TRV rejected for retired parents

[Sarjaria84]

Hello,

If someone can please help and guide on how to go about after the rejection.

Below is the situation -
I had applied for my parents' visitor visa on 23 May 2023 which was rejected on 15 June 2023 (biometrics - 12 June 2023). Below were the reasons,
- I am refusing your application because you have not established that you will leave Canada, based on the following factors:
• Your assets and financial situation are insufficient to support the stated purpose of travel for yourself (and any accompanying family member(s), if applicable).
• The purpose of your visit to Canada is not consistent with a temporary stay given the details you have provided in your application.

Both of my parents' are retired, father 4 years ago and mother last year, and are earning pensions, which I had also stated in the 'Purpose of Travel' letter. The reason for travel was stated as 'visiting for attending convocation ceremony to be held in November 2023'. I had also submitted the invitation letter from the college for the convocation ceremony. The total visit length stated was for 30 days, including sightseeing in Montreal and staying with us at our house in Montreal.

Regarding the finances, we had shown my parents' joint account and my mother's account. The total amount shown was around INR 3.5 lacs in the Savings Account plus more than CAD 60K was shown in the FDs and a bank letter was also submitted which stated that 'the entire FD amount can be unconditionally taken out anytime'.

Regarding the ties to India, we had stated that my parents live with my grand parents, both of whom are above 80 years of age, and that they need help with their day to day living. Thus, they will have to go back to take care of them. For the 30 day period a relative living in the same city has agreed to take care of the grand parents.

The house where we live is in the name of the grand father and both of my parents do not have any property in their name. They have some mutual fund investments and around INR 4.5 lakh invested in the share market in India.

My current situation is that I am not working (on work permit after study permit) and neither is my wife (on maternity leave since 05 June 2023). We did not state anything regarding the pregnancy in the application , as I had read and heard that pregnancy issue generally leads to rejection.
We both have RAMQ and have around 16K savings in our accounts here. We had not submitted our account statements with the visitor visa application though, as the idea was that my parents have more than enough money in their Saving Account + FDs to take care of their travel.

I will be re applying for their Visitor Visa and needed help on how to tackle the points raised by the Visa Officer regarding 'ties back to India', 'funds issue' and 'purpose of visit'. Isn't Convocation Ceremony a good Purpose of Visit? I have applied for GCMS notes on the next day of rejection and am yet to receive them. However, I cannot wait for the notes to apply.

Thank you for all your help!

 

[BA101]

Hello,

If someone can please help and guide on how to go about after the rejection.

Below is the situation -
I had applied for my parents' visitor visa on 23 May 2023 which was rejected on 15 June 2023 (biometrics - 12 June 2023). Below were the reasons,
- I am refusing your application because you have not established that you will leave Canada, based on the following factors:
• Your assets and financial situation are insufficient to support the stated purpose of travel for yourself (and any accompanying family member(s), if applicable). The funds you have shown look good. Did you also show their Pension, Bank Statements showing monthly inflow of cash from Pension? Just the FD alone with a Bank letter may not always work.
• The purpose of your visit to Canada is not consistent with a temporary stay given the details you have provided in your application. While this is not mandatory, did you show return tickets? Did you attach any site seeing trip tickets? What about health insurance - Did you take any for the duration of stay?

Both of my parents' are retired, father 4 years ago and mother last year, and are earning pensions, which I had also stated in the 'Purpose of Travel' letter. The reason for travel was stated as 'visiting for attending convocation ceremony to be held in November 2023'. I had also submitted the invitation letter from the college for the convocation ceremony. The total visit length stated was for 30 days, including sightseeing in Montreal and staying with us at our house in Montreal.

Regarding the finances, we had shown my parents' joint account and my mother's account. The total amount shown was around INR 3.5 lacs in the Savings Account plus more than CAD 60K was shown in the FDs and a bank letter was also submitted which stated that 'the entire FD amount can be unconditionally taken out anytime'.

