To all those submitting love letters and cards as proof of relationship

[flx2015]

be wary. apparently visa officers think that expressing too much love in a love letter or card probably means that it's a fake. damned if we do, damned if we don't. honestly sometimes this whole process feels like we're being stood up before the Spanish inquisition.

source: http://www.thestar.com/news/immigration/2014/02/01/a_rare_look_inside_the_black_box_of_canada_immigration.html

 

[Crawley007]

That is ridiculous. They think I'm writing the letters for them because they're lovey? Well I wasn't, but I will be writing for them now and toning it down... My God >.>

 

[scylla]

I think one of the most real things you can send are the boring every day exchanges (especially if you've spent any time living together). I sent a bunch that we had in email. I literally had one that read like this:

"Where are you?"
"I'm on the streetcar. Almost home."
"What do you want to do for dinner tonight?"
"I don't know. What do you want?"
"I don't know. What about stir fry?"
"No. We had that two days ago."
"Oh - I forgot to tell you this morning that your mom called. She left a message."
"What did it say?"
"I don't know - I didn't really listen to it. Something about next Sunday."
"So what are we doing for dinner?"

 

[flx2015]

I think one of the most real things you can send are the boring every day exchanges (especially if you've spent any time living together). I sent a bunch that we had in email. I literally had one that read like this:

"Where are you?"
"I'm on the streetcar. Almost home."
"What do you want to do for dinner tonight?"
"I don't know. What do you want?"
"I don't know. What about stir fry?"
"No. We had that two days ago."
"Oh - I forgot to tell you this morning that your mom called. She left a message."
"What did it say?"
"I don't know - I didn't really listen to it. Something about next Sunday."
"So what are we doing for dinner?"

i sent 90 pages of that in 8pt font. they're going to shred it, most likely without reading any of it because i foolishly downsized the font in order to make it fit on less pages.

 

[Aquakitty]

be wary. apparently visa officers think that expressing too much love in a love letter or card probably means that it's a fake. damned if we do, damned if we don't. honestly sometimes this whole process feels like we're being stood up before the Spanish inquisition.

source: http://www.thestar.com/news/immigration/2014/02/01/a_rare_look_inside_the_black_box_of_canada_immigration.html

I think you are misunderstanding what they are saying. This isn't a black and white issue here, they mean it can seem suspicious if someone is writing love letters that are "too perfect" and look like they are just for the purpose of immigration. Most people don't write each other over-the-top love letters when they are in a serious relationship, nor do they talk about love non-stop.

 

[Mardek]

To be honest, I'm ok with this.

Even though it takes a while to get the paperwork sorted and the wait time is long, it ensures that only legit couples get the privilege to live in Canada.
In the end, the main reason why we have to go through all this, is because a lot of people abused the system.

 

[flx2015]

To be honest, I'm ok with this.

Even though it takes a while to get the paperwork sorted and the wait time is long, it ensures that only legit couples get the privilege to live in Canada.
In the end, the main reason why we have to go through all this, is because a lot of people abused the system.

you're making the assumption that every rejected applicant is not in a genuine relationship. here's the scary part: legit couples are also rejected more often than we like to think. if it's reasonable to assume that those who win appeals are in genuine relationships that were at first wrongfully rejected, then we can get approx figures on this by determining the percentage of applicants that are rejected versus the percentage that win appeals.

i agree with you on the fact that the immigration system has been abused for way too long, but screening out applicants based on "proof of relationship" that they provide just isn't a good enough solution to the problem.

 

[canadausa#11]

I'd like to hear your solution to screening out marriage fraud then?

 

[sashali78]

I'd like to hear your solution to screening out marriage fraud then?

No need to screen it out. Let them in. Medically/security/criminality wise they are fully checked. Financially, the sponsor is responsible for them for 3 years so government is of the hook as well. Sponsor cannot sponsor more than once in 5 years.
So what if 10-15% will be fraud marriages? That's still the least burdensome immigration stream for Canada as a whole.
Also, IMO its better to approve fraud than wrongfully reject even 1% of real couples and make them suffer years of separation. In short, the government is fighting windmills.

 

[Aquakitty]

No need to screen it out. Let them in. Medically/security/criminality wise they are fully checked. Financially, the sponsor is responsible for them for 3 years so government is of the hook as well. Sponsor cannot sponsor more than once in 5 years.
So what if 10-15% will be fraud marriages? That's still the least burdensome immigration stream for Canada as a whole.
Also, IMO its better to approve fraud than wrongfully reject even 1% of real couples and make them suffer years of separation. In short, the government is fighting windmills.

