Took 5 months to receive PRC after 1st landing; When obligation starts?

[kelotan]

Hi,

I found this forum while I was desperately searching for information about residency obligation. I would like to have experts' advices on how to calculate the obligation for my seemingly unusual case.

When I first landed on Canada (YVR) on May 30th several years ago, I was not actually ready to settle in. I just wanted to activate my immigration visa and receive PRC at that time, then return to my home country (Japan) in a few weeks.

Unfortunately, at the airport's immigration office the officer in charge did not authorize me to receive PRC immediately, saying the card cannot be issued unless I was ready to fully settle in. I tried to convince him but to no avail (no surprises). So I gave up and entered Canada anyway, did some business, and returned to Japan couple of weeks later.

But to my surprise, five months later I suddenly received an envelope from CIC which contained my very PRC! Sad to say however, I was about to give up immigration by that time and lost narrow window to immigrate (in terms of business and family issues) thus I haven't been able to settle in to Canada yet.

Now, I would like to know from which date the residency obligation actually started. The basic regulation says it begins on the 1st landing (May 30th), but the expiration date on PRC says November 3rd. Could someone please enlighten me which date I should use to calculate the obligation? IMHO, I think it's a little unfair to use the 1st landing date because it took five months to receive the PRC...

Any advice will be greatly appreciated. Thank you very much in advance.

 

[AndrewJS]

What year did you land the first time? How many years have you been outside of Canada?

 

[keesio]

If it has been less than five years since you landed, then it would start with the date you officially landed (May 30th). If it is after five years, then it is simply 5 years back from the current date. There is no direct correlation between the PRC expiry date and your RO. The expiry date just applies to the PRC.

 

[Leon]

The obligation for all PR's starts on the day they land. They have to meet the RO for the first 5 years of their PR as well as in any rolling 5 year period after that. This means that after you have been a PR for 5 years or more, they will always look at the past 5 years.

Some people make the mistake of thinking that they can meet the RO for their first years counting from the landing date until PR card expiry which like in your case is usually longer than 5 years but that is not the case either. They will only look at a 5 year period.

 

[kelotan]

Thank you everybody for such quick and detailed responses! I really appreciate your kindness.

Now I understand that the residency obligation starts from the 1st landing regardless of the expiration date on PRC. This IS a bad news indeed because it means my RO is running out... ???

This appears to be asked and answered here repeatedly, but please allow me to ask again if it's still possible to renew/retain PRC even if I failed to meet RO. I read through this forum and found mixed information regarding ran-out RO such as:

• I still can enter/live/work in Canada legally even if it's obvious I won't be able to meet RO, and an immigration officer should not revoke PRC upon entrance to Canada.

• Or at the point when RO ran out, my PRC is virtually gone, and I can only enter Canada as a tourist and won't be able to live and work in Canada anymore.

• Or when I try to enter Canada with ran-out RO and an immigration officer is in a bad mood, he will take away PRC at his discretion. This will complicate the future situation significantly.

• It's still possible to renew PRC with good justification/appeal/petition (such as "I've started business in Canada and have been doing well", "I've got a solid permanent position in well-established Canadian company and has been working there for a year", etc).

• Or it's next to impossible to renew PRC without satisfying RO, regardless of justification/appeal/petition.

I understand it's very difficult to precisely predict CIC's reaction to such situations, and perhaps every CIC officer has different opinions on this, but if you are kind enough to share any rules of thumb or someone's real-life experience, it will be a tremendous help for me to make up future strategy...

 

[Leon]

When you enter Canada while in breach of the RO, the immigration officer can report you.

If they report you, they would let you enter Canada but you would have 30 days to appeal the report.

If you do not appeal after having been reported, you will most likely lose your PR and be asked to leave.
If you appeal, you will be allowed to stay in Canada for the duration of the appeal processing which can take 1-2 years. During this time, you are still a PR and may work or study. If you lose the appeal, you will lose your PR and be asked to leave. Time spent in Canada during the appeal process is only counted towards the RO if you win your appeal.

