Verify you met citizenship requirements and continue to meet PR residency requirements.
Track experiences of applicants living outside Canada
- Thread starter BogusApplicant
- Start date
Yes i did ask them when they sent me an email in Feb asking when I'm coming back. They never replied and yesterday I got an email from them requesting my passport scans.
Some observations, in part reminders:
For those hoping to take the oath of citizenship while abroad, there is no sign that IRCC will be facilitating this. There is no sign that the law has changed, and the law requires that 5(1) applicants take the oath IN Canada.
The Minister can authorize taking the oath while abroad for particular individuals, pursuant to a specific exception in the Regulations.
But again for those hoping to take the oath of citizenship while abroad, they should be aware this is a SPECIAL exception, and there is little indication that the threshold for getting such special processing will be lowered much. I cannot say what the specific process is for getting authorization to take the oath abroad once an application or petition to the Registrar is properly made, whether or not for example the Registrar or some other official has been delegated to make the decision rather than the Minister personally (someone with time should make the ATI application to find out more about this), but so far the reports about applicants authorized to take the oath abroad are at most RARE. Probably a little more often than the Minister authorizes a grant of citizenship to someone who does not actually meet the grant citizenship requirements, but that is the nature of this exception.
I suppose I am something of a party pooper here, regarding this, but for those making decisions about remaining abroad, it generally helps to have realistic rather than fantastic expectations. Some here may, after making a proper application to the Registrar, get to take the oath abroad. Most should anticipate otherwise. By the way, if anyone can find instructions for how to make a proper application for taking the oath abroad, or IRCC based-source of information about what criteria is considered, that information would of course be helpful to anyone who is abroad and who is hoping to successfully make such an application. (My impression is that among the very small number who have been able to take the oath abroad, with perhaps isolated exceptions they have had lawyers making the application for them.)
But there is also the other side of the living-abroad-after-applying situation, as illustrated here:
But the document/information request itself is a reminder that the jury is still out in regards to how IRCC is handling citizenship applicants known or perceived to be living abroad after applying for citizenship. It is clear that IRCC does NOT handle all such applicants the same. Some are clearly sailing through the process with no problems. But it still appears that SOME applicants abroad are running into non-routine processing of varying degrees, some not particularly problematic, some a lot more problematic.
Some here snark and snip, call such a request comical or such, and some seem to insist IRCC is overstepping its authority, but for those paying attention to what IRCC actually says, it is clear they are asking at least SOME applicants abroad to provide specific details about WHEN they went abroad. No advanced degrees in rocket science necessary to map the trajectory of this: verification of when the applicant was IN Canada, examining evidence regarding the applicant's location and respective dates, at the least looking to see if there should be any further inquiry into whether the applicant's reported physical presence in the application is accurate and complete. IRCC is obviously interested in this information to, at the least, to help discern whether RQ-related non-routine processing needs to be done.
In the past it was easier to identify which applicants were subject to RQ-related non-routine processing, since that almost always entailed the applicant getting a RQ-request for additional documents or information. More recently there have been signs that IRCC is referring some applicants to CBSA, and its NSSD division, to conduct an investigation into the applicant's physical presence, with no requests to the applicant while that investigation is pending. That's a black hole so far as the applicant is concerned, because even just the referral is typically confidential (investigatory methods and means information), so there is no notation in the version of GCMS the applicant has access to. All the applicant knows is that nothing is happening for longer than other applicants.
It is very difficult, almost impossible, to identify which applicants abroad will run into problems, versus those who sail through smoothly. All anyone who is conscientiously considering things can genuinely offer is that it appears there continues to be increased RISKS for non-routine processing and delays for applicants known or perceived to be abroad while their application is pending. Historically there were, for sure, significantly higher risks for applicants abroad after applying. For now, as noted, the jury is still out. Since the vast majority of applications have run into delays it is very difficult to correlate processing timeline information with certain groups of applicants, like here, those abroad after applying.
For those hoping to take the oath of citizenship while abroad, there is no sign that IRCC will be facilitating this. There is no sign that the law has changed, and the law requires that 5(1) applicants take the oath IN Canada.