Interesting point, but if 10-15% are fraud marriages and we just let every marriage in no matter what, I think that number would spike a lot higher.

As it stands, if you are clever about it you can easily have a fraud marriage. But yes, legit marriages do indeed fall through the cracks. Part of the issue is not so much the visa denial, but the horrendously long wait times to prove otherwise.

 

[canadausa#11]

No need to screen it out. Let them in. Medically/security/criminality wise they are fully checked. Financially, the sponsor is responsible for them for 3 years so government is of the hook as well. Sponsor cannot sponsor more than once in 5 years.
So what if 10-15% will be fraud marriages? That's still the least burdensome immigration stream for Canada as a whole.
Also, IMO its better to approve fraud than wrongfully reject even 1% of real couples and make them suffer years of separation. In short, the government is fighting windmills.

There would be a massive, massive increase in people just buying there way into Canada. And yes Canadian taxpayers would suffer from that.

 

[Mardek]

you're making the assumption that every rejected applicant is not in a genuine relationship. here's the scary part: legit couples are also rejected more often than we like to think. if it's reasonable to assume that those who win appeals are in genuine relationships that were at first wrongfully rejected, then we can get approx figures on this by determining the percentage of applicants that are rejected versus the percentage that win appeals.

i agree with you on the fact that the immigration system has been abused for way too long, but screening out applicants based on "proof of relationship" that they provide just isn't a good enough solution to the problem.

It is frustrating, but you just confirmed that the system works.
VO officers make a decision based on presented facts, if they choose to refuse, you have a chance to prove them wrong and appeal.
If you succeed, there is your justice, however if you do not, it means that you either didn't do your homework and did not provide enough evidence, or your marriage is a fraud.

 

[flx2015]

It is frustrating, but you just confirmed that the system works.
VO officers make a decision based on presented facts, if they choose to refuse, you have a chance to prove them wrong and appeal.
If you succeed, there is your justice, however if you do not, it means that you either didn't do your homework and did not provide enough evidence, or your marriage is a fraud.

i'm shocked at how you've got the nerve to put the blame on the applicants. what of those applicants who did their homework thoroughly and whose marriages were not fraud, yet were still rejected? i suggest you have a read through the spousal appeals thread on this forum.

appeals take time, and there's no justice in having to wait an additional 3-4 years before being reunited with your spouse because someone at an overseas VO was too hasty in rejecting your case. in the end, my point remains: VO officers can and do make wrong decisions based on presented facts. whether this happens 1% of the time or 0.01% of the time, i refuse to see separated couples as percentages. all i see are broken hearts, children growing up without their mother/father, and lost time that can never be recovered.

i don't have a solution because i'm just a sponsor and i'm not familiar with the inner workings of the sponsorship process. however, it would help if the government trusted us enough to give spousal TRVs. the americans do it, so why can't we? are canadians less trustworthy?

 

[WeeHippieElf]

Most people don't write each other over-the-top love letters when they are in a serious relationship, nor do they talk about love non-stop.

tell that to my super-sappy husband he sends me a gushy postcard every week - despite the fact that we talk on the phone or on skype for, literally, hours every day. i envision the ladies who work in the post offices all gathered 'round, reading the cards and sighing and swooning.. hahahah i told my husband he's going to have to keep sending cards even after he moves here, because otherwise the post office ladies will be heartbroken that being said, i sent a scan of one of the less gushy notes and then scans of all the fronts of the cards to show ongoing communication without looking suspiciously over-the-top lovey-dovey.

 

[Crawley007]

i'm shocked at how you've got the nerve to put the blame on the applicants. what of those applicants who did their homework thoroughly and whose marriages were not fraud, yet were still rejected? i suggest you have a read through the spousal appeals thread on this forum.

appeals take time, and there's no justice in having to wait an additional 3-4 years before being reunited with your spouse because someone at an overseas VO was too hasty in rejecting your case. in the end, my point remains: VO officers can and do make wrong decisions based on presented facts. whether this happens 1% of the time or 0.01% of the time, i refuse to see separated couples as percentages. all i see are broken hearts, children growing up without their mother/father, and lost time that can never be recovered.

i don't have a solution because i'm just a sponsor and i'm not familiar with the inner workings of the sponsorship process. however, it would help if the government trusted us enough to give spousal TRVs. the americans do it, so why can't we? are canadians less trustworthy?

Hear, hear! 100% in agreement. I was so tempted to be the one to move just because the American system has its benefits, especially the Fiance Visa. In the end, we decided on Canada and I hope we don't grow to regret this!