicants do not show up to their hearings and it is unclear how these are counted in the statistics). Source is page 12 http://www.documentcloud.org/documents/713744-citizenship-and-immigration-canada-management.html It used to be that judges almost always approved cases with 900 or more days or physical presence, but that's not necessarily the case anymore. Use the search function on here to search "citizenship judge hearing" to get a sense of some people's experiences.

Please seriously consider bringing a lawyer with you. This should improve your chances as well.

Under the current citizenship act, there are three different tests the judge can use to assess whether you have the required presence here. They can use the Koo test ("centralized mode of existence" test, so you would probably be approved), the strict physical presence test (the Pourghasemi test) (you would not be approved) or the Papadogiorgakis test (seemingly the least popular, it uses a tax definition of residency). All are currently valid. You will have to research each test and assess what your chances are with each.

Koo test is:
(1) Was the individual physically present in Canada for a long period prior to recent absences which occurred immediately before the application for citizenship?
(2) Where are the applicant's immediate family and dependants (and extended family) resident?
(3) Does the pattern of physical presence in Canada indicate a returning home or merely visiting the country?
(4) What is the extent of the physical absences?
(5) Is the physical absence caused by a clearly temporary situation such as employment as a missionary abroad, following a course of study abroad as a student, accepting temporary employment abroad, or accompanying a spouse who has accepted temporary employment abroad?
(6) What is the quality of the connection with Canada – is it more substantial than that which exists with any other country?

Thanks for the reply. By the Koo or Tax tests I would pass. I've never lived anywhere else, only work in Canada and both my spouse and myself reside here.

The problem with the physical resident requirement is that it is extremely biased to people based on their situations. If you are required to travel for work you can maintain your PR but will never get citizenship in perpetuity if you are outside the country for more than 25% of the year. At any given time of year I will fail below that or above that since only the last 4 years are applicable to the physical presents requirement.
Over the past 4 years I have taken a total of 40 trips outside Canada the vast majority have been for business.

It has taken me 2.6 years to get a test date and I really don't want to start over since I will most likely be RQ'ed again.

 

[mathlete]

What is your office FL1040?

It seems a lot depends on office. I submitted my RQ to Scarborough office almost 2 Months ago and every time I call them it says it is waiting for Citizenship officer assignment for review.

I have seen if you have received RQ from CIC St. Clair it is even worst. In Mississauga it is Just in Time processing it seems.

My office is St. Clair

 

[vinaypuri]

Everyone I have seen so far, do not have good experience with St. Clair RQs. Stay positive you never know. Lot has been changing within CIC, they have appointed two new judges in GTA area.

So let's keep fingers crossed and hope for the best!.

My office is St. Clair