The CRAZY CBSA officer thinks my wife is married already!!

[scylla]

We are Muslim. I am not sure if that has anything to do with it.
My wifes father thinks her uncle might have done something and tipped them off. Her uncle HATES Muslims and they do not talk.

Update for today we got in contact with a lawyer who will interview us and see our options, he suggested that we also get a document from the Korean Embassy that says that my wife is not married and there is no record of marriage, to which we did contact them and they passed us around a little but the end result is they do not provide such documentation and that its up for Foreigners (anyone but Koreans) to register their marriage abroad and the Korean government does not keep a record of a non-national. Since she has no residence there there is nothing to show for her information and only if she was a Korean national they would be able to help with such documentation.

With that being said...what do you guys think... What should we do here. If theres no legal way for them to tangibly prove that my wife is married in another country how can they threaten to deny our application? Is this something you can appeal?? 2 lawyers told us yes. This lawyer said "inland applicants can't appeal". However when I checked online (I do not understand legal terms well) it appeared that inland applicants can't appeal UNLESS its a spousal application? Can anyone let me know the 100% correct information regarding this.

As several of us have said, you can challenge the decision through the Judicial Review process if your application is refused. See:

https://www.canada.ca/en/immigratio...eps/refusal-options/federal-court-review.html

 

[k.h.p.]

We are Muslim. I am not sure if that has anything to do with it.
My wifes father thinks her uncle might have done something and tipped them off. Her uncle HATES Muslims and they do not talk.

Update for today we got in contact with a lawyer who will interview us and see our options, he suggested that we also get a document from the Korean Embassy that says that my wife is not married and there is no record of marriage, to which we did contact them and they passed us around a little but the end result is they do not provide such documentation and that its up for Foreigners (anyone but Koreans) to register their marriage abroad and the Korean government does not keep a record of a non-national. Since she has no residence there there is nothing to show for her information and only if she was a Korean national they would be able to help with such documentation.

With that being said...what do you guys think... What should we do here. If theres no legal way for them to tangibly prove that my wife is married in another country how can they threaten to deny our application? Is this something you can appeal?? 2 lawyers told us yes. This lawyer said "inland applicants can't appeal". However when I checked online (I do not understand legal terms well) it appeared that inland applicants can't appeal UNLESS its a spousal application? Can anyone let me know the 100% correct information regarding this.

Inland applicants cannot appeal, and can only apply for judicial review.

 

[Canada2020eh]

I don't know if it will hold any weight but along with anything else you are able to find you should get her to do a sworn statement attesting that she has never been married.

 

[Gabrielmorrow]

Following as this sounds like an interesting case I'm curious what caused csis to think that

 

[canuck78]

I don't know if it will hold any weight but along with anything else you are able to find you should get her to do a sworn statement attesting that she has never been married.

Wouldn't waste my time and money on a sworn statement. Sworn statements don't provide much proof. Depending on what proof they have that she is married, they'll need proof proving that isn't the case.

 

[GandiBaat]

We are Muslim. I am not sure if that has anything to do with it.

So am I though I think it has more to do with one's travel history and past residencies. I know one of my co-worker had more questioning and longer processing time because they lived in Syria for sometime.

My wifes father thinks her uncle might have done something and tipped them off. Her uncle HATES Muslims and they do not talk.

It can be one possibility.

Update for today we got in contact with a lawyer who will interview us and see our options, he suggested that we also get a document from the Korean Embassy that says that my wife is not married and there is no record of marriage, to which we did contact them and they passed us around a little but the end result is they do not provide such documentation and that its up for Foreigners (anyone but Koreans) to register their marriage abroad and the Korean government does not keep a record of a non-national. Since she has no residence there there is nothing to show for her information and only if she was a Korean national they would be able to help with such documentation.

IMHO, its not a totally bad thing per-say if you consider it. I will let your lawyer give an opinion on it though. It basically means Korean government cann't provide any such document meaning in future they cann't claim that you folks should have included such a document from Korea if the matter ends up in court.

With that being said...what do you guys think... What should we do here. If theres no legal way for them to tangibly prove that my wife is married in another country how can they threaten to deny our application?

You must understand this concept of burden of proof in law. Basically it means who needs to prove.

As much as I know in these immigration matters most of the burden of proof falls on us, the applicants.