The Minister can authorize taking the oath while abroad for particular individuals, pursuant to a specific exception in the Regulations.
But again for those hoping to take the oath of citizenship while abroad, they should be aware this is a SPECIAL exception, and there is little indication that the threshold for getting such special processing will be lowered much. I cannot say what the specific process is for getting authorization to take the oath abroad once an application or petition to the Registrar is properly made, whether or not for example the Registrar or some other official has been delegated to make the decision rather than the Minister personally (someone with time should make the ATI application to find out more about this), but so far the reports about applicants authorized to take the oath abroad are at most RARE. Probably a little more often than the Minister authorizes a grant of citizenship to someone who does not actually meet the grant citizenship requirements, but that is the nature of this exception.
I suppose I am something of a party pooper here, regarding this, but for those making decisions about remaining abroad, it generally helps to have realistic rather than fantastic expectations. Some here may, after making a proper application to the Registrar, get to take the oath abroad. Most should anticipate otherwise. By the way, if anyone can find instructions for how to make a proper application for taking the oath abroad, or IRCC based-source of information about what criteria is considered, that information would of course be helpful to anyone who is abroad and who is hoping to successfully make such an application. (My impression is that among the very small number who have been able to take the oath abroad, with perhaps isolated exceptions they have had lawyers making the application for them.)
But there is also the other side of the living-abroad-after-applying situation, as illustrated here:
For @RoseDB this is mostly past tense, given both the return to Canada and the submission of the requested documents.
But the document/information request itself is a reminder that the jury is still out in regards to how IRCC is handling citizenship applicants known or perceived to be living abroad after applying for citizenship. It is clear that IRCC does NOT handle all such applicants the same. Some are clearly sailing through the process with no problems. But it still appears that SOME applicants abroad are running into non-routine processing of varying degrees, some not particularly problematic, some a lot more problematic.
Some here snark and snip, call such a request comical or such, and some seem to insist IRCC is overstepping its authority, but for those paying attention to what IRCC actually says, it is clear they are asking at least SOME applicants abroad to provide specific details about WHEN they went abroad. No advanced degrees in rocket science necessary to map the trajectory of this: verification of when the applicant was IN Canada, examining evidence regarding the applicant's location and respective dates, at the least looking to see if there should be any further inquiry into whether the applicant's reported physical presence in the application is accurate and complete. IRCC is obviously interested in this information to, at the least, to help discern whether RQ-related non-routine processing needs to be done.
In the past it was easier to identify which applicants were subject to RQ-related non-routine processing, since that almost always entailed the applicant getting a RQ-request for additional documents or information. More recently there have been signs that IRCC is referring some applicants to CBSA, and its NSSD division, to conduct an investigation into the applicant's physical presence, with no requests to the applicant while that investigation is pending. That's a black hole so far as the applicant is concerned, because even just the referral is typically confidential (investigatory methods and means information), so there is no notation in the version of GCMS the applicant has access to. All the applicant knows is that nothing is happening for longer than other applicants.
It is very difficult, almost impossible, to identify which applicants abroad will run into problems, versus those who sail through smoothly. All anyone who is conscientiously considering things can genuinely offer is that it appears there continues to be increased RISKS for non-routine processing and delays for applicants known or perceived to be abroad while their application is pending. Historically there were, for sure, significantly higher risks for applicants abroad after applying. For now, as noted, the jury is still out. Since the vast majority of applications have run into delays it is very difficult to correlate processing timeline information with certain groups of applicants, like here, those abroad after applying.
This is utterly false now. Tons of people (anecdotal) have been doing their oath outside Canada.
There may be three dozen or so anecdotal reports by individuals claiming they were allowed to take the oath outside Canada, so sure, adding up to "tons" of people (noting that merely 10 to 20 people will easily make a ton). And quite a few older Canadians who have spent a lot of time in the U.S., like myself, still default weight references to pounds and tons. But, frankly, "Tons of people" does not add up to all that many and does not illuminate much at all.
Meanwhile, that in no way suggests that the information you quote, what I posted MORE than a YEAR AGO (back in April 2022), is in any way false.
Moreover, by the way, that was nearly a year BEFORE the change in regulations governing the oath were even proposed (which was in February this year), and well over a year BEFORE these changes were expected to be officially adopted (which was supposed to be in June).