Regarding the ties to India, we had stated that my parents live with my grand parents, both of whom are above 80 years of age, and that they need help with their day to day living. Thus, they will have to go back to take care of them. For the 30 day period a relative living in the same city has agreed to take care of the grand parents.

The house where we live is in the name of the grand father and both of my parents do not have any property in their name. They have some mutual fund investments and around INR 4.5 lakh invested in the share market in India.

My current situation is that I am not working (on work permit after study permit) and neither is my wife (on maternity leave since 05 June 2023). We did not state anything regarding the pregnancy in the application , as I had read and heard that pregnancy issue generally leads to rejection.Well people have been refused in the past when they applied to come help during maternity. However in your case, it appears that you did not demonstrate adequately that they will indeed leave in a month. Although the Convocation invitation is good , I am not sure if the case processing officer felt convinced.
We both have RAMQ and have around 16K savings in our accounts here. We had not submitted our account statements with the visitor visa application though, as the idea was that my parents have more than enough money in their Saving Account + FDs to take care of their travel.

I will be re applying for their Visitor Visa and needed help on how to tackle the points raised by the Visa Officer regarding 'ties back to India', 'funds issue' and 'purpose of visit'. Isn't Convocation Ceremony a good Purpose of Visit? I have applied for GCMS notes on the next day of rejection and am yet to receive them. However, I cannot wait for the notes to apply. Notes can take 2 months to arrive as well in some cases. If you are applying again, then make sure you address their reasons of refusal adequately. Good Luck on the next application

Thank you for all your help!

 

[canuck78]

Hello,

If someone can please help and guide on how to go about after the rejection.

Below is the situation -
I had applied for my parents' visitor visa on 23 May 2023 which was rejected on 15 June 2023 (biometrics - 12 June 2023). Below were the reasons,
- I am refusing your application because you have not established that you will leave Canada, based on the following factors:
• Your assets and financial situation are insufficient to support the stated purpose of travel for yourself (and any accompanying family member(s), if applicable).
• The purpose of your visit to Canada is not consistent with a temporary stay given the details you have provided in your application.

Both of my parents' are retired, father 4 years ago and mother last year, and are earning pensions, which I had also stated in the 'Purpose of Travel' letter. The reason for travel was stated as 'visiting for attending convocation ceremony to be held in November 2023'. I had also submitted the invitation letter from the college for the convocation ceremony. The total visit length stated was for 30 days, including sightseeing in Montreal and staying with us at our house in Montreal.

Regarding the finances, we had shown my parents' joint account and my mother's account. The total amount shown was around INR 3.5 lacs in the Savings Account plus more than CAD 60K was shown in the FDs and a bank letter was also submitted which stated that 'the entire FD amount can be unconditionally taken out anytime'.

Regarding the ties to India, we had stated that my parents live with my grand parents, both of whom are above 80 years of age, and that they need help with their day to day living. Thus, they will have to go back to take care of them. For the 30 day period a relative living in the same city has agreed to take care of the grand parents.

The house where we live is in the name of the grand father and both of my parents do not have any property in their name. They have some mutual fund investments and around INR 4.5 lakh invested in the share market in India.

My current situation is that I am not working (on work permit after study permit) and neither is my wife (on maternity leave since 05 June 2023). We did not state anything regarding the pregnancy in the application , as I had read and heard that pregnancy issue generally leads to rejection.
We both have RAMQ and have around 16K savings in our accounts here. We had not submitted our account statements with the visitor visa application though, as the idea was that my parents have more than enough money in their Saving Account + FDs to take care of their travel.

I will be re applying for their Visitor Visa and needed help on how to tackle the points raised by the Visa Officer regarding 'ties back to India', 'funds issue' and 'purpose of visit'. Isn't Convocation Ceremony a good Purpose of Visit? I have applied for GCMS notes on the next day of rejection and am yet to receive them. However, I cannot wait for the notes to apply.

Thank you for all your help!