The implication is this : We need to prove that our relationship to our spouse/partner (marriage / civil union) is genuine. If there are doubts or contradictions, we need to remove them or explain with strong evidence as why do they are there.

Its not the other way round round ie you claim that your marriage is genuine and they find the proof that it is not.

That said, the doubts raised by them need to be in limits of reason and a single applicant cann't be burdened extra to prove their marriage beyond what is usually done in other cases. For example, if 2-3 years of living together has been used to justify marriage in a significant number of cases then the VO should not be able to deny your application just because you don't have a child after 2-3 years. That won't stand a legal review.

That said, a past marriage can be a cause of considering your marriage as non-genuine. To doubt past marriage, they must have something to state that. Its the strength of that something which will determine how strong footing they have in challenging your application.

If say, their entire case is based on the fact that they have evidence that your wife had lived with her then boyfriend in past for a long time, that will be a weak evidence. Just living together is, IMHO, not enough to doubt your wife's marital status. A lawyer will need to establish that in past such type of doubts were set aside.

If there is some paper or government document where your wife has put her marital status as "married", then it will be a challenge and I don't know how it will be handled. Its best left to a strong lawyer.

Apply for GCMS notes as others have said. It might have indications why you were doubted in the first place.

Is this something you can appeal?? 2 lawyers told us yes. This lawyer said "inland applicants can't appeal". However when I checked online (I do not understand legal terms well) it appeared that inland applicants can't appeal UNLESS its a spousal application? Can anyone let me know the 100% correct information regarding this.

Please note that I am not a lawyer. This case is complex, in my common sense opinion. So take what I say with a lot of "salt" as they say. Also I think the more folks here can tell something more than I can do.

https://irb-cisr.gc.ca/en/filing-immigration-appeal/pages/index.aspx

The above is a website of government of canada. So likely information will be correct.

Besides, it references to IRPA, one of the two formal source of truth in Canadian immigration. The other being IRPR.

https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/i-2.5/page-12.html#:~:text=63 (1) A person who,national a permanent resident visa.

Right of Appeal
Marginal note:Competent jurisdiction

62 The Immigration Appeal Division is the competent Division of the Board with respect to appeals under this Division.

Marginal note:Right to appeal — visa refusal of family class

• 63 (1) A person who has filed in the prescribed manner an application to sponsor a foreign national as a member of the family class may appeal to the Immigration Appeal Division against a decision not to issue the foreign national a permanent resident visa.

Under this act, to me it seems that your WIFE (if she is a genuine sponsor) can approach IAD for an appeal against a decision by IRCC deny YOU the permanent visa.

Also subsection 64.3:

• Misrepresentation
  (3) No appeal may be made under subsection 63(1) in respect of a decision that was based on a finding of inadmissibility on the ground of misrepresentation, unless the foreign national in question is the sponsor’s spouse, common-law partner or child.

So I guess, your wife can appeal even if they are claiming that there was a misrepresentation in the application and on those ground they rejected it. From the PFL it appears that was not the case. They are challenging IF you can apply to family class PR because they believe your wife is married to another person.

To be honest its complex... Really really complex for an online forum to actually opine on this. The complexity is the challenge to the capability of your wife to sponsor as the doubt is that she is already married. Does that mean she is NOT the sponsor and hence can she even appeal? I don't know... honestly I don't know.


The struck out part is WRONG. Your PR class prevents an appeal.

 

[GandiBaat]

Inland applicants cannot appeal, and can only apply for judicial review.

Well, IMHO, the act is a bit complex in this case. I would let a professional handle it. It has many "unless" and "if" in it. Apparently, he cann't but his wife can appeal as a sponsor. Which makes things even more complex because IRCC is claiming that she cann't sponsor him under family because she was married to someone else before and there has not been an evidence of divorce. How will it be interpreted in appeal process? I don't know. Its not straight forward.

 

[armoured]

We are Muslim. I am not sure if that has anything to do with it.
My wifes father thinks her uncle might have done something and tipped them off. Her uncle HATES Muslims and they do not talk.

... that its up for Foreigners (anyone but Koreans) to register their marriage abroad and the Korean government does not keep a record of a non-national. Since she has no residence there there is nothing to show for her information and only if she was a Korean national they would be able to help with such documentation.

I would spend less time thinking about whether there is bias and whether IRCC/CBSA officers are 'crazy.' It's not productive.

