TRV refusal help

[Greasewheel]

Hello. I have been vacationing in SE Asia for 4 or 5 months each year since my retirement 6 1/2 years ago. My Thai girlfriend of 4 years has been rejected entry the last 2 years even though we meet or exceed all criteria set forth by IC. The first request was for 3 months. The 2nd (last year)was for 1 month. I should mention that I am 61 and my girlfriend is 44. Agents that I have used in Bangkok to compile and present our documents are blown away that such a strong request is being denied. I can expound on the merits of our case if needed but I can assure you that IMHO it is iron clad when considering IC criteria. I feel we're the victim of an overzealous heavy-handed official in Bangkok. Every denial is costly on a monetary level as well as emotional. I don't know what I can do to make an already strong case stronger. Short of getting into expensive legal help, what options do I have? Thank you for any forthcoming advice.

 

[Jalex23]

Hello. I have been vacationing in SE Asia for 4 or 5 months each year since my retirement 6 1/2 years ago. My Thai girlfriend of 4 years has been rejected entry the last 2 years even though we meet or exceed all criteria set forth by IC. The first request was for 3 months. The 2nd (last year)was for 1 month. I should mention that I am 61 and my girlfriend is 44. Agents that I have used in Bangkok to compile and present our documents are blown away that such a strong request is being denied. I can expound on the merits of our case if needed but I can assure you that IMHO it is iron clad when considering IC criteria. I feel we're the victim of an overzealous heavy-handed official in Bangkok. Every denial is costly on a monetary level as well as emotional. I don't know what I can do to make an already strong case stronger. Short of getting into expensive legal help, what options do I have? Thank you for any forthcoming advice.

For starters I do not see your case as strong. Asking for a three month visit is most likely going to result in a refusal, asking then for 1 month will then have high probabilities of refusal.

Said that... what documents she submit? Please give detail on the "ties to homecountry" and "proof of financial support" in cases like yours it is usually a weak set of submitted documents the main cause of refusal (and a request for such a long time like 3 months).

 

[Greasewheel]

Thank you for your reply. We were informed that the 3 month request was excessive. That is why the following year we pared that to 1 month. I should mention that my girlfriend is at a decided advantage for an extended stay. For 20 years she has run a successful business (hair and nail salon) at the same location in Bangkok. In the building she leases for her business are also 4 rooms that she sublets that pay for 50% of her lease. Her older sister and her sister's husband rent one of these rooms which allow her easy leave from her business for extended periods of time. This was explained to IC.
When I said we had a "strong case" I meant that all IC criteria was met or exceeded. All documentation asked for was supplied.
These were as much as I can recall, My letter of request( I own my own home and could show enough assets to easily provide for her stay to a factor of 100s) Her Family book, her bank statements going back more than was necessary, proof of her business (here their may have been a problem. She was able to show her business number or tax number but was unable to obtain something from the owner of the building that would have been better. It seems it would be better for him financially to not have authorities know about the status of the building.) explanation of her ties to her country, hundreds of photos showing our history together, Visa stamps in both our passports showing coincidental travel to neighboring countries. Off the top of my head this is what I can remember. All requested documentation was provided and presented by agents in a very professional manner.
Again thank you for taking the time to respond.

 

[Greasewheel]

Sorry I see I didn't fully respond to you. Her ties to her country are her ongoing business, her family, title to a parcel of land in her home province of fairly significant value~800,000 baht. Her financial situation was in excess of 400,000 baht (15,000-16,000 CDN) in the bank upon the first request. Before we submitted our 2nd application her financial situation was lessened by a 200,000 baht loan to a sister to build a home. She is paying this loan back at a pace of about 10,000 baht/month. This loan was explained and shown in her bank statements. Thanks again.

 

[yesam2017]

Hello. I have been vacationing in SE Asia for 4 or 5 months each year since my retirement 6 1/2 years ago. My Thai girlfriend of 4 years has been rejected entry the last 2 years even though we meet or exceed all criteria set forth by IC. The first request was for 3 months. The 2nd (last year)was for 1 month. I should mention that I am 61 and my girlfriend is 44. Agents that I have used in Bangkok to compile and present our documents are blown away that such a strong request is being denied. I can expound on the merits of our case if needed but I can assure you that IMHO it is iron clad when considering IC criteria. I feel we're the victim of an overzealous heavy-handed official in Bangkok. Every denial is costly on a monetary level as well as emotional. I don't know what I can do to make an already strong case stronger. Short of getting into expensive legal help, what options do I have? Thank you for any forthcoming advice.

