Unfair treatment to online applicants. Is there anything we can do?

[firstax]

Lifting from ATIP from IRCC:

"Most importantly, this will also allow the Citizenship Program to concentrate on processing the aging paper inventory while building digital processing capacity and gradually transitioning to an electronic inventory. Not focusing on eliminating the paper inventory first and prioritizing processing of new e-apps would result in a large stagnant paper inventory with processing times reaching at least four years, if not longer."

https://www.docdroid.net/P3J2BG6/atip-eapp-pdf#page=3

So why are they still accepting new Paper applications. They will never exhaust their paper inventory now that people know what's really going on. I guess Online applicants have to wait a few years

 

[mbaleine]

So why are they still accepting new Paper applications. They will never exhaust their paper inventory now that people know what's really going on. I guess Online applicants have to wait a few years

EXACTLY. I sure hope someone at IRCC realizes this. Though I suppose they'd be reluctant to stop accepting paper altogether otherwise there'd be people accusing them of not providing accessible government service ("some of us underprivileged populations don't have the luxury of computer/Internet access to apply online" yada yada yada)

 

[mbaleine]

Apparently there's some sort of new backlog tracker, according to which the "projected" backlog % for citizenship applications is supposed to drop to ~25% by Dec'22 (but gawd knows how "backlog" is being defined)

https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/corporate/mandate/stronger-immigration-system.html

 

[armoured]

In reality, being a Canadian PR is like being a prisoner on parole for many of us with geographic restrictions. We have a few different classes of PRs, all of whom face different restrictions, but restrictions nonetheless that can severely damage their quality of life.

Most of these claims you make are simply untrue, or GREATLY exaggerated.

Let's start from the bottom, the refugees. They aren't even allowed to visit their home countries or even keep or renew their home country passports.

Partially true but remember: refugees were admitted on the basis of fearing for their lives in their home countries. So yeah, the law (and UN refugee conventions) do specify that one possible repercussion of returning to the protection of that country is basically admitting you are not a refugee. But yes, it's true that in being provided refugee status, you have less ability to travel.

(That said I do support that processing all apps more quickly is important, and refugees are a good example why it matters - not so they can 'travel home' per se but enjoy all benefits of citzienship.

Next from the bottom are PNP PRs, who must stay in their province of nomination as long as they are PRs. This is similar to the strict geographic restrictions placed on parolees. If these PNP nominees continue to like their province of nomination, that's all well and good, but sometimes the province does not work out and they really need to move to keep their sanity.

False. There's no specific answer on how long they must remain in those provinces, but basically any PR who remains in the province they were nominated to for a year is perfectly fine. (Show me a case where that's not true, please - I'm not an expert but not aware of any). Certainly no reason theh would need to stay in that province until they get citizenship.

On a similar level are spousal sponsorship PRs, who must stay married to their spouses. If the marriage stays good, then all is great, but if there are bad marital problems if not abuse, that can put the PR in a pretty miserable situation while they wait indefinitely for citizenship.

Outright bullshit. Couples divorce and leave each other all the time after arriving. The rare exceptions of problems are where there is evidence that the original application was marital fraud. There is absolutely no reason a PR in an abusive situation should remain there because of PR status. They can move to anywhere in Canada with zero implications for their status, and without their spouse.

Finally, the FSW EE PRs have the most rights, so they are likely the ones to say what's the big deal of citizenship being delayed, since they can live anywhere except Quebec. But if they happen to want to try out Quebec, they still have to wait for citizenship. And I have to point out the irony of the government strongly urging all immigrants to become proficient in French and making a stink when certain government officials or company leaders don't speak French, but not allowing any PR except those who specifically immigrated to Quebec to live there.

Nonsense. After becoming a PR, they can move to Quebec too if they wish.

 

[Bob1321]

Anybody here know someone who is working at IRCC? Maybe someone can give us answer instead of speculate.

 

[trumprefugee]

Most of these claims you make are simply untrue, or GREATLY exaggerated.



Partially true but remember: refugees were admitted on the basis of fearing for their lives in their home countries. So yeah, the law (and UN refugee conventions) do specify that one possible repercussion of returning to the protection of that country is basically admitting you are not a refugee. But yes, it's true that in being provided refugee status, you have less ability to travel.

I think the definition of "availing yourself of your country's protection" is quite unfair in that it includes simply using the country's passport. As for refugees admitted on the basis of fearing for their lives in their home countries, well, it's not necessarily fearing death but also persecution. There are a number of reasons why a refugee would fear for their lives or safety if they were living in their home countries but still be able to reasonably visit temporarily, like being able to escape the notice of whoever is persecuting them during a short term visit versus being more easily spied on and found if they were still living there. Also, they could have fled a war that has since ended, but given the long processing times, this could be 10+ years later and they are well settled in Canada and would not be able to adapt to returning permanently to their home countries (think particularly of kids who came at a relatively young age)

False. There's no specific answer on how long they must remain in those provinces, but basically any PR who remains in the province they were nominated to for a year is perfectly fine. (Show me a case where that's not true, please - I'm not an expert but not aware of any). Certainly no reason theh would need to stay in that province until they get citizenship.