First issue is the FDs are not viewed as accessible savings. How much funds do they have in liquids savings? The other big issue is that they hav minimal ties to their home country. Caring for your grandparents is helpful but the job could be taken over by another relative like it is being done while they are away for 30 days. They have no property in their name. Do they have to be in the country every year to receive their pension? That would be a tie. Do you have any siblings and where do they live? Do you have a job lined up? The fact that you and your spouse are not employed doesn’t look good on paper. Have your parents travelled internationally before especially to countries like the US, UK, Australia, etc.?

 

[Sarjaria84]

Thank you for your reply!

1. I stated in my letter that they receive pension from Government and also submitted the bank statement for my mother which receives monthly pension. Could not do so for my father, as he was not receiving pension for past few months because he couldn't provide the 'Life Certificate' in time. That is resolved now.

2. No plane tickets or sight seeing tickets and no medical insurance. Didn't think that these would be required now for a trip which is around 5-6 months away.

3. I did not mention about the pregnancy at all in their application. In my view a 30 day period with no itinerary apart from attending convocation ceremony made it weak reasoning.

4. Yes, I am planning to reapply with few additional documents such as Pension Order for my parents, their past 3 years' ITR, lease agreement for my apartment here in Montreal, and Aadhar card and driving license that shows that my parents live with the grandparents at the same address. I will also be reducing the stay period here to 15 days and will be creating a detailed Itinerary around the convocation ceremony.

Below is a part of 'Purpose of Travel' letter submitted by one of my friends for his retired parents' visa application which was approved. The stay period was 3 weeks there. I guess it depends on the VO too.

"
We are a law-abiding citizen with strong ties to our home country. We have our parents and daughter,
<invitee’s sibling name>, staying in India, hence, we have no intentions of overstaying our visa in
Canada. We have also provided ample evidence of our financial capability (in the funds document) to
cover all the expenses incurred during our stay in Canada."

Thank you for your wishes!

 

[canuck78]

Thank you for your reply!

1. I stated in my letter that they receive pension from Government and also submitted the bank statement for my mother which receives monthly pension. Could not do so for my father, as he was not receiving pension for past few months because he couldn't provide the 'Life Certificate' in time. That is resolved now.

2. No plane tickets or sight seeing tickets and no medical insurance. Didn't think that these would be required now for a trip which is around 5-6 months away.

3. I did not mention about the pregnancy at all in their application. In my view a 30 day period with no itinerary apart from attending convocation ceremony made it weak reasoning.

4. Yes, I am planning to reapply with few additional documents such as Pension Order for my parents, their past 3 years' ITR, lease agreement for my apartment here in Montreal, and Aadhar card and driving license that shows that my parents live with the grandparents at the same address. I will also be reducing the stay period here to 15 days and will be creating a detailed Itinerary around the convocation ceremony.

Below is a part of 'Purpose of Travel' letter submitted by one of my friends for his retired parents' visa application which was approved. The stay period was 3 weeks there. I guess it depends on the VO too.

"
We are a law-abiding citizen with strong ties to our home country. We have our parents and daughter,
<invitee’s sibling name>, staying in India, hence, we have no intentions of overstaying our visa in
Canada. We have also provided ample evidence of our financial capability (in the funds document) to
cover all the expenses incurred during our stay in Canada."

Thank you for your wishes!

1. In terms of ties if your parents are required to be in their home country for a certain period of time or once a year for example in order to receive their pension that would create some proof of why they will return home. If they do need to be in their home country to receive their pension I would specify this as a reason why they will be returning home after they visit you in Canada. When they receive their pension does it go directory into FDs. Do they have some liquid savings that are not locked into FDs, stocks, funds, etc. The liquid savings should be highlighted in addition to other savings.
2.Do not purchase any plane tickets in advance. IRCC actually states that you should only purchase flights and other bookings once you have approved TRVs.
3. A more detailed itinerary is a good idea although visiting family without having plans to visit all the tourist sites is also fine.
4 not sure how your lease will impact their TRV application. You need to find more reasons why they will not be remaining in Canada. Do they have upcoming commitments in their home country. Close family wedding for example. Are your grandparents scheduled to have surgery for example. Do you have siblings and where do they live? Other close family in Canada? Do your grandparents have other children that live in their home country? Have your parents ever attempted to immigrate to Canada or to another country?