What was reason given for refusal

 

[Greasewheel]

They were not satisfied that she would leave Canada after her stay because of her "current employment situation." which is ridiculous. She has had her business for almost 20 years. I can only surmise that this had something to do with the owner of her building refusing her the document I mentioned. I can only surmise because they do not expound upon their decision, nor will they meet with you. They just take the $120 visa fee and say thank you very much. Would it be a help to have some of her clients vouch for her in some fashion? Also she was denied because of her "personal assets and financial status" which again seems ridiculous. Yes her bank account was trending down but her assets are approaching 1,000,000 baht. And how much money does she require to stay in my home for a month? It's been quite frustrating. Thanks for your interest.

 

[Buletruck]

Just my perspective, but having mentioned her sister and brother in law can continue to run the business in her absence was a mistake. It shows she does not need to return to Thailand to maintain her business and could remain in Canada. Bringing a lawyer into it is nearly pointless due to the fact foreign nationals really have no course to appeal an IRCC decision made under the pretense to protect Canadians from "Bad People".

When I brought my spouse from Indonesia, I spent a significant amount of time establishing a travel history prior to applying to Canada. It involved multiple trips to Singapore and a few trips to Australia. The Australian trips were key to establish credibility, as a visa is required and we made sure the trips were short (5-7 days) and that there was never an overstay. Make sure she has a reason to go back to Thailand! The visa officer at the Canadian Consulate in Jakarta told me one of the primary reason for a visa approval is that they are sure she was going to leave! I'd leave running the business out, as they already have the old applications stating her family can take care of that. Some family event, or school, etc....something tangible. Remember, she has to prove she can afford the trip first and foremost. You're financials and support are secondary considerations and there is nothing binding you to pay for anything. Estimate a $1000/week for a trip, not including airfare.
Ask for a week and a single entry visa. Show a timeline and plan a detailed trip (we said we were landing in Vancouver, driving to Alberta to meet my family and driving back, at which point she would fly out when I travelled to the US...I included my ticket). Showing your ties to Thailand might help, but others should comment on that. You have to remember that generally, they issue the visa with no specific entry date, just an expiry. The determination of how long she can stay is made by CBSA when she enters Canada, and even at that, it can be extended once she is here.

Don't be in a hurry to reapply, address the rejections they provided you first. Order the GCMS notes on the file for more details.

Best of luck

 

[Greasewheel]

Just my perspective, but having mentioned her sister and brother in law can continue to run the business in her absence was a mistake. It shows she does not need to return to Thailand to maintain her business and could remain in Canada. Bringing a lawyer into it is nearly pointless due to the fact foreign nationals really have no course to appeal an IRCC decision made under the pretense to protect Canadians from "Bad People".

When I brought my spouse from Indonesia, I spent a significant amount of time establishing a travel history prior to applying to Canada. It involved multiple trips to Singapore and a few trips to Australia. The Australian trips were key to establish credibility, as a visa is required and we made sure the trips were short (5-7 days) and that there was never an overstay. Make sure she has a reason to go back to Thailand! The visa officer at the Canadian Consulate in Jakarta told me one of the primary reason for a visa approval is that they are sure she was going to leave! I'd leave running the business out, as they already have the old applications stating her family can take care of that. Some family event, or school, etc....something tangible. Remember, she has to prove she can afford the trip first and foremost. You're financials and support are secondary considerations and there is nothing binding you to pay for anything. Estimate a $1000/week for a trip, not including airfare.
Ask for a week and a single entry visa. Show a timeline and plan a detailed trip (we said we were landing in Vancouver, driving to Alberta to meet my family and driving back, at which point she would fly out when I travelled to the US...I included my ticket). Showing your ties to Thailand might help, but others should comment on that. You have to remember that generally, they issue the visa with no specific entry date, just an expiry. The determination of how long she can stay is made by CBSA when she enters Canada, and even at that, it can be extended once she is here.

Don't be in a hurry to reapply, address the rejections they provided you first. Order the GCMS notes on the file for more details.