While of course there are some changes since then, to the extent you are stating that applicants living abroad after applying for citizenship can rely on the proposition that they will be given the opportunity to take the oath of citizenship while abroad, following routine processing with no delays related to being outside Canada, that is getting out over your skis some, some might say. Premature at this juncture.
It is still NOT clear who, when, or in what circumstances SOME applicants are being allowed to take the oath online while they are outside Canada. Sure, again, apparently, purportedly, "tons of people" have, and it seems likely that even more than that have, maybe several dozen people even. Not enough, however, to draw firm conclusions about who, when, or in what circumstances.
Last I reviewed the PDIs for administration and oath, IRCC still has not adopted clear policies and practices regarding changes to administering the oath for Section 5(1) grants of citizenship (note there are other types of applications for citizenship for which the oath may be taken outside Canada, not to be confused with the typical adult application for citizenship). Many, including me, are watching for this, and of course will appreciate it when honest and genuine information, reliable information, is shared here.
If you have access to current information, particularly official or authoritative sources, which reliably illuminate more about current IRCC practices and policies regarding administration of the oath for Section 5(1) citizenship applicants, please share.
Meanwhile, it remains prudent for applicants who are living outside Canada to wait and see how things go before relying on being able to take the oath online while abroad. Again, it appears some will be able to do this, but that's the extent of what is known for now.
I totally agree with @dpenabill. Oath outside Canada is happening very rarely and in extreme situation because of which IRCC is concluding that you are not able to come to Canada for Oath. In all other cases people are getting reprimanded that this is "Notice to appear" and not an invite for Oath. Also I feel the country you are residing is also playing a big role. The people in the forum who were allowed to take Oath outside Canada and when I asked about their current residence, are mainly residing in European countries. I still have to see a case from Asia.
Oath outside Canada will be a positive move, hope to see more experiences being shared in the forum. Till then be prepared to travel for your oath to Canada.
"this is utterly false" with "tons of anecdotal examples". Oh man I see you applying a different standard to others
It is utterly false. And yes the examples I admitted were anecdotal. What’s hard to understand?
Actually that statement, asserting that the content of a post made more than a year ago "is utterly false now," was not speculation but itself NOT true, not at all, not in any respect.
It is always rich when someone asks for sources when they typically make unfounded propositions without offering sources, especially when they decline to even respond to requests for sources.
Rather recent example in a post specifically addressed to you and your claim assuring adult grant citizenship applicants they can now take the oath outside Canada:
None offered warrants the conclusion you have none . . . suggesting your claim is not so much speculation but rather unfounded.
As for a source of the proposition by @forw.jane that notwithstanding SOME applicants being allowed to take the oath outside Canada, and indications that IRCC might, but so far just MIGHT be moving toward more broadly allowing applicants to take the oath online while outside Canada, but so far there is no indication this is broadly available NOW, there is the recent information from IRCC provided by @alex202323 indicating the need to return to Canada to take the oath:
This is consistent with more of the anecdotal reporting in this forum than reports about being able to take the oath outside Canada, by a wide margin. And it is consistent with the Citizenship regulations (current to August 21, 2023), which allow the oath to be taken outside Canada in very limited, special instances, for section 5(1) citizenship grants (in contrast, the oath may be taken abroad for some grants under other sections, such as minors and special grants to reward services to Canada), NOTING, however, there are proposed changes to these regulations which are expected to take effect (and were expected to take effect as soon as this last June, but apparently something is holding this up).
Otherwise, there are numerous anecdotal reports in this forum by applicants who have been required to notify IRCC when they will return to Canada in order to be scheduled for the oath. This may be changing, but for now it is still NOT clear who, when, or in what circumstances SOME applicants are being allowed to take the oath online while they are outside Canada. Thus, again, it remains prudent for applicants who are living outside Canada to wait and see how things go before relying on being able to take the oath online while abroad.
If there is a credible source of information illuminating more than this, again, PLEASE SHARE.
Well, it's hard to understand your logic without credible information, concrete data points, and related policy citations. I wish you had the same critical reasoning process as others here in the discussion.