Winning or losing an appeal depends on your reasons for not meeting the RO. If you had humanitarian reasons like taking care of a sick parent for example, you have a good chance. If you had self serving reasons like choosing to work or study in another country, you would have a slim chance. If you are borderline with winning vs. losing, immigration may consider how well you have settled in Canada during your appeal processing as an additional factor.

If the immigration officer lets you enter Canada without reporting you, regardless of them having found out that you are in breach of the RO or not, you would have a chance to bring your PR status back into good standing by simply staying in Canada for 2 years straight. At that point, you would meet the RO again and could renew your PR card normally. However, it would be important that you do not attract the attention of immigration during the 2 years. You are still a PR but if immigration were to find out that you do not meet the RO while you still don't, they can still report you. Therefore, you should not risk leaving Canada for the 2 years, you should not apply to renew your PR card when it expires and you should not apply to sponsor a member of your family.


However, instead of taking these risks, it would be much better that you return to Canada now while you are still able to meet the RO.

 

[kelotan]

Leon, thanks million for providing me with such an detailed and comprehensive explanation. Thanks to you, now I understand the situation around RO very well.

So, even if I could successfully enter Canada without raising an officer's alert, staying in Canada with ran-out RO sounds like being an illegal alien. Living in Canada with a fear of being discovered by authority like a hiding criminal for two years sounds terrible to say the least. But I first landed on Canada on May 30 2011, so I only have a month til my RO runs out...

Judging from your explanation, I better bet on the slim chance of humanitarian appeal. My mother has actually been sick for decades and taking medical care periodically, and I often accompany her when visiting a hospital . Perhaps I may be able to ask doctors in charge for providing some evidences (medical history records, proof of medical care, etc). In this case, I think I must find a good immigration consultant to prepare and apply for successful appeal....this means I must invest significant time and money into PRC again, but it sounds much much better than being an illegal alien...

Does this Canadavisa.com provide a consultant service for such a case? Or should I look somewhere else?

 

[Leon]

Staying in Canada as a PR with an expired PR card does not mean that you are an illegal alien. You are still a PR as your PR status has never been revoked and your PR status is between you and immigration. There is no law in Canada that says you must renew your PR card when it expires.

Although no law states you must have a valid PR card to be a PR, various establishment may ask for it anway as proof of your status. As long as you have your drivers license and health card taken care of before your PR card expires, you shouldn't have a problem. In case anybody asks, you can say that you have applied but they are taking a long time. It is not up to the police or anybody other than immigration to ask you if you meet the RO so as long as you stay clear of immigration, you would be fine.

 

[kelotan]

Thanks very much Leon for sharing your expertise generously. I never thought that is possible. It sounds really tempting, but also sounds still risky for me.

While I can successfully enter/live/work in Canada that way, I obviously need to cross the border once in a while (to my home country or any other countries). To do that I must always go through the immigration's screening, right? Once immigration officers find out I'm living and working in Canada with expired RO/PRC, I imagine I will caught in a hairy interrogation which can end up deportation in the worst case scenario. This not only blows away my life in Canada, but also destroys my business reputation...or should I be a little more positive and optimistic?

Anyway, series of your responses gave me several different point of views which certainly help me deciding what to do next. Thank you very much again for your advice.

 

[Leon]

If you want to try entering and staying for 2 years to revive your PR status, I would strongly recommend that you don't travel during the 2 years. Each time you travel, you would risk that you get reported as you return. Not deported though. They would still have to go through the same process of assessing you, deciding if to report and you would get the chance to appeal and only if you lose the appeal they would ask you to leave and only if you don't leave when asked to, you could get deported.

If you do get reported and appeal, you would be able to renew your PR card for a year at a time and you would be able to travel. However, at your appeal hearing if you are somewhere between winning and losing and they want to consider how settled you are in Canada, it will not help if you have been travelling a lot during the appeal processing time as they will think that you are still not ready to settle.