unfortunate but true

[jazibkg]

But the weird thing is that instead of being honest and inviting best McDonalds or KFC workers from Asia or Africa you almost have to be a doctor or an engineer to qualify for immigration. Only to discover that nobody needs your professional skills no matter what they are. McDonalds workers from Mumbai would probably be super happy to work in Brampton doing the work they know and are content with for a lot more more money and in a safer environment. Likewise McDonalds customers would be delighted to be served by professional, polite, and happy people. A medical doctor from Mumbai would not be happy flipping burgers in McDonalds. But the irony is that the former does not qualify for immigration, and the latter does.

This is the best paragraph I've read on this forum in a long time, with a perfectly coherent thought process and logical flow. I couldn't agree more with you on this.

I am so glad we are finally speaking about these things out in the open now as they're way to often just pushed down behind the rug. But this is the ground reality in Canada, we must accept it, face it and try to better it rather in reveling in the 'perfect' country that it is supposed to be.

Contrary to what many people think, criticizing the ills of a country or society one lives in doesn't mean that one dislikes it and is against it, to the contrary it means that the person cares.

 

[Politren]

For all the time I've spend living here, I didn't see any of my friends to succeed in finding a good job. Many of them even studied different programs from the universities in order to have Canadian degree, but the end result is ---> returning to general labour position with miserable income.
Many people regret that they've come here.
Even from the ratio of the disappointed users in this thread we can estimate that the problem is huge.

 

[newtone]

torontosm will tell you to change your circle of friends. You are just hanging out with the wrong crowd

 

[next2015]

This is the best paragraph I've read on this forum in a long time, with a perfectly coherent thought process and logical flow. I couldn't agree more with you on this.

I am so glad we are finally speaking about these things out in the open now as they're way to often just pushed down behind the rug. But this is the ground reality in Canada, we must accept it, face it and try to better it rather in reveling in the 'perfect' country that it is supposed to be.

Contrary to what many people think, criticizing the ills of a country or society one lives in doesn't mean that one dislikes it and is against it, to the contrary it means that the person cares.

I agree. I only wish the poster didn't have to say, "best McDonalds or KFC workers from Asia or Africa". I guess he/she has not been to these regions hence the mentality that such work is more suitable for people from these regions (read population with no qualifications). Fact is ive seen people with degrees in computer science, economics etc. work the equivalent of so called Walmart jobs, call centers etc. in Africa and the number (of such individuals) is much bigger compared to the likes of the U.S. I think one can make their point without making such references. The rate of unemployment is high in these regions, but it is wrong to think the population is uneducated or unskilled and therefore... You will be amazed.

Just saying, but the poster makes a good point. The canadian government should invite individuals with no skills (from any part of the world ) to do these jobs. People invest a lot of their time and hard earned money to obtain an immigrant visa and settle. They leave behind a life they had built over time with the hope for a much better life only to realize they were better off staying home. Unfortunately, going back home is complicated coz they have no job to go back to (yet have a "survival" job in Canada), without a job survival may be even harder back home so the logical decision is stay in Canada and keep the faith.

It is mind boggling that the government releases stats periodically which indicate a need for skilled individuals in various areas. With the number of under-employed skilled immigrants surely there's enough people within the country to fulfill the needs painted by these stats; and yet the solution (according to the govt) is to bring in another 250,000 people?

I am inclined to believe this model is simply meant to sustain the economy at a macro and micro level. The banks have more money to lend, there's more people spending - both happening steadily. If one was to eliminate the oil factor from the economy, I wonder what the economic figures would look like? The immigration factor I believe is a good buffer (read reduces reliance on one major activity).

 

[Politren]

torontosm will tell you to change your circle of friends. You are just hanging out with the wrong crowd

I think that the casinos are using the same misleading marketing like the guy you are referring to "Showing the minor exception cases as a norm"
You know how the casinos always shows the small number of winners but they hide the rest of the loosing money majority.

