Truth About Post Graduate Certificates & Diplomas in Canadian Colleges

[jigzyy]

Canada does have great education institutions, you just have to go to the right place. Unfortunately, colleges do not have strict standards which is why I am advising anyone who can attend university to go there.

The other issue could be because seats are limited and the competition is really high in Universities, not too many students score an admission. I know for a fact that with 82% in undergrad and 7.5 IELTS failed to secure Masters admissions in at least 5 universities in Canada (not me, a family member). If it helps, its for MA in English Literature.

Universities include: UofToronto, York University, Carleton University, Brock U and Wilfred Laurier.

She ended up getting admission in a postgrad certificate at Humber for Professional writing and communications (visa application submitted for this Fall 2020 session) to improve her writing which most likely the reason for not scoring admission for Masters.

 

[Impatient Dankaroo]

The other issue could be because seats are limited and the competition is really high in Universities, not too many students score an admission. I know for a fact that with 82% in undergrad and 7.5 IELTS failed to secure Masters admissions in at least 5 universities in Canada (not me, a family member). If it helps, its for MA in English Literature.

Universities include: UofToronto, York University, Carleton University, Brock U and Wilfred Laurier.

She ended up getting admission in a postgrad certificate at Humber for Professional writing and communications (visa application submitted for this Fall 2020 session) to improve her writing which most likely the reasons for not scoring admissions for Masters in university.

I am more familiar with Business and STEM admission processes and standards and since English Lit. falls under humanities (where cultural context may be relevant? I'm not sure), I can't speak as to why your family member was not able to gain admission despite her great score. But you make a good point. The competitive and thorough vetting process I think is a key reason why these have such a good reputation attached to it and are more trusted by employers.

 

[mithun5991]

Disclaimer: In Canada, universities and colleges are not the same

I have been meaning to post this for a while now and now I have found some time to do so. I hope that the information provided can help other prospective students recognize some harsh realities about Diplomas/Certificates in Canada that I wish I had known. The following is based off my first hand experience at one of these programs, second hand accounts of others and general knowledge I have read or heard in the past few years. There are a few programs that could be worth the money you pay but these are very few indeed. Everyone's situation varies slightly but I think most students want to eventually start a career in Canada upon graduation and education is the best way to do that. Personally, I wanted to get away from the complications that the government in the USA was increasingly creating for students looking to work. Also to provide context, I did a quantitative PG certificate at what is considered a 'respectable' college. Think Humber/Seneca/George Brown/Centennial. I can't even imagine how it is in the lesser known ones. The following are my observations:

1. Incompetent Professors: Maybe my expectations was wrong and naive or maybe I was spoiled by my previous education but the professors teaching the courses were absolutely amateur. Many of them did not have an appropriate degree in the field or even had degrees from distance learning institutions that had been shut down (pretty much a diploma mill). I have heard some that were doing a diploma while teaching the course (imagine that!). There were some that could not speak adequate English.
2. No Academic Integrity & Grade Inflation: Students are cheating all the time. Yes I know cheating is a thing but the amount of obvious, non-discreet cheating really questions the grades that you are receiving. Speaking of grades, professors are giving out As for fun as they are constantly pressured by international students who guilt trip them saying they need them for PGWP. I finished with 'honors' which did not mean anything.
3. Poor Academic Curriculum: Considering the two points, this is not surprising. The content being taught is all over the place and just put together to come up with something. I got along with a few professors and even they were instructed come up with something that aligns with the name of the class. Realistically, no substantial knowledge could be passed down and in turn well intention-ed professors like him were full of apathy.
4. International Students are Cash Cows: I mean this is true in all of Canada but there's no real attempt to pass down knowledge. It's basically a transaction: you pay 1/2 years of tuition and you'll get PGWP. Unfortunately, if you don't like it then there are plenty of other shmucks who will gladly fill your place.
5. Very low admissions criteria: For those who come from even a decent academic setting will be shocked at the students that you will now call your peers. Many can't speak English adequately, others are more focused about working than studying and some you wonder how they graduated at all prior to the program. Normally, I do not concern with the actions of others but this becomes a problem in group projects and when the professor starts to slow down the pace of learning for those slow people.
6. No Job Prospects & a Terrible Brand: The five above ultimately lead to this point which is no surprise. I can honestly say that I wouldn't hire the majority of people that I did the program with and I think employers already know how colleges have made education a for-profit business even in public institutions. The brand that you will have on your resume will be borderline negative on your overall brand as a professional.

This post was directed for genuine students who have a desire to further their knowledge in their program of study and have come from a somewhat competitive academic background. I know there are others who simply care about working part time or getting PGWP, which is fine. My recommendation to those genuine students would be to pursue a Master's if you already have a prior degree. If you do not have the grades to do so then there are plenty of Post-graduate diplomas at Universities that may be more beneficial.

Thank you so much for sharing this. Atleast now, we can be aware.
Could you please tell me..
How good is University of Windsor & Fanshawe College??
I would like to hear ur honest review on both of them.

