The Actual Possibility of Immigrating

[AlekseyKimKIS]

Hello, everyone, my name is Alex Kim, hailing from South Korea.
I've wanted to immigrate to Canada for a long time, and this is my first time every posting in the forum.
I had some questions regarding the Express Entry and immigration methods.

First off, I'm a 10th grader currently, and plan to go to college in Canada.
Naturally I thought of the CEC method, but then I realized because Canada changed it's laws, I now have to wait for 1~2 years after working full time, inside the Express Entry Pool, and if I don't get selected...That means I lose everything.
Same thing goes for other methods I might use (FSWP etc...), which now means I need an LMO and everything.

So I'm just wondering about the ACTUAL possibility of using CEC or FSWP to immigrate to Canada, because it seems like the chances are slim.
And, what would be a better method for a college graduate in Canada? FSWP or CEC? Or are there other methods?

This is just a minor question, but South Korea requires all men to serve in the military for around 2 years, and I plan not to attend. Problem is that after 25 I can't renew my passport because I haven't served yet. I'm just wondering if it's possible to apply for a green card with an expired passport if I am selected from the Express Entry. (On the condition that I never stayed in Canada illegally)

Thank you!
~Alex

 

[purplesnow]

if you go to college here, you'd then be eligible to apply for a post grad working permit which would give you a couple of years to build up the skilled work experience required to enter the express entry pool. Assuming the rules regarding PGWP's stay the same as they are now for when you'd be finished university.

Canada doesn't have green cards. that's America.
HOWEVER - for ALL immigration and visa applications, you need a valid passport. Expired ones will not be accepted.

 

[bellaluna]

"Losing everything" is too dramatic. It's possible to apply for immigration several times and through several avenues if you don't get it the first time.
Kudos to you for planning your future this early. Although to be honest, Canadian immigration laws also change pretty often, so we may not be too sure if the same rules now will apply by the time you graduate or start working. It could be easier, it could be harder.
But assuming the current system is more or less similar several years from now, you can also look into provincial nomination programs (PNPs) of the province where you plan to go to school, as there may be immigration paths for graduates.

 

[dobes]

Hello, everyone, my name is Alex Kim, hailing from South Korea.
I've wanted to immigrate to Canada for a long time, and this is my first time every posting in the forum.
I had some questions regarding the Express Entry and immigration methods.

First off, I'm a 10th grader currently, and plan to go to college in Canada.
Naturally I thought of the CEC method, but then I realized because Canada changed it's laws, I now have to wait for 1~2 years after working full time, inside the Express Entry Pool, and if I don't get selected...That means I lose everything.
Same thing goes for other methods I might use (FSWP etc...), which now means I need an LMO and everything.

So I'm just wondering about the ACTUAL possibility of using CEC or FSWP to immigrate to Canada, because it seems like the chances are slim.
And, what would be a better method for a college graduate in Canada? FSWP or CEC? Or are there other methods?

This is just a minor question, but South Korea requires all men to serve in the military for around 2 years, and I plan not to attend. Problem is that after 25 I can't renew my passport because I haven't served yet. I'm just wondering if it's possible to apply for a green card with an expired passport if I am selected from the Express Entry. (On the condition that I never stayed in Canada illegally)

Thank you!
~Alex

Come to Canada for university first, and see if it is everything you want it to be. If it is, a post-graduate work permit (PGWP) following graduation will allow you to work for 3 years in Canada, making you eligible for CEC. Even if you change your mind about going back to South Korea to fulfill your military obligations and keep your passport, you will still be able to apply for PR from there, using your Canadian experience, and, perhaps, have Canadian permanent residence waiting for you on your release.

Or if you can perform your military service before starting university or graduate school in Canada, it might be wiser to get it out of the way. One thing you can't do is be in another country without a passport!

Good luck to you! If you plan carefully and have some patience, you have an excellent chance of reaching your dream.

 

[AlekseyKimKIS]

if you go to college here, you'd then be eligible to apply for a post grad working permit which would give you a couple of years to build up the skilled work experience required to enter the express entry pool. Assuming the rules regarding PGWP's stay the same as they are now for when you'd be finished university.

Canada doesn't have green cards. that's America.
HOWEVER - for ALL immigration and visa applications, you need a valid passport. Expired ones will not be accepted.

Thanks for your reply, Purplesnow.
I did hear about the working permits, hopefully those help me...

So, what if I am in a situation where I can no longer renew my passport because the embassy won't let me? Do I need to give up? I did hear about someone in America who received his green card just fine although he had a passport that expired nearly 3 years ago...