 

[jazibkg]

I agree. I only wish the poster didn't have to say, "best McDonalds or KFC workers from Asia or Africa". I guess he/she has not been to these regions hence the mentality that such work is more suitable for people from these regions (read population with no qualifications). Fact is ive seen people with degrees in computer science, economics etc. work the equivalent of so called Walmart jobs, call centers etc. in Africa and the number (of such individuals) is much bigger compared to the likes of the U.S. I think one can make their point without making such references. The rate of unemployment is high in these regions, but it is wrong to think the population is uneducated or unskilled and therefore... You will be amazed.

Just saying, but the poster makes a good point. The canadian government should invite individuals with no skills (from any part of the world ) to do these jobs. People invest a lot of their time and hard earned money to obtain an immigrant visa and settle. They leave behind a life they had built over time with the hope for a much better life only to realize they were better off staying home. Unfortunately, going back home is complicated coz they have no job to go back to (yet have a "survival" job in Canada), without a job survival may be even harder back home so the logical decision is stay in Canada and keep the faith.

Well, the higher number of skilled immigrants are from Asia and Africa, so I'm sure the poster didn't have any bias in mind, just stating something in a simple way. Also, since many of the African countries were French and British colonies, the workers in those countries have a good command of English and French. I think that is the relationship the original poster intended to show.

I agree with your point about the high unemployment rate in these regions, and it is such that it is the primary force behind the immigration to Canada concept; its sad that people migrate here to find the same bleak situation of unemployment, although not drastic in quantity as the one they have experienced in their home country.

 

[DirectEnergy]

I agree. I only wish the poster didn't have to say, "best McDonalds or KFC workers from Asia or Africa". I guess he/she has not been to these regions hence the mentality that such work is more suitable for people from these regions (read population with no qualifications).

I think you misunderstood me, my friend. All I meant is that unskilled jobs pay comparatively little in Asia or Africa, and for an unskilled worker from there getting an unskilled job position in Canada would mean better standards of life. On the other hand, for a professional (a doctor from Mumbai in my example) moving to Canada is way too often a step backward. That is all

 

[next2015]

I think you misunderstood me, my friend. All I meant is that unskilled jobs pay comparatively little in Asia or Africa, and for an unskilled worker from there getting an unskilled job position in Canada would mean better standards of life. On the other hand, for a professional (a doctor from Mumbai in my example) moving to Canada is way too often a step backward. That is all

That makes perfect sense. Now I totally agree.

 

[realtexdex]

I appreciate this honest ,mature and cerebral discussion. It is time to take off the rose tinted glasses! Moving on, maybe it is time to do something about this paucity of white collar jobs!

 

[next2015]

I appreciate this honest ,mature and cerebral discussion. It is time to take off the rose tinted glasses! Moving on, maybe it is time to do something about this paucity of white collar jobs!

I admire your attitude. Unfortunately, at this point the government must run the first lap of this race to change the situation. In my opinion, it would be wise to suspend the acceptance of immigration applications for may be 2-3 years (at the least), understand why most immigrants are under-employed (there is always more than the obvious reasons), then put in place the necessary structures/models to resolve the problem. Once the necessary changes are implemented in the system, then the immigrants will pick up the buck to complete the race. You cannot rebuild the house from the roof down, it must be from the ground up.

My line of thought is simple; it is useless to bring in more people if those that came in earlier are still struggling. You need to make sure that those that came in earlier are well placed to fulfill their potential, to contribute to the country's growth through the direct use of their professional skills. It is impossible to achieve this for all, but acceptable if a significant percentage are well placed. The question becomes, at what point should the system check-off the percentage as significant? At 60%, 70% or 90%? That's a discussion for policy for the makers I guess.

The other option is to reduce the caps and I mean reduce them seriously as the in-house clean up goes on. Some will say EE is a solution in line with this, I think it does not quite solve the problem since there is no push to do the in-house cleaning, which in my view is the first step to successful change.