 

[Sarjaria84]

1. In terms of ties if your parents are required to be in their home country for a certain period of time or once a year for example in order to receive their pension that would create some proof of why they will return home. If they do need to be in their home country to receive their pension I would specify this as a reason why they will be returning home after they visit you in Canada. When they receive their pension does it go directory into FDs. Do they have some liquid savings that are not locked into FDs, stocks, funds, etc. The liquid savings should be highlighted in addition to other savings.

Yes, the parents receive pension and I will be explicitly mentioning it now that they need to be in India once a year to continue receiving it. They have around INR 4.5-5 lac liquid funds apart from funds in FDs and other investments.

2.Do not purchase any plane tickets in advance. IRCC actually states that you should only purchase flights and other bookings once you have approved TRVs.

yes, I have no plans of that.

3. A more detailed itinerary is a good idea although visiting family without having plans to visit all the tourist sites is also fine.

Just a day to day plan. I have understood after talking to some people whose parents' visas were approved, itinerary was a common theme.

4 not sure how your lease will impact their TRV application. You need to find more reasons why they will not be remaining in Canada. Do they have upcoming commitments in their home country. Close family wedding for example. Are your grandparents scheduled to have surgery for example. Do you have siblings and where do they live? Other close family in Canada? Do your grandparents have other children that live in their home country? Have your parents ever attempted to immigrate to Canada or to another country?

Lease just to show that the Montreal address is legit. I have a younger brother, married and 32 years of age, but he lives in another city. However, in our home city itself there are LOT of close relatives and my father is the only child. I also wanted to ask how can I show that my father is the only child? I can only think of Ration Card as a document which can be used for this, as it contains the name of all the members in the family. An affidavit for this will work? Mother didn't even had a passport until few months ago and they never had a plan to travel outside India before.

 

[tommy_2k23]

1. Either Father or Mother should apply alone. This way your home tie will be more stronger. Sorry, thats how it goes.

2. For attending convocation you do not need 30 days (backdoors your parents are doing a maid job or something, a visa officer may detect it).
Shorten your stay to 2 weeks.

3. 3.5 lac is peanuts considering air tickets to and from canada on top of that meals and lodging.

4. Usually for a 7 day week trip, an alone person must show minimum 5000 CAD. Canada is expensive. For two persons more money is needed.

5. Since you are going to change the conditions, write a cover travel letter and explain why you are providing new evidence (regarding mother/father is traveling or two weeks etc) by addressing previous refusal reasons.

Just do the math.

 

[Sarjaria84]

We did not show balances in couple of more bank accounts and the total liquid available now is around INR 8.5 Lacs. Plus, an FD is maturing in September 2023 and we will submit an application to the bank to not renew that FD and to deposit in the account, as that money will be needed to cover the costs for the planned travel to Canada in November 2023. A copy of this letter signed and sealed by the bank to be submitted along with the Visa application. Good idea?

I also wanted to ask that in the previous application my mother was the primary applicant as the joint bank account has her name first and so the bank letter can be made only in her name. But this time along I am thinking of my father to be the primary applicant, as he is the only child of the grandparents and that will help to show strong ties back home. My mother can submit an affidavit stating that my father can use the money for the costs related to the trip. Will that be ok?

Also, I am planning to submit an affidavit from my grandparents that my father is their only child. Because I cannot think of any other document which can prove this, may be apart from Ration Card but that itself is not a document that can be used as a proof. Any other document that can used to show this?

Thanks everyone for their comments!

Hello,

If someone can please help and guide on how to go about after the rejection.

Below is the situation -
I had applied for my parents' visitor visa on 23 May 2023 which was rejected on 15 June 2023 (biometrics - 12 June 2023). Below were the reasons,
- I am refusing your application because you have not established that you will leave Canada, based on the following factors:
• Your assets and financial situation are insufficient to support the stated purpose of travel for yourself (and any accompanying family member(s), if applicable).
• The purpose of your visit to Canada is not consistent with a temporary stay given the details you have provided in your application.