 

[AlekseyKimKIS]

Come to Canada for university first, and see if it is everything you want it to be. If it is, a post-graduate work permit (PGWP) following graduation will allow you to work for 3 years in Canada, making you eligible for CEC. Even if you change your mind about going back to South Korea to fulfill your military obligations and keep your passport, you will still be able to apply for PR from there, using your Canadian experience, and, perhaps, have Canadian permanent residence waiting for you on your release.

Or if you can perform your military service before starting university or graduate school in Canada, it might be wiser to get it out of the way. One thing you can't do is be in another country without a passport!

Good luck to you! If you plan carefully and have some patience, you have an excellent chance of reaching your dream.

Thank you for your reply, Dobes!
But I heard from a lot of people that after EE was made in effect, FSWP and the CEC are practically the same now, and they both take the same time.

Well, I can't serve before going to college because I'm at an international school where they make us apply for college...And we have to attend.
I could simply stop studying for a while to finish it, but it's not because I'm lazy, it's because there's a high chance you could get killed there.
My parents are worried as well, and honestly, I don't want to see them cry. It just makes me feel like a bad person. Anyways, that's a bit personal.

There's no problem with immigrating without completing my military service, however the problem comes because I can only renew my passport once a year after I graduate from college. I am able to keep my passport till I am 25 years old, however, I'm sure I can't immigrate by that time.
I'm guessing it'll at least take me till when I'm 27...

So, I'm just wondering, if I cannot renew my passport, I can't apply for a green card? Some people said it's fine.

 

[AlekseyKimKIS]

"Losing everything" is too dramatic. It's possible to apply for immigration several times and through several avenues if you don't get it the first time.
Kudos to you for planning your future this early. Although to be honest, Canadian immigration laws also change pretty often, so we may not be too sure if the same rules now will apply by the time you graduate or start working. It could be easier, it could be harder.
But assuming the current system is more or less similar several years from now, you can also look into provincial nomination programs (PNPs) of the province where you plan to go to school, as there may be immigration paths for graduates.

Thank you for your reply, Bella.
It's just that after the EE was introduced it became super difficult to immigrate to Canada...
Just a question about the EE, if you meet the requirements for it, do you still need to get selected?
Or if you meet the requirements, are you allowed to apply for a green card?

 

[AlekseyKimKIS]

Come to Canada for university first, and see if it is everything you want it to be. If it is, a post-graduate work permit (PGWP) following graduation will allow you to work for 3 years in Canada, making you eligible for CEC. Even if you change your mind about going back to South Korea to fulfill your military obligations and keep your passport, you will still be able to apply for PR from there, using your Canadian experience, and, perhaps, have Canadian permanent residence waiting for you on your release.

Or if you can perform your military service before starting university or graduate school in Canada, it might be wiser to get it out of the way. One thing you can't do is be in another country without a passport!

Good luck to you! If you plan carefully and have some patience, you have an excellent chance of reaching your dream.

Sorry, can I ask another question?
I really thank everyone who answered me, you guys are really helping me out here.
My passport is valid through 2025.12.31, that's how long the Korean government allows me to renew my passport without serving.
So I have two plans in mind:

2018. Sep.- Start Attend 2-Year College
2020. Jun- Graduation
2020. July- Receiving Work Permit
2021. October/November- Finishing 1-year full time
2021~2023- Waiting in line for EE.
2024~2025- Applying for a PR

(Seems like a reasonable plan to me, but the problem is that I don't think it's possible to get selected through EE with only a 2-year college record, so had another plan in mind.)

2018. Sep- Start 4-Year BD Plan
2023. Jun- Graduation (I'm guessing it'll take me around 5 years to graduate)
2023. July- Receiving Work Permit
2024. Oct/Nov- Finishing 1-year full time
2024~2025- EE Waiting
2025- Applying for a PR

(I could get a PR with this method, but I'm worried my passport will expire...)

Is there any way I can apply for a PR if I cannot renew my passport?

 

[purplesnow]

Thanks for your reply, Purplesnow.
I did hear about the working permits, hopefully those help me...

So, what if I am in a situation where I can no longer renew my passport because the embassy won't let me? Do I need to give up? I did hear about someone in America who received his green card just fine although he had a passport that expired nearly 3 years ago...

honestly, without a valid passport it'll be pretty much impossible.

 

[ybjianada]

I find this post rather fascinating. First, your level of English as evidenced by the language in your posting, is far beyond what can be expected from an average S Korean high schooler. But since you are studying in an international school, that is expected after all. Second, the fact that you are thinking about immigration at such a young age, have formulated some plans, and have considered some potential obstacles shows some foresight.

