Transiting through YVR with expired PR Card

[danko8]

Hi all, so my wife (Japan Passport with expired PR Card) and 2 kids (Canada Passport) are flying from Dallas,TX to YVR for layover, then to Nagoya,Japan.
Her PR card expired as we moved to the US with US-L1B visa for myself and a US-L2 visa in her passport.

After checking the CIC website and Air Canada, there wasn’t any clear communication if they would allow her to board the flight due to expired PR card. We actually submitted the renewal 2 weeks ago so now waiting the 90 days for it to be approved. The flight is in 3 weeks from now and if we apply for PR travel Doc, it may not arrive in time. And plus she would need 2 PR TD since the return flight is through YVR, which is silly just for a 2hr layover so that we can fly Air Canada.

My question:
1- anyone have a similar experience and is it possible to explain to the AC Gate agent the situation with expired PR and will they let her on?
2- can she show her US L2 visa and get on the flight since we are now US Residents?

 

[zardoz]

Hi all, so my wife (Japan Passport with expired PR Card) and 2 kids (Canada Passport) are flying from Dallas,TX to YVR for layover, then to Nagoya,Japan.
Her PR card expired as we moved to the US with US-L1B visa for myself and a US-L2 visa in her passport.

After checking the CIC website and Air Canada, there wasn’t any clear communication if they would allow her to board the flight due to expired PR card. We actually submitted the renewal 2 weeks ago so now waiting the 90 days for it to be approved. The flight is in 3 weeks from now and if we apply for PR travel Doc, it may not arrive in time. And plus she would need 2 PR TD since the return flight is through YVR, which is silly just for a 2hr layover so that we can fly Air Canada.

My question:
1- anyone have a similar experience and is it possible to explain to the AC Gate agent the situation with expired PR and will they let her on?
2- can she show her US L2 visa and get on the flight since we are now US Residents?

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/helpcentre/answer.asp?qnum=420&top=16

I'm pretty sure that she will still need a PRTD as she won't be able to obtain an eTA. http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/visit/visas-result.asp?country=JP&result=2

Your US visa gives you no benefit.

 

[Rob_TO]

Visa-exempt travelers to Canada require an eTA to be linked to their passport, to be allowed boarding to Canada. It doesn't matter if it's for a visit to Canada, or just transiting through.

Since PRs are ineligible for eTAs, PRs must show either a valid PR card or a PR Travel Document to be allowed boarding on a plane to Canada else the airline gets a big "NO BOARD" notice on the screen since no eTA is linked to the passport. Again it doesn't matter if it's just transiting. This is quite clear on website: https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/services/visit-canada/permanent-residents.html

She can certainly try to explain her situation to Air Canada gate, but what she is asking them to do is break the rules they have established with Canada, subjecting them to huge possible fines if by some chance she was committing fraud and was discovered upon arrival in Canada (she isn't, but airline has no way of knowing). Odds are they will not budge, and she will be denied boarding. She most likely won't even be issued the ticket.

She would be better off to re-route the flight so she doesn't need to transit through Canada.

Also note if she applied for PR card renewal while not living in Canada, most likely IRCC will demand she pick up the card in person from their office and won't mail it to any address in Canada.

 

[danko8]

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/helpcentre/answer.asp?qnum=420&top=16

I'm pretty sure that she will still need a PRTD as she won't be able to obtain an eTA. http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/visit/visas-result.asp?country=JP&result=2

Your US visa gives you no benefit.

Thanks, we will send the PR TD request and hope we get it back. I wish the contact method with CIC was more simple and helpful. When we tried to submit the eTA we were told that she would need to renounce her PR status to get the ETA, that sounds more painful because we would need to start over. Appreciate it!

 

[danko8]

Visa-exempt travelers to Canada require an eTA to be linked to their passport, to be allowed boarding to Canada. It doesn't matter if it's for a visit to Canada, or just transiting through.

Since PRs are ineligible for eTAs, PRs must show either a valid PR card or a PR Travel Document to be allowed boarding on a plane to Canada else the airline gets a big "NO BOARD" notice on the screen since no eTA is linked to the passport. Again it doesn't matter if it's just transiting. This is quite clear on website: https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/services/visit-canada/permanent-residents.html

She can certainly try to explain her situation to Air Canada gate, but what she is asking them to do is break the rules they have established with Canada, subjecting them to huge possible fines if by some chance she was committing fraud and was discovered upon arrival in Canada (she isn't, but airline has no way of knowing). Odds are they will not budge, and she will be denied boarding. She most likely won't even be issued the ticket.

She would be better off to re-route the flight so she doesn't need to transit through Canada.

Also note if she applied for PR card renewal while not living in Canada, most likely IRCC will demand she pick up the card in person from their office and won't mail it to any address in Canada.

Thanks, we did apply while in Canada so if they want us to pick up, we can just fly to Buffalo and drive up. Our mailing address is still at our house, which we kept vacant.

Regarding the website, the term “may not be allowed to board the flight” is definitely not clear.

What baffles me is why the CIC, even though they consider all PR’s still having “PR Status” even with an expired PR card, and still make you jump through hoops to get an ETA (renounce status), Renew PR (3months wait) or get PR TD, which is quite painful application process by sending all documents to a VAC with confusing site.