I am not saying the government should go out and create jobs. I do not believe in such a model (the greek will tell you how dangerous this can be), but I believe the government has the responsibility to create the right environment, the stimulants for job creation. Perhaps (for example), the regulatory body for medical doctors should be put to task to explain the delays in processing and or approval for internationally trained docs or why it is almost impossible for these individuals to even get residency training. In addition, it may help to put policies around the process that ensure its timely and plays to completion. From what I've heard, most docs have their applications or paper work simply stuck somewhere - the applicants are in waiting.

My thoughts, my opinion.

 

[Politren]

That's a good question, what the educated immigrants should do after all these years of immigration policy from the government which created such long waiting lines for the good positions. Absolutely extreme competition from huge number of candidates for one available good position.
How realistic is that in the near future the situation will be better?
Or maybe the better solution is to stop wasting our lives here for cheap survival and go to another better country?

 

[next2015]

Politren,
That is indeed a quick but definitely not easy solution. I see two problems:

1. The other "better" countries have very tough and complicated immigration systems compared to canada. Few immigrants in Canada may be selected (unfortunately) for admission even through a lottery draw as it makes the pool far too big - I'm sure your familiar with probability theory . For some like the U.S, the process is a bit too complicated that submitting an application personally may be unwise - you will need to procure the services of a lawyer unless you go the dv lottery route. And worse, most avenues will require that you have a job offer as the application is only accepted (for consideration) if submitted by an employer.

2. Some decisions are easier made if you are accountable only to your self. The decision to try elsewhere will be harder to make for those with a wife and kids. As the family grows one tends to be cautious of their decisions.

The other option is to draw the curtain and find the next exit back to wherever one came from. This though is complicated by point 2 above - too much uncertainty. Unless one made preparations for ithis course of action in advance, most people are likely to skip the option with little thought (if any) the moment it is presented.

 

[Politren]

Very often I am talking with new and old immigrants and the bottom line is that almost all of them are complaining that there is just no opportunities here like 15 years ago and every year is getting harder and harder.
When I read this topic here I see that the problem is the same... no opportunities , no good jobs, almost everybody is in difficulty to meet the ends properly.
I really don't see how that situation will get significantly better in the foreseeable future and if the better times finally comes ---> most of us will be old.
And again I can see that not only the newcomers struggle ---> most of the people are experiencing more and more difficulties Native and Immigrants.
The lines of waiting applicants for the good jobs are long enough... how many years those people have to wait on the line, the problem is that every year that line is getting longer and longer and therefore the salaries are getting low.

I am trying to stay positive, but when I see the reality my expectations are not high, because I see how the situation in this country is getting more complicated.

 

[mazleen]

I think that if you prepare mentally that the first few years is not going to be so straight forward as you want then you should be OK. If you're not ready to face that then DON'T do it. Also maybe prepare to move to where the jobs are, try leasing an apartment for short term leasing just in case you have to move. There is no doubt that discrimination exists especially if you're not white but that doesn't mean that you can't be accepted at all. I do think that people should erase the thought that Canada is all rosy and full of opportunities. It's HARD to start your life over in a country that is very different from the one you left. If you keep that in mind then it should be OK. I did feel scared when I make the decision to migrate even though my case is a bit different because I'm married to a Canadian BUT I can understand that it must be even scarier for someone who is going to bring the entire family to Canada with no family connection at all. So good luck to us all..and make sure you prepare yourself mentally before you decide to do it and you'll be fine.

 

[david1697]

I have first time arrived to US in 1994, over 20 years ago.

Immigration was HARD back then. I mean that's what at least everyone in US I knew was saying. Nothing was easy.
First of all, you really had to WORK. You had to literally WORK, WORK and WORK.
If you had a full time job, you had to be busy every single minute of the 40 hours.
I would say, in many aspects working was harder back in early/mid 90's than it is today:
Morale was high, expectations were high, if ANYTHING someone got at store was of poor quality (including customer service), you would hear people say "Do this right! this is AMERICA!" Those were magic words, manager would run up to you and get things fixed right away.
Studying at the college was difficult, even at community college. Students there were well prepared, teachers highly demanding and overall sense was that you were in for some serious competition.
People, as a rule, struggled for years before settling in. Especially those who had no English or had poor command of English.
Even if they were highly qualified professionals they had to take menial jobs (dish washing, dirt cleaning, fast food) until they learned proper English and could apply for better jobs.