Both of my parents' are retired, father 4 years ago and mother last year, and are earning pensions, which I had also stated in the 'Purpose of Travel' letter. The reason for travel was stated as 'visiting for attending convocation ceremony to be held in November 2023'. I had also submitted the invitation letter from the college for the convocation ceremony. The total visit length stated was for 30 days, including sightseeing in Montreal and staying with us at our house in Montreal.

Regarding the finances, we had shown my parents' joint account and my mother's account. The total amount shown was around INR 3.5 lacs in the Savings Account plus more than CAD 60K was shown in the FDs and a bank letter was also submitted which stated that 'the entire FD amount can be unconditionally taken out anytime'.

Regarding the ties to India, we had stated that my parents live with my grand parents, both of whom are above 80 years of age, and that they need help with their day to day living. Thus, they will have to go back to take care of them. For the 30 day period a relative living in the same city has agreed to take care of the grand parents.

The house where we live is in the name of the grand father and both of my parents do not have any property in their name. They have some mutual fund investments and around INR 4.5 lakh invested in the share market in India.

My current situation is that I am not working (on work permit after study permit) and neither is my wife (on maternity leave since 05 June 2023). We did not state anything regarding the pregnancy in the application , as I had read and heard that pregnancy issue generally leads to rejection.
We both have RAMQ and have around 16K savings in our accounts here. We had not submitted our account statements with the visitor visa application though, as the idea was that my parents have more than enough money in their Saving Account + FDs to take care of their travel.

I will be re applying for their Visitor Visa and needed help on how to tackle the points raised by the Visa Officer regarding 'ties back to India', 'funds issue' and 'purpose of visit'. Isn't Convocation Ceremony a good Purpose of Visit? I have applied for GCMS notes on the next day of rejection and am yet to receive them. However, I cannot wait for the notes to apply.

Thank you for all your help!

@Bryanna

 

[beeba-bacha]

Please do the following Things in Next attempt.

FDs will not consider as POF.

Make visit only for 2 weeks in documents.
Do not attached air ticket, visa officer also knows that now Airlines do not book ticket without payment even for a day.

Attached office Pension letter, issued at the time of granting for pension.
your Canadian Bank statement , must get it from branch. A proof for expenses that you will incurred during parents staying in Canada.
Your parents 6 months bank statement that shows monthly Pension amount.
Home country ties - Must write long statements which say your parents intention to leave Canada. Like they are old cant able to tolerate harsh winter of canada, Parents having Extended family members, parents having siblings in India. etc etc
For getting monthly pension from account, they must physically appear in bank branch for life certificate verification. A govt. mandatory requirement for pension withdrawal, like etct etc

Further, You need to find more reasons why they will not be remaining in Canada

Letter of invitation must have complete details of yourself and your parents.

 

[Sarjaria84]

Hello,

I received the GCMS notes today. Attached is the excerpt from it which states the VO notes for the reason for refusal. As per my understanding it boiled down to the total funds that were showed in the parents' accounts. Please let me know what do you all think. It would be really helpful.
We had filled in CAD 6,000 in the IMM5257e form's "Funds available for my stay (CAD) for both of my parents, meaning CAD 12,000 in total. Should I have filled CAD 10,000 for each of them? Will INR 8.5 Lacs which convert to roughly around CAD 13,500 be enough to show along with the bank letter that one of the FDs worth INR 6.3 Lacs will be maturing in Sep 2023 and will be available in the accounts before proposed travel in November 2023.

I am currently not working and my wife is on maternity leave.

Thank you for your help!

 

[Naturgrl]

Hello,

I received the GCMS notes today. Attached is the excerpt from it which states the VO notes for the reason for refusal. As per my understanding it boiled down to the total funds that were showed in the parents' accounts. Please let me know what do you all think. It would be really helpful.
We had filled in CAD 6,000 in the IMM5257e form's "Funds available for my stay (CAD) for both of my parents, meaning CAD 12,000 in total. Should I have filled CAD 10,000 for each of them? Will INR 8.5 Lacs which convert to roughly around CAD 13,500 be enough to show along with the bank letter that one of the FDs worth INR 6.3 Lacs will be maturing in Sep 2023 and will be available in the accounts before proposed travel in November 2023.

