Unusual question before submission

[BeShoo]

I have been divorced officially and recently. Shortly after that we got married (same sex). BTW: I just don't like, don't taste the word "GAY". Don't ask me why...I don't know why either.

You are free to use whatever words you want between yourselves. Just keep in mind that words don't necessarily mean what you want them to mean, and arbitrarily redefining them to suit your own purposes may backfire if they are not understood by the reader or listener in the way you intend. For most purposes, words generally mean whatever the consensus of society decides that they mean and you are powerless as an individual to exert much influence over this consensus. Of course, the consensus does change over time, and probably with nearly every word in every language.

You just have to work with whatever definition your listener/reader works with. In the case of a PR application, the definition they are working with is whatever is defined in the law or regulations, and if it's not defined there, whatever society has agreed on that it means. I have not been able to find and actual definition of "husband" or "wife" in Canadian law (though I very well might not have looked in the right place). Canadian law, in its present form, tends to use the gender-neutral "spouse" in places where it might have used "husband" or "wife" in the past. For immigration purposes, I don't thin kit makes any difference whether you are husband and wife, or both wives, or both husbands.

Incidentally, I happen to like the word "gay" but that doesn't mean you should, and I didn't use it in my previous post in the this thread, though it's a word I would use to describe myself and my partner. Some people like to be called "queer" but that's a term I detest. You can use whichever words you want, though it's best to avoid any that might not be good for your application and to use the words that would help, even if you don't like them.

Another issue: we are planning to have kids. In my eyes and opinion, the best biological father for our future kids is my ex. He may not go for it..he may not approve. But also, my current husband is not feeling ease about this. Would that create any problem with CIC even later after the sponsorship is finished?

This is not something I would mention in the application if I were you. To a perfect stranger, it does cast doubt on whether your previous marriage is genuinely over. Once the visa is granted, I don't see this as a problem, as long as everything is as you say.

 

[KimJuliBC]

Many thanks

"To conceive..to produce own children" is a future plan. It has nothing to do with our current application. I guess, it would be part of our freedom in life. The only reason I thought of my ex as a prospective biological father is that I have known him as "very healthy both physically and mentally, good looking, free of any inherited disorders or diseases, very healthy life style". So, this should be safer than the UNKNOWN. Because he lives in same town, I was wondering if this issue would create a conflict in the long future.

 

[canadianwoman]

The visa officer at an interview may ask the applicant and also the sponsor about their plans for children. I agree with BeShoo that it would be better not to mention that you are thinking of having kids with your ex. You can still say you want to have kids, though, but that you haven't made plans for them yet.
As for calling each other 'husband' and 'wife' - that is completely up to you. If you don't want to in the application forms, you don't have to, and can use the word 'spouse'. If you are using chats, messages, and emails where you refer to each other as 'husband' and 'wife', add a note at the beginning of the sections that contain this relationship proof explaining who is who and that you call each other 'husband' and 'wife'. Any time you use the word 'husband' on the forms, make sure it is very clear which husband is meant - the current one or the ex.

Because the ex-husband was sponsored, I am afraid that the change from a straight relationship to a same-sex one is going to be an issue. The visa officer might believe the current relationship is genuine, but then say that the straight marriage must then have been one of convenience. I'd include a little bit of evidence about this first marriage for that reason - you don't want the visa officer to think it was a MOC, so explain this relationship, how your feelings changed, and how it is you decided on a same-sex relationship. The problem with the visa officer thinking the first marriage was a MOC is that this makes them distrust the sponsor. The attitude will be 'she lied once, so she's probably lying again.' To combat this, you will have to address the first marriage and make a convincing claim that it was a genuine marriage that just did not work out - and say why.

 

[BeShoo]

I agree completely with everything canadianwoman said.

Also, it's good to have future plans, but future plans with your ex-husband are not good. I certain wouldn't mention that, especially when that part might never happen.