BUT!!!!!!!! Once you tried, everything worked out !!!! Once you had proper English, there were endless opportunities and plenty of white collar jobs.
After couple of years immigrants were becoming choosy and rejecting a lot of job offers, selecting only the best.
Temp agencies would make an appointment, take your application and find you a job, all in one or two days
Jobs used to be advertised on newspapers, there was no internet and no idiotic "key word" schemes to by-pass a robot and get to HR.
You could actually pick up the phone, call to a hiring manager and get a job interview on the spot!
There were no redundant tests and repeated interviews, with calls after 3rd(final ) interview advising that you were great, just not good enough to be selected. No! If you were a good candidate, all it took was ONE interview, and you were told , right there and then "You are hired!"

Three to four bedroom houses used to cost $100,000-$150,000 in a suburb of a megalopolis, which was the best place to be , safe , sound and prestigious.
That means $600-$900 monthly mortgage payment was buying you your own house.

Once you finished your studies in college or specialized school, jobs were abundant! College degree were getting you a $40K job, as a fresh out of college graduate, no long suffering road to find a job, just some hard work and dedication (a month or two after graduation), and you were hired.
Those who went to IT schools, got MS certificates in a matter of few months, were sought after on monster.com and elsewhere.
I know guy, an immigrant with not perfect English, who studied for 4 months and got a $45K offer, with ZERO work experience.
$45K when 3 BR detached family house was costing $100,000 (the same house in the same location today costs over $350,000, so do the math and figure what the buying power of 45K used to be).

Yes, life was hard and difficult, you had to struggle, you had to work your @ @ $ off, but there was a reward if you tried. Things actually WORKED!


Those who come and say "Oh you have to be prepared, as an immigrant, life will be difficult the first few years", I want to say "DUH!"

As if I wasn't an immigrant, as if I don't know what immigration is. No, dear friends, what we have today is not an ordinary immigration experience as it used to be when ECONOMY WAS GOOD. As hard and difficult it was then, it is nothing today like it was then.

Today we are squirrels in the wheel, we are in a sperm competition for an egg, there are hundreds of us for each vacancy out there, we are NOT moving forward, we are right where we stand, no matter how much effort we make and how fast we try to run. We just get exhausted and run out of steam, because there is no forward movement! And we will get old, as other poster said, and not even benefit from any improvement by the time it happens (and IF it happens in observable future, which is a big IF there).

Please, be realistic. there is a serious issue, problem with current state of economy. There is an enormous , abnormal oversupply of labor force and extreme scarcity of white collar jobs, and this has all started with recession. On top of that we have sky-high real estate costs , while wages get depressed (due to oversupply of labor and scarcity of jobs) , and those of us who are still employed are having to do the job of three (because firms, to cut costs, downsized and put more work on the shoulders of fewer workers) , morale is low,quality of product and customer service is low, people are not happy, crime rate is high (I don't care about statistics, if I see in a "good neighborhood" a bulletproof glass at the gas station and seller who is hiding behind it at night, scared of every customer, I know it's not as safe as it used to be and people are afraid for their safety).
Things are not working. Students pay a lot more for school ( colleges used to cost $19K per year, today they charge $40K per year), they graduate with huge loans and are depressed in this market where they spends months to get a job (and this is US I am talking about, which is still better than Canada as far as economy is concerned).

No, this is not ordinary immigration experience. This is an experience of life during some serious recession, folks. And in Canada you can't even get an interview after applying for a job (at least in US you will get one or two interviews per week if you apply for as many jobs, and eventually you will get some job offer, may be not the best, but something you can hang on to until you find a better one, and you don't have to drive taxis or flip burgers if you have white collar qualifications and good command of English).

This is not hard, this is just not working. Two different things, IMHO.