I am currently not working and my wife is on maternity leave.

Thank you for your help!

If FDs are maturing in September then maybe wait and apply then. This will show enough funds. Provide a detailed itinerary for their visit and include costs of visit with airfare, food, spending money etc. to show that they can afford theirr visit.

 

[Sarjaria84]

If FDs are maturing in September then maybe wait and apply then. This will show enough funds. Provide a detailed itinerary for their visit and include costs of visit with airfare, food, spending money etc. to show that they can afford theirr visit.

Cannot wait till then because expected due date of the baby is First week of August.
One of my class mate here who had almost a similar scenario, retired parents, showed around INR 4.5 Lacs in bank, some amount in post office and some in FDs. Approved in first application.
What if my younger brother 'gifts' INR 3-4 lacs to my parents. A notarized affidavit will suffice or is there any specific format?

We too have around CAD 15,000 in bank in Canada. But, as I mentioned before I am not working now. I was when we applied for the visa application. The stay period in the new application will be 15 days instead of previous 30 days.

Thanks!

 

[Naturgrl]

Cannot wait till then because expected due date of the baby is First week of August.
One of my class mate here who had almost a similar scenario, retired parents, showed around INR 4.5 Lacs in bank, some amount in post office and some in FDs. Approved in first application.
What if my younger brother 'gifts' INR 3-4 lacs to my parents. A notarized affidavit will suffice or is there any specific format?

We too have around CAD 15,000 in bank in Canada. But, as I mentioned before I am not working now. I was when we applied for the visa application. The stay period in the new application will be 15 days instead of previous 30 days.

Thanks!

Your brother certainly can do a gift deed that is notarized. Google Gift Deed Canada format. Still need to address other reasons for refusal which is proving that it is not a short stay - family (children under 22), job letters with approved leave, pensions, investments, properties etc. Have detailed itinerary.

 

[Sarjaria84]

We did not show balances in couple of more bank accounts and the total liquid available now is around INR 8.5 Lacs. Plus, an FD is maturing in September 2023 and we will submit an application to the bank to not renew that FD and to deposit in the account, as that money will be needed to cover the costs for the planned travel to Canada in November 2023. A copy of this letter signed and sealed by the bank to be submitted along with the Visa application. Good idea?

I also wanted to ask that in the previous application my mother was the primary applicant as the joint bank account has her name first and so the bank letter can be made only in her name. But this time along I am thinking of my father to be the primary applicant, as he is the only child of the grandparents and that will help to show strong ties back home. My mother can submit an affidavit stating that my father can use the money for the costs related to the trip. Will that be ok?

Also, I am planning to submit an affidavit from my grandparents that my father is their only child. Because I cannot think of any other document which can prove this, may be apart from Ration Card but that itself is not a document that can be used as a proof. Any other document that can used to show this?

Thanks everyone for their comments!

@Bryanna

@beeba-bacha @Naturgrl @canuck78 @BA101

Can you please also share your thoughts on the above. Is it needed in light of the reasons of refusal stated in the GCMS notes? Should I change the primary applicant to my father instead of my mother?

Thank you!

 

[Naturgrl]

@beeba-bacha @Naturgrl @canuck78 @BA101

Can you please also share your thoughts on the above. Is it needed in light of the reasons of refusal stated in the GCMS notes? Should I change the primary applicant to my father instead of my mother?

Thank you!

You can but his elderly parents are not ties. They are not his dependants and vice versa. Do the grandparents live with them? Do they require 24/7 care? If so provide doctor’s note that they require care, proof your parents live with them, doctors appointment that must come back for, documentation of who is caring for them while he is in Canada etc. Need to show what care your father provides and not just a letter but proof.