Next time- no transit to Canada is best, where you want to go to feel safe on an AC flight, but not offered by AC without landing in YVR, YYZ or other Canadian airport.

 

[zardoz]

Thanks, we did apply while in Canada so if they want us to pick up, we can just fly to Buffalo and drive up. Our mailing address is still at our house, which we kept vacant.

Regarding the website, the term “may not be allowed to board the flight” is definitely not clear.

What baffles me is why the CIC, even though they consider all PR’s still having “PR Status” even with an expired PR card, and still make you jump through hoops to get an ETA (renounce status), Renew PR (3months wait) or get PR TD, which is quite painful application process by sending all documents to a VAC with confusing site.

Next time- no transit to Canada is best, where you want to go to feel safe on an AC flight, but not offered by AC without landing in YVR, YYZ or other Canadian airport.

Well, it's quite a good way of weeding out those who believe that the Residency Obligations "don't apply to them". The PRTD process is an effective filter.

 

[Rob_TO]

Thanks, we did apply while in Canada so if they want us to pick up, we can just fly to Buffalo and drive up. Our mailing address is still at our house, which we kept vacant.

Regarding the website, the term “may not be allowed to board the flight” is definitely not clear.

What baffles me is why the CIC, even though they consider all PR’s still having “PR Status” even with an expired PR card, and still make you jump through hoops to get an ETA (renounce status), Renew PR (3months wait) or get PR TD, which is quite painful application process by sending all documents to a VAC with confusing site.

Next time- no transit to Canada is best, where you want to go to feel safe on an AC flight, but not offered by AC without landing in YVR, YYZ or other Canadian airport.

The strict rules are there so PRs not in compliance with the residency obligation, can't easily "sneak" back into Canada on just a visa-exempt passport. With eTA system in place, checks are done on the PR before they can even fly to Canada. Of course this complicates things for people like your wife.

Next time just make sure to renew the PR card in plenty of time, or request a PR TD in plenty of time.

Also make sure to explain the situation in the PR TD application, and request a multiple-entry PR TD. Else she could be stuck in Japan going through the whole PR TD process again from there to board a flight home.

Make sure to also include copies of the tickets already booked, and request they send back her passport + PR TD before the flight. No guarantees or standards when it comes to PR TDs, so hopefully it arrives back in time. But be prepared for worst case scenario it doesn't and flights will need to be re-scheduled to a later date.
The 2 VACs you can choose from to mail the app is NY or LA, not sure which is better. You might want to call them to ask if they have expected processing time for PR TDs. http://www.csc-cvac.com/en-US/selfservice/cvac_application_centres

 

[Helena R]

Guys, give the guy a break !

Let him at least vent about the situation...

Have a little more empathy, please !

 

[danko8]

The strict rules are there so PRs not in compliance with the residency obligation, can't easily "sneak" back into Canada on just a visa-exempt passport. With eTA system in place, checks are done on the PR before they can even fly to Canada. Of course this complicates things for people like your wife.

Next time just make sure to renew the PR card in plenty of time, or request a PR TD in plenty of time.

Also make sure to explain the situation in the PR TD application, and request a multiple-entry PR TD. Else she could be stuck in Japan going through the whole PR TD process again from there to board a flight home.

Make sure to also include copies of the tickets already booked, and request they send back her passport + PR TD before the flight. No guarantees or standards when it comes to PR TDs, so hopefully it arrives back in time. But be prepared for worst case scenario it doesn't and flights will need to be re-scheduled to a later date.
The 2 VACs you can choose from to mail the app is NY or LA, not sure which is better. You might want to call them to ask if they have expected processing time for PR TDs. http://www.csc-cvac.com/en-US/selfservice/cvac_application_centres

Thank you, I agree and we decided to submit the PRTD with request for multiple entry request, we're hopeful it will be returned by 1 week. I went through most of the CIC websites to fill out the PRTD application, with collection of all documents, proof of residency, CRA NOA for last 5 years, all complete. All went smooth until I had the package and ready to mail it to the VISA office, and then I started to read the involvement of the CSC-VAC middleman, reviewing the VAC Process. We sent to the VAC-LA location

I challenge anyone who went through this PRTD through VAC to admit this was simple. VAC instructions on the site are all mixed for the different Visa Application types, another payment to be mailed to a separate LOCKBOX location (no online payment option), hard to follow, reminded me of an Algebra class on Vector Spaces in undergrad. It took me a good chunk of the day to ensure the package included all additional items for just VAC (which is an optional step). I feel sympathy for those whom English is not a primary language and they need to follow this site.

Thanks for everyone who offered suggestions & advice, I don't take the PR or PRTD process for granted, just wish it was more simple like maybe an initial online process similar to eTA, but for PR with expired card, that can determine if they need a full scale application with all documents, or a simple approval for just transiting through a Canadian airport on vacation.

 

[danko8]

Guys, give the guy a break !

Let him at least vent about the situation...

Have a little more empathy, please !

Thank you, my wife and I only blame ourselves for not knowing, I blame myself for expecting no issues for a transiting flight through YVR with a cheaper Air Canada Rouge. =)