 

[KimJuliBC]

Hello,

Just to avoid confusion: I am the "husband" and I am the one to be sponsorED by my "wife", the Sponsor.
Plz don't think negaively about our application and don't simply take is as if we r hiding something or say "installing" piece by piece in our case history in here.
At the beginning of our relationship, I did not think that sponsorship and moving to Canada could be as complicated as it appears. My wife, was also in same page of mine as it seems that her previous sponsorship of her Ex was straightforward and a piece of cake.
Now, I am facing dilemma, after reading and inquiring all over the places.
I have a 5 y old son from previous relationship. I had the child while I was still in the grey area regarding my true emotions and gender orientation.
Can my son (back home with his biological father) be included in this sponsorship? I can not leave him behind at any price. My family, back home, have been devastated by the tremendous change of my life and attitude. The father of son will fight with all his sharpened teeth and nails to stop me having my son, even if I was still in our own country. My ex, his family and my own family think of us as "sick people-sick couple".
What can we do?

 

[matthewc]

You can only include your son as an accompanying dependent on the PR application if you have full legal custody, or the consent of the other parent.

If you don't have custody, or consent to take the son to Canada, he still has to be examined (medical exam), to preserve your right to sponsor him to Canada in the future (you could still only do that, in the future, with the consent of the other parent or full custody).

If he's living with the other parent and you can't get him examined, that becomes a real problem. Let us know what the custody situation is first, though.

 

[KimJuliBC]

The custody has been dealt with earlier and it belongs to his father. I have no custody. His father will never allow me to get his medical examination done. His father made it clear that in order for me to bring my son to Canada, he (the father) must come with him. I do not know how I can do that!

 

[matthewc]

There is no way to include your son and his father. You could include your son, but - like I said - only if you have full custody or consent.

If the father wants to move to Canada as well, he would need to qualify through one of the economic classes, e.g. as a skilled worker.

At a minimum - even if you accept you won't be able to bring your son to Canada with you and go ahead anyway - you're going to need to try to convince the father to have your son's medical done. That is vital in order to preserve your right to sponsor him at a later date. One never likes to think the unthinkable, but it's important to preserve the option of your son coming to Canada if something were to happen to the father. If he doesn't want to have it done, frame it as an insurance option. It doesn't mean the son will come to Canada, it just means that if your son were to end up needing to live with you for some reason, that would still be a possibility. Not having the medical done would close that door, permanently.

I realise relationships can be far more complex than the box CIC likes to put everything in, but I would stay very well clear of mentioning any plans to have either of your ex's father future children. That's only likely to cause issues in their assessment of your relationship.

 

[MD2B]

Come on guys - really?

 

[KimJuliBC]

Thanks matthewc
Your answer is great.
I think you, because both my wife and I write in this thread there can be sort of mix-up or confusion. My wife, is the one who is planning to get her own future children fathered by her Ex. This is only an option and for the future. I, personally, do not feel comfortable with that option as we both need our own life and to dissociate totally from the past and Exs. But again, this issue is not on our burden yet.
I know, for sure, that I cannot bring my son and his father all together. This will never happen. He just wanted to make it impossible for me by asking for the impossible. He is well established there and does not need to immigrate or move somewhere else. He is so stubborn. He is anti-gay. He hates us. So, I am 100% sure he will not allow the medical test to take place. And I will be devastated to forget my son forever. How can the law of Canada allow manipulation like this one?

 

[KimJuliBC]

Come on guys - really?

Sorry, kindly can you explain what you mean?

 

[matthewc]

He is so stubborn. He is anti-gay. He hates us. So, I am 100% sure he will not allow the medical test to take place. And I will be devastated to forget my son forever. How can the law of Canada allow manipulation like this one?

If he's stubborn about it I'd suggest you put it to him like this:

If he gets killed in a car accident after you move to Canada, and nobody is able to look after your son, what would he prefer happen: would he rather his son was taken in by social services, fostered and/or adopted by someone none of you have ever met, or would he rather the option exist for his mother to look after him.

If he really has the best interests of his son in mind, the decision is obvious. Refusing to have the medical done in order to spite you is really only putting his son's future options in jeopardy.

 

[KimJuliBC]

Bump !

 

[arron]

Like I said in my other thread, if nothing else works maybe he is not above making a little extra money, for the christmas season?

Say it costs $200 to do the medical, why not tell him that you will give him an extra $200 for a days work, taking your son in to the doctor and getting him tested, after all he stands to lose nothing by it.