My general advice is this: You never know whether/how Canadian's immigration policy will change 6-8 years from now. While I do not think Canada will close its doors, it is likely that immigration will become increasingly more difficult over the years. However, Canada, and indeed any other immigration countries will always embrace highly skilled immigrants. Hence, what you can do now is to formulate a plan to pursue your university education that would arm you with specialized, technical, and marketable skills that Canadian students in general lack. In other words, study a major that is/will always be in high demand for Canada's economy. This way, you will always stand a good chance even though the immigration policy might become tighter 6-8 years from now. This I believe is the most important point. Not only does it give you a good livelihood, but it also provides global mobility if you need it.

Onto your specific concerns regarding compulsory military service. First, if you will have acquired a highly specialized and marketable degree from a Canadian university (let's say, Medicine), what is 2 years wait for you? With a medical degree and some working experience, you will be able to immigrate after the 2 years' service. Second, if let's say, you opt not to fulfill this obligation, and thus are not able to renew your passport in year 2025, perhaps you can provide an explanation to Canadian immigration on the grounds of 'Conscientious Objector'. They might be able to accept your application without a valid passport in that circumstance. But you will need to consult a Canadian lawyer in this case. Do not take my word for it. Generally, not having a valid passport in and of itself is NOT an impediment to applying for immigration facilities. It is the nature of the circumstances that prevent you from obtaining a renewed passport from your home country that matter to immigration officers. Let me give you an example – refugees almost never present a passport, or any kind of identity documents, and yet they have no problems receiving PRs in many countries.

Lastly, if you are still a minor, is it possible to look into whether your parents are eligible for Canadian immigration now? If it is possible, then, this would be the fastest way to get out of South Korea for good

 

[chad_80]

Good to see that you are planning your future so early.

I completely agree with

is it possible to look into whether your parents are eligible for Canadian immigration now? If it is possible, then, this would be the fastest way to get out of South Korea for good

Even if you are manage to apply for a PR by the time you are 25, it doesn't make sure that you get the citizenship (which I believe is your final goal as you don't plan to renew your S. Korean passport) by the time your passport expires. So I guess if your parents can apply for a PR now, you have a very high chance of skipping the military service and doing everything legally.

 

[AlekseyKimKIS]

I find this post rather fascinating. First, your level of English as evidenced by the language in your posting, is far beyond what can be expected from an average S Korean high schooler. But since you are studying in an international school, that is expected after all. Second, the fact that you are thinking about immigration at such a young age, have formulated some plans, and have considered some potential obstacles shows some foresight.

My general advice is this: You never know whether/how Canadian's immigration policy will change 6-8 years from now. While I do not think Canada will close its doors, it is likely that immigration will become increasingly more difficult over the years. However, Canada, and indeed any other immigration countries will always embrace highly skilled immigrants. Hence, what you can do now is to formulate a plan to pursue your university education that would arm you with specialized, technical, and marketable skills that Canadian students in general lack. In other words, study a major that is/will always be in high demand for Canada's economy. This way, you will always stand a good chance even though the immigration policy might become tighter 6-8 years from now. This I believe is the most important point. Not only does it give you a good livelihood, but it also provides global mobility if you need it.

Onto your specific concerns regarding compulsory military service. First, if you will have acquired a highly specialized and marketable degree from a Canadian university (let's say, Medicine), what is 2 years wait for you? With a medical degree and some working experience, you will be able to immigrate after the 2 years' service. Second, if let's say, you opt not to fulfill this obligation, and thus are not able to renew your passport in year 2025, perhaps you can provide an explanation to Canadian immigration on the grounds of 'Conscientious Objector'. They might be able to accept your application without a valid passport in that circumstance. But you will need to consult a Canadian lawyer in this case. Do not take my word for it. Generally, not having a valid passport in and of itself is NOT an impediment to applying for immigration facilities. It is the nature of the circumstances that prevent you from obtaining a renewed passport from your home country that matter to immigration officers. Let me give you an example – refugees almost never present a passport, or any kind of identity documents, and yet they have no problems receiving PRs in many countries.

Lastly, if you are still a minor, is it possible to look into whether your parents are eligible for Canadian immigration now? If it is possible, then, this would be the fastest way to get out of South Korea for good

Thank you for your reply!