The chances are very high that IRCC/CBSA have some concrete evidence that (they believe) shows your spouse was previously married. They would not put this as a reason for refusal without evidence - they know it will be subject to review.

And to be blunt, one of the possible or even likely outcomes is discovering your wife was in some relationship that she thought "didn't count" as marriage. Something in the history or available information indicates there was a marriage.

A few questions:
-were you previously married?
-is your spouse's ex a South Korean national?
-did she/they travel to other countries where 'traditional' marriages (eg religious) are considered legal? Partake in any betrothal / blessing ceremonies? (Particularly relevant if the ex was also a foreign national of another country - note the PFL refers to a divorce decree from South Korea, but does not specify where the marriage may have taken place)
-did your spouse live in any other countries?

Dig deep, it's unlikely that this is a pure error or fantasy from the officer - not impossible, but unlikely.

 

[caseyarnold]

My wife wrote to the local city hall where she lived before and asked them for some sort of document to say she is not married and that she is single. I am not sure if they will give such information via e-mail but its worth a try. Our case was transferred to a local immigration officer who has been the same one dealing with our file for about 11 months now. Just before March was our first interview but it was cancelled, and the phone interview was today. During the whole phone conversation the immigration officer never once mentioned marriage before, not even a hint. It was only right after we got off the phone she sent the email letter. It was shocking to my wife. She felt backstabbed. It all makes sense how the officer had been rude and odd towards my wife and I from the very beginning. She mentioned multiple times comments like "Your partner" (Instead of husband/wife) and she mentioned "Is your husband in the same house as you?" "You do live together right?" "Do you live together" "How come you listed your address as ____ in 2016 (way before we are married and before I moved here) . She also hardly looked at our file and kept asking questions that she should have answers to already and she then said "Well I guess I will have to look over the file again". She kept asking over and over again why we do not have kids, even though my wife had said before we will have kids once I have an immigration status and it is safe for us. She obviously does not want to have kids if its a chance I could be deported and jailed or we have no country to live in...

It is just so upsetting for my wife to have the thoughts of her ex boyfriend even mentioned. She does not want to remember him at all. It was a very traumatic time for her. This horrible news made her unable to even continue working this week because she can't focus on anything except for this. She is panicking so much I have never seen her like this. The thought of me getting deported scares her. She knows it would be the end of me.


We do not know how to order the notes. That would be nice to order them.

Why not just request a search of marriage records to the relevant body in the other country under her name to show that no marriage exists between her and her ex? That likely wouldn't cost too much and you could submit the resulting document as proof for your PFL.

 

[GandiBaat]

Why not just request a search of marriage records to the relevant body in the other country under her name to show that no marriage exists between her and her ex? That likely wouldn't cost too much and you could submit the resulting document as proof for your PFL.

Actually, good point.

https://www.canadainternational.gc....es_consulaires/marriage-mariage.aspx?lang=eng

Getting married in Korea
Introduction
If you wish to get married while in Korea you can obtain a civil marriage under Korean law. Marriage is a civil procedure in Korea, and performing a religious ceremony only does not constitute a legal marriage. For your marriage to be legally recognized in Korea and hence, legally recognized in Canada, you and your fiancé (e) must be free to marry, must report and register your marriage to the appropriate civil authorities.

You cannot get married at a Canadian embassy or consulate. Canadian consular officials do not perform marriage ceremonies, and they do not have to attend a marriage ceremony in a foreign country. Marriages that are legally performed in a foreign country are usually valid in Canada, and you do not need to register them in Canada. While consular officials are not authorized to perform marriage ceremonies, we can, however, notarize necessary documents for a civil marriage in Korea.

 

[armoured]

Actually, good point.

https://www.canadainternational.gc....es_consulaires/marriage-mariage.aspx?lang=eng

I don't know that this will solve their problem - although it does raise a question of whether the sponsor ever applied to the Canadian embassy for a 'no impediment to marriage' document or otherwise notarised documents needed for a marriage there. As far as I'm aware this is the only doc the Embassy might have a record of - no indication that Korea requires post-marriage registration at the Embassy or anything like that. (Separately it's a general issue for Canadians marrying abroad that since there's no central federal registry of marriages in Canada / provincial matter, our embassies can only provide a stamp on a sworn statement in front of a consular officer that basically says "I'm not married and there is no impediment to marriage that applies to me." But a separate discussion)

As I see it, the Sponsor/Applicant inquired of the Korean embassy whether they can get some kind of extract from the civil registry (or whatever equivalent in Korea). The answer was no based on the (supposed) marriage being between foreigners. I've no insight into that. May need a korean lawyer to confirm or attempt to get an extract if possible, or attest to fact that not possible - personally I wouldn't rely on these oral statements from the Korean Embassy in Canada as being sufficient to satisfy IRCC.