The problem is the lack of any kind of official guidance of how long they must remain in the province of nomination. But to go back to the wording in the official documents, when you accept a nomination, you are "indicating to both IRCC and that provincial or territorial jurisdiction that you are intending to reside in that province or territory and that you will comply with other related program requirements." "program requirements" being the intent to settle in the province. Intentions can and do change after one has moved and lived in the province for a while, but if questioned, the burden is on the PR to prove intent. And how long do the program requirements last? There is no mention of length of time, so it follows that these requirements apply as long as one is a PR.

I do know some people who moved from their province of nomination after 2+ years and were questioned in citizenship interviews for having moved. If questioned, one needs to have an excuse that IRCC considers valid, such as inability to find a job in-province despite a fair amount of effort. You can't just move because of personal preferences.

And yes, there are PNP folks who move before citizenship and don't get in trouble for it. That does not mean that it is okay to move, just as some refugees do manage to keep their PRs and get citizenship despite a visit or two back home. The government does not enforce the rules in every situation, and also whether an excuse for breaking the rules is valid can be a subjective matter. But if you want to be safe and not risk being one of those who do get in trouble, you need to follow the rules.

Outright bullshit. Couples divorce and leave each other all the time after arriving. The rare exceptions of problems are where there is evidence that the original application was marital fraud. There is absolutely no reason a PR in an abusive situation should remain there because of PR status. They can move to anywhere in Canada with zero implications for their status, and without their spouse.

Divorcing before citizenship would certainly raise questions, and whether reasons for divorcing are valid and what constitutes abuse can be subjective. Again, if questioned, the burden is on the PR to prove that no marriage fraud existed. And just because some people can divorce before citizenship and not face any negative consequences does not mean that doing so is not risky.

Nonsense. After becoming a PR, they can move to Quebec too if they wish.

FSW EE immigrants applied on the condition of intending to reside outside of Quebec, similar to PNP folks who applied on the condition of intending to reside in their province of nomination. Enforcement of the rule to reside outside of Quebec does seem to be enforced less often than the PNP requirements to stay in province, probably because it is less common for FSW folks to want to move to Quebec, and those who do, already have good French proficiency and integrate well enough not to draw attention. Still, the rules are the rules, and if you break them, you are taking risks, if not of rejection of citizenship application and/or revocation of PR status, then of at least more scrutiny and delays in your application.

An analogy is how most people who commit crimes or infractions do not get caught. Most people have driven above speed limits at times, but most of the time, they were not caught. Others have committed petty theft and not gotten caught. But just because most people don't get caught, or you haven't gotten caught yet, does not mean you aren't breaking rules or that you will never get caught.

 

[firstax]

Anybody here know someone who is working at IRCC? Maybe someone can give us answer instead of speculate.

IRCC staff would never tell you the reason behind their actions. You can make a ATIM/GCMS request about it. An applicant here asked about the online applications and in IRCC's response they requested for 3 months to give an answer and the have been silent ever since. MP's don't know anything or care enough to assist us. Maybe if someone knows any journalist or media houses they can get them to ask IRCC directly. IRCC seem to respond to media enquiries fairly quickly.

 

[Dalboy1980]

Thanks for your post, by the way do you think it is fair that people applied in Feb 2022 by paper already did their oath ? Also kids attending schools in person from last year while IRCC still working from home because they may got Covid 19 ?

Can I ask during my reply did I at any point mention 2022 applicants? I think you'll find the answer is 'no,' I've zero idea about paper applicants being processed ahead of online applicants for 2022 but the fact that you haven't been waiting since 2018, 2019 or 2020....you should count your blessings. As for working from home, at the end of the day more flexibility should be given where possible and if forms can we worked through then I'm all for it....yes it may lead to some delays but a work life balance is important....they can only sit around doing nothing for so long before it'll get picked up so yeah it doesn't matter i.e. working from home

 

[Dalboy1980]

Slow clap to this gentleman...

Why because he spoke sense and gives a wealth more of information than anyone else does? Ridiculous response

 

[Varunaimar]

Why because he spoke sense and gives a wealth more of information than anyone else does? Ridiculous response

I liked his detailed response and that was my reaction to it. Not sure why you would call it ridiculous...

 

[glennchu]

September 2019 - Paper application still waiting for the process to be completed. People who applied in 2022 regardless Paper or Online should take a chill pill. LOL

 

[Bob1321]

September 2019 - Paper application still waiting for the process to be completed. People who applied in 2022 regardless Paper or Online should take a chill pill. LOL

Its a big problem if IRCC can't order the application by date. But i'm not surprise of the bureaucracy here...

 

[wink]

September 2019 - Paper application still waiting for the process to be completed. People who applied in 2022 regardless Paper or Online should take a chill pill. LOL

What else one can do? But that's not what being discussed...
What is being discussed is why first come first serve could not be done...

 

[Dreamlad]

IRCC staff would never tell you the reason behind their actions. You can make a ATIM/GCMS request about it. An applicant here asked about the online applications and in IRCC's response they requested for 3 months to give an answer and the have been silent ever since. MP's don't know anything or care enough to assist us. Maybe if someone knows any journalist or media houses they can get them to ask IRCC directly. IRCC seem to respond to media enquiries fairly quickly.

Same. My notes never came. It's been 3+ months.

 

[glennchu]

What else one can do? But that's not what being discussed...

it has been discussed numerous times how unfair their process is. It is like communism - you cannot question and they do not feel like we deserve an answer or any transparency. Worst System Ever.