I did hear from another person who successfully immigrated through the FSWP program that the worse the Canadian economy is, the more immigrants they will accept, and how the EE program might be abolished by the time I'm eligible to apply for a PR. (Whether that makes it easier or harder...Is totally unknown). He did give me some advice about how it's near impossible to find jobs in Vancouver, and suggests that I look towards the countryside, where they need more people. I'd have to look into it...But it seems that the most needed jobs (at the current moment) are computer engineers/ software developers/ doctors/ etc...Which might cause some problems...

I suppose I can pass on as a Conscientious Objector. Actually doesn't seem like too bad of a possibility...
I do know a lot of religious people (particularly Jehovah's) in S.K object to being drafted because their religion doesn't allow it.
I think the bigger problem is getting hired, actually...

Speaking of immigration, my aunt (AKA My mother's sister) is a Canadian PR holder, and her husband and two daughters are all Canadian citizens. I'm not sure if you can sponsor your sibling and their family...Is that possible?
I think that would like a 'last resort' for me to immigrate to Canada...

Anyways, thanks for your time!

 

[ybjianada]

Not exactly. A counterexample is that refugees and asylum seekers may be granted PR without having to present valid passports.

To work around this issue, I think his best bet is to argue on the basis of the status of 'Conscientious Objector'. If the immigration officer is convinced, they should accept an expired passport with his PR application.

'A conscientious objector is an "individual who has claimed the right to refuse to perform military service"[1] on the grounds of freedom of thought, conscience, and/or religion.[2] In general, conscientious objector status is only considered in the context of military conscription and is not applicable to volunteer military forces.'

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conscientious_objector#Canada

This is predicated on 2 assumptions:
1) Canadian law supports the status of Conscientious Objector
2) S Korean law does not recognize the status of Conscientious Objector and does not make provisions (in terms of alternative forms of service) for such people.


If the above works, and the young man receives PR status without a valid passport, the inconvenience would be that he cannot travel outside Canada on his Korean passport. He has to apply for a travel document with Canadian Immigration, if he wishes to travel outside Canada, until he obtains Canadian citizenship.

honestly, without a valid passport it'll be pretty much impossible.

 

[AlekseyKimKIS]

Good to see that you are planning your future so early.

I completely agree with
Even if you are manage to apply for a PR by the time you are 25, it doesn't make sure that you get the citizenship (which I believe is your final goal as you don't plan to renew your S. Korean passport) by the time your passport expires. So I guess if your parents can apply for a PR now, you have a very high chance of skipping the military service and doing everything legally.

Thank you for your reply, Chad!

My first goal is earning a PR. Then I can work and live in Canada...And PR holders are not required to go to the military, unless they set up a business in Korea, or stay in Korea for more than 6 months. And after I pass the age of 37, I am not required to serve anymore.

There actually was a story of a guy who moved to the US for academic purposes before he was drafted...And he somehow became a Canadian citizen in 10 years and returned to Korea....And was subsequently deported. Although that's a very extreme case.

 

[AlekseyKimKIS]

[

Not exactly. A counterexample is that refugees and asylum seekers may be granted PR without having to present valid passports.

To work around this issue, I think his best bet is to argue on the basis of the status of 'Conscientious Objector'. If the immigration officer is convinced, they should accept an expired passport with his PR application.

'A conscientious objector is an "individual who has claimed the right to refuse to perform military service"[1] on the grounds of freedom of thought, conscience, and/or religion.[2] In general, conscientious objector status is only considered in the context of military conscription and is not applicable to volunteer military forces.'

This is predicated on 2 assumptions:
1) Canadian law supports the status of Conscientious Objector
2) S Korean law does not recognize the status of Conscientious Objector and does not make provisions (in terms of alternative forms of service) for such people.


If the above works, and the young man receives PR status without a valid passport, the inconvenience would be that he cannot travel outside Canada on his Korean passport. He has to apply for a travel document with Canadian Immigration, if he wishes to travel outside Canada, until he obtains Canadian citizenship.

Thank You For Your Reply! (Again)

Not sure if Canadian law supports the status of a Conscientious Objector...But I do know S.K does not recognize them. If you object to military service you instead are put in federal prison for...3 years, I believe. I'm not too sure. People have been asking the government for other ways of service, however, the conservative wing of Koreans are strongly against it...And most of the general public as well.

I actually posted this question on a Korean Q and A site, and I was riddled with responses such as 'Nobody wants you here, please leave Korea and earn a US citizenship immediately" and "What are we going to do about the future of our nation???"...

I don't have any plans to return or live in Korea after earning a PR, so I'm guessing that won't be a problem. They'll probably deport me anyways.

Thank you for this, you're really giving me hope!