But it's also not clear whether the supposed marriage was in South Korea, just that a divorce document ("including from South Korea" i.e. divorce from other jurisdiction may be enough) is needed. Also not clear to me whether the Korean civil registry would necessarily have to record divorce documents (esp between foreigners). (Not clear whether the ex was Korean, either)

Very difficult to prove a negative without some details of where the supposed marriage might have been performed.

I'd also note it's still not clear that the relationship in Korea is what is being referred to by IRCC, although it does seem to likely be the case.

 

[GandiBaat]

I don't know that this will solve their problem - although it does raise a question of whether the sponsor ever applied to the Canadian embassy for a 'no impediment to marriage' document or otherwise notarised documents needed for a marriage there. As far as I'm aware this is the only doc the Embassy might have a record of - no indication that Korea requires post-marriage registration at the Embassy or anything like that. (Separately it's a general issue for Canadians marrying abroad that since there's no central federal registry of marriages in Canada / provincial matter, our embassies can only provide a stamp on a sworn statement in front of a consular officer that basically says "I'm not married and there is no impediment to marriage that applies to me." But a separate discussion)

The important part is the civil procedure point, IMHO. If there is no civil union/marriage as per law in South Korea; there is NO legal marriage in South Korea.

If these folks can produce a search record stating No such marriage in the name of <OP's Wife> registered in the SK's marriage registration system; there is NO legal marriage.

In contrast, had this been in India, it would have been more difficult because it recognizes marriage by purely religious ceremony. In SK, unless you do the civil union procedure, you are not legally married.

I think, it will come down to engaging a law-firm or somethign similar in SK to do an extensive search about someone registering a marriage under same name and date of birth as OP's wife. If that search comes out empty, then there was no marriage in SK. This is because marriage is a civil procedure in SK -- similar to a property deed. What they need is a case search in SK, IMHO. Besides, finding how IRCC is picking up the marriage in the first place.

PS : I have no legal training and above is purely a common sense based observation.

I'd also note it's still not clear that the relationship in Korea is what is being referred to by IRCC, although it does seem to likely be the case.

The PFL says
"
∙ Please provide Original Full divorce decree documents (if either you or your spouse have been previously married); in any country including South Korea. "

 

[GandiBaat]

As I see it, the Sponsor/Applicant inquired of the Korean embassy whether they can get some kind of extract from the civil registry (or whatever equivalent in Korea). The answer was no based on the (supposed) marriage being between foreigners.

Thats actually interesting... Marriages involving both the parties being foreigners should be like what embassy has told... IF she was married to a SK national, that should leave some trace in their registry OR no such marriage happened legally.

 

[armoured]

The PFL says
"
∙ Please provide Original Full divorce decree documents (if either you or your spouse have been previously married); in any country including South Korea. "

Thats actually interesting... Marriages involving both the parties being civilians should be like what embassy has told... IF she was married to a SK national, that should leave some trace in their registry OR no such marriage happened legally.

I agree overall - I'm just noting that it only refers to divorce decree from SK (without saying it must be South Korea, just an implication that is the case). So not clear where they think the marriage took place. And not clear it refers to a south korean national. Just that there should have been a divorce, possibly in korea.

And as noted possible a religious or other marriage was carried out in some third country, that just happened to involve individuals who at some point resided in korea.

 

[GandiBaat]

I agree overall - I'm just noting that it only refers to divorce decree from SK (without saying it must be South Korea, just an implication that is the case). So not clear where they think the marriage took place. And not clear it refers to a south korean national. Just that there should have been a divorce, possibly in korea.

And as noted possible a religious or other marriage was carried out in some third country, that just happened to involve individuals who at some point resided in korea.

I believe OP said that they were trying to use a SK health card which will include name of a SK national as husband if she were married to one, Thats why I assumed that ex was a SK national.