 

[Oreoluwatemi]

To be honest with you I had the same thoughts, But my situation is a bit different, I studied Petroleum Engineering and I wanted to change my career to IT, however universities did not offer me that opportunity because to do masters you have to have a Computer background. I finally chose Humber because I read reviews regarding the school. I hope I made the right decision because I got a lot of good reviews regarding the school.

 

[Nol85]

True! Especially college of the North Atlantic!! Scam! Scam! Scam!

 

[jigzyy]

Most of the bigger colleges in GTA, like Humber, Seneca etc are reputable colleges. Always look for total enrolments of a college to get the idea about the size. I will probably avoid any college that are really far from Toronto and are in a smaller cities, like Barrie or Bellville etc. There are exceptions to some colleges though which are far from Toronto but are in a populous areas, like London, Niagara or Windsor etc.

To be honest with you I had the same thoughts, But my situation is a bit different, I studied Petroleum Engineering and I wanted to change my career to IT, however universities did not offer me that opportunity because to do masters you have to have a Computer background. I finally chose Humber because I read reviews regarding the school. I hope I made the right decision because I got a lot of good reviews regarding the school.

True! Especially college of the North Atlantic!! Scam! Scam! Scam!

 

[Impatient Dankaroo]

Thank you so much for sharing this. Atleast now, we can be aware.
Could you please tell me..
How good is University of Windsor & Fanshawe College??
I would like to hear ur honest review on both of them.

From my research, Windsor graduates tend to do well around the Windsor area but struggle to find jobs in Toronto (probably due to the high competition from local Toronto universities). Don't know about Fanshawe that much but probably similar to Seneca, George Brown, etc.

 

[primaprime]

I've also had some thoughts on this subject kicking around in my head. Here's my two cents:

Most public colleges like Seneca, Humber, and George Brown aren't diploma mills per se, but they have certainly come to view international students as cash cows to make up for declining domestic enrolment.

This is in conjunction with the explosion in study permits issued to Indian citizens in particular, because they're seen as the easiest point of entry to the Canadian immigration system at a time when other destinations such as the US and UK have become more selective. After all, you just need enough for a tuition deposit. A whole cottage industry has sprung up to sell the study permit-to-PR dream, something which the government has been slow to realize is unsustainable.

As a result, you have people coming who frankly have no business being international students—as former Minister of Immigration Ahmed Hussen put it, "International education in Canada is not for everybody." Nevertheless, their money is as green as anyone else's, so standards continue to decline.

The value of a one-year diploma in something like business management has never been enormous, but now they are a dime a dozen. The harsh reality facing a lot of international graduates from these programs is that their one-year PGWP will not be enough to gain the skilled work experience needed for PR.

(Then, there are the really bottom-tier private diploma mills like Herzing and Canada College, which in my opinion shouldn't even be on the DLI list.)

In addition to the usual advice given on this forum pointing out the typical reasons study permit applications are refused, it would be good to address some of these larger issues and suggest people who are serious about Canadian education focus on master's programs at reputable universities, if only to give themselves a leg up on all the one-year diploma holders.

 

[Impatient Dankaroo]

I've also had some thoughts on this subject kicking around in my head. Here's my two cents:

Most public colleges like Seneca, Humber, and George Brown aren't diploma mills per se, but they have certainly come to view international students as cash cows to make up for declining domestic enrolment.

This is in conjunction with the explosion in study permits issued to Indian citizens in particular, because they're seen as the easiest point of entry to the Canadian immigration system at a time when other destinations such as the US and UK have become more selective. After all, you just need enough for a tuition deposit. A whole cottage industry has sprung up to sell the study permit-to-PR dream, something which the government has been slow to realize is unsustainable.

As a result, you have people coming who frankly have no business being international students—as former Minister of Immigration Ahmed Hussen put it, "International education in Canada is not for everybody." Nevertheless, their money is as green as anyone else's, so standards continue to decline.

The value of a one-year diploma in something like business management has never been enormous, but now they are a dime a dozen. The harsh reality facing a lot of international graduates from these programs is that their one-year PGWP will not be enough to gain the skilled work experience needed for PR.

(Then, there are the really bottom-tier private diploma mills like Herzing and Canada College, which in my opinion shouldn't even be on the DLI list.)

In addition to the usual advice given on this forum pointing out the typical reasons study permit applications are refused, it would be good to address some of these larger issues and suggest people who are serious about Canadian education focus on master's programs at reputable universities, if only to give themselves a leg up on all the one-year diploma holders.

This sums it up very well. Seneca, Humber & George Brown PG programs are not diploma mills but are becoming diploma mill-esque. As you said, money is king. Their Bachelor programs are still well regarded though.

Because of Covid19 and the huge number of intl students already in Canada, job-hunting has become extremely competitive .You really need to obtain any advantage you can get.

And don't forget about new immigrants too. You're competing with them as well.