Best of luck

Thanks for your thoughts. I never thought mentioning her sister's availability to watch her business as a negative. I can see your point. My thought process for including the fact that her sister could take care of the business was to explain how she could come for an extended period, although I don't consider 1 month extended when considering a $1500-$1800 high season air ticket and 15 - 17 hour flights. To my thinking spending that much money and effort for a weeks stay sounds suspicious. But what do I know, what I am doing so far isn't working. Thanks for your input and your time.

 

[Bryanna]

Thanks for your thoughts. I never thought mentioning her sister's availability to watch her business as a negative. I can see your point. My thought process for including the fact that her sister could take care of the business was to explain how she could come for an extended period, although I don't consider 1 month extended when considering a $1500-$1800 high season air ticket and 15 - 17 hour flights. To my thinking spending that much money and effort for a weeks stay sounds suspicious. But what do I know, what I am doing so far isn't working. Thanks for your input and your time.

I would have used the word *temporarily* to indicate that the sister cannot manage your girlfriend's business beyond a few weeks = your girlfriend must return to Thailand.

My two cents: If you decide to reapply, consider her application as objectively as possible (unemotionally) + from a visa officer's perspective. Do be careful about the choice of words. Do check for gaps in explanations/evidence. Everything she submits must prove that she will leave after a short visit (2-3 weeks).

Also, I wouldn't believe travel agents who say they have put together a strong application/your gf has a strong application because obviously it has not worked twice.

I suggest you do not send in another application until you get her case notes (as Buletruck has suggested). She must address every refusal reason with convincing evidence

 

[Greasewheel]

I would have used the word *temporarily* to indicate that the sister cannot manage your girlfriend's business beyond a few weeks = your girlfriend must return to Thailand.

My two cents: If you decide to reapply, consider her application as objectively as possible (unemotionally) + from a visa officer's perspective. Do be careful about the choice of words. Do check for gaps in explanations/evidence. Everything she submits must prove that she will leave after a short visit (2-3 weeks).

Also, I wouldn't believe travel agents who say they have put together a strong application/your gf has a strong application because obviously it has not worked twice.

I suggest you do not send in another application until you get her case notes (as Buletruck has suggested). She must address every refusal reason with convincing evidence

How do I go about getting these case notes? Do I need the case number? Are these notes different from the document supplied with the refusal?

 

[Bryanna]

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/department/atip/requests-atip.asp

Case notes are the observations/basis for the assessment made by the visa officer. It gives more details about the grounds for a refusal

 

[Greasewheel]

Seeing as my girlfriend applied for this visa in Bangkok, will I need her permission to access the case notes? And if so how would she show she has given this permission? Thanks again.

 

[riasat.abir]

They were not satisfied that she would leave Canada after her stay because of her "current employment situation." which is ridiculous. She has had her business for almost 20 years. I can only surmise that this had something to do with the owner of her building refusing her the document I mentioned. I can only surmise because they do not expound upon their decision, nor will they meet with you. They just take the $120 visa fee and say thank you very much. Would it be a help to have some of her clients vouch for her in some fashion? Also she was denied because of her "personal assets and financial status" which again seems ridiculous. Yes her bank account was trending down but her assets are approaching 1,000,000 baht. And how much money does she require to stay in my home for a month? It's been quite frustrating. Thanks for your interest.

Did she submit trade license? It is a must for owning business.
Does she have any other travel history?
Does she own any property/fixed asset?

 

[riasat.abir]

Seeing as my girlfriend applied for this visa in Bangkok, will I need her permission to access the case notes? And if so how would she show she has given this permission? Thanks again.

Yes she needs to sign the consent form:
http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/department/atip/form-imm5744.asp

 

[Greasewheel]

Did she submit trade license? It is a must for owning business.
Does she have any other travel history?
Does she own any property/fixed asset?

I am not sure about this trade license but I think not. She told me that all she could provide was a tax number/document. There is an issue with the owner of the building not wanting to give her some documentation she needed because he is hiding something from the government, and because he is giving her very favorable conditions on her lease I do not see this changing.
Her travel history is only within SE Asia to countries that don't require Thais to have a visa. Cambodia, Laos and Vietnam. All these trips were with me.
As far as assets go, she has her new motorbike and a parcel of land in her home province which she was able to supply title to.