Talk me off the cliff, or encourage me, pick your poison

[saria1]

I sent my application for a citizenship certificate in June 2011 and got the certificate in December of that same year - pretty quick processing. My application was under the 2009 (my father had naturalized in the US before I was born, so the 2009 law reinstated his Canadian citizenship was retroactively reinstated, and mine was retroactively granted). There were no requests for additional information for the citizenship certificate, and I remember it being pretty straightforward: my father's birth certificate (his proof of Canadian citizenship as well as proof of my being the first generation born outside of Canada, my birth certificate with his name listed as my father, and - of course - $75.

We did my family's PR application the following September. We did get follow-up requests from CPP-OTT for the PR application: proof of intent to reside in Canada (which we'd already sent), copies of the CSQs from Québec (which we'd already sent), and photos (which they'd apparently lost) - you might guess that I was not happy to receive that request! At the time, based on other applications in this forum, our application took about 5 months longer in total (11.5 months), and I think that the fact that I'd received my citizenship under the 2009 law perhaps resulted in extra scrutiny, though I really can't know for sure.

Now we're waiting for CIC (again!), but this time for the kids' citizenship applications. As children of a Canadian citizen, they only need to land as PRs to be eligible to apply for citizenship - no need to wait for a few years before applying. The processing time for citizenship grants is 2 years, and we've just past the 10 month mark.

I will say that despite the bureaucratic hassles, moving north from the US was totally worth it, and we're much happier up in Canada. Canadians are surprised when you say that Canada is better than the US (for Canadians the grass being greener - and the shopping being cheaper - to the south), but it's really better north of the border. Life is more relaxed, work-life balance is better, people are nicer, schools are better, university is much more affordable (one of our biggest reasons for immigrating here). It's absolutely worth the effort, and when it's done, you'll probably be very happy you made the move.

That sounds as if it was all within reasonable time limits, similar to the time frames I was hoping ours would be completed. To be honest, I don't know where the 24 months number is coming from. It makes me wonder if she was confused and mistook my application as a grant of citizenship and not proof of citizenship. If that is the case, then that makes sense. When I spoke with CIC I was told 6 months. I've also read so many posts here where people spoke with CIC on several occasions and obtained completely different, contradictory information each time they called.

We are all looking forward to making the move, all for the reasons you've listed. My husband is the type a seed needs to planted and nourished. It took quite a while to get him onboard, and I have to handle it with white gloves so as not to spook him away. I will admit, I'm a little surprised at the kickback we're getting from my in-laws. You would think we were up and moving to Hong Kong and not BC. I have been grilled by both my FIL and BIL and the reasons I have listed, almost identical to yours, were not good enough for them. It shocked me on every level. If those aren't good enough reasons, then to be honest, there will be no good reason to satisfy me taking their son 3000 miles away. Well, no, for some reason they are ok with Seattle, something about crossing the border into Canada isn't sitting well with them...

I am curious about you applying for your kids citizenship. I know children of citizens qualify for citizenship as soon as they land. But do they also have to wait the entire 24 months too? When we land, it won't be during the moving process. We will land a few months before the move. I'm debating as to whether I will submit my son's citizenship application while we're selling our home and packing to move across the border, just to get that ball rolling. I don't see anything on the CIC site that says for children the application has to be made inside of Canada.

Is that your children's citizenship timelines you have posted? I'll be watching it to see if the citizenship for your children is any faster than the average grant of citizenship.

 

[IvanP]

That sounds as if it was all within reasonable time limits, similar to the time frames I was hoping ours would be completed. To be honest, I don't know where the 24 months number is coming from. It makes me wonder if she was confused and mistook my application as a grant of citizenship and not proof of citizenship. If that is the case, then that makes sense. When I spoke with CIC I was told 6 months. I've also read so many posts here where people spoke with CIC on several occasions and obtained completely different, contradictory information each time they called.

We are all looking forward to making the move, all for the reasons you've listed. My husband is the type a seed needs to planted and nourished. It took quite a while to get him onboard, and I have to handle it with white gloves so as not to spook him away. I will admit, I'm a little surprised at the kickback we're getting from my in-laws. You would think we were up and moving to Hong Kong and not BC. I have been grilled by both my FIL and BIL and the reasons I have listed, almost identical to yours, were not good enough for them. It shocked me on every level. If those aren't good enough reasons, then to be honest, there will be no good reason to satisfy me taking their son 3000 miles away. Well, no, for some reason they are ok with Seattle, something about crossing the border into Canada isn't sitting well with them...

I am curious about you applying for your kids citizenship. I know children of citizens qualify for citizenship as soon as they land. But do they also have to wait the entire 24 months too? When we land, it won't be during the moving process. We will land a few months before the move. I'm debating as to whether I will submit my son's citizenship application while we're selling our home and packing to move across the border, just to get that ball rolling. I don't see anything on the CIC site that says for children the application has to be made inside of Canada.

Is that your children's citizenship timelines you have posted? I'll be watching it to see if the citizenship for your children is any faster than the average grant of citizenship.

For proof of citizenship, the current processing time is 6 months (for 80% of cases - that's standard language for all of their processing times). Usually what happens is that a bunch of cases are decided in a shorter period (probably 4-5 months for citizenship certificates, though you'd have to poke around to find a spreadsheet on this forum to know for sure), and then there are a few unlucky souls whose docs get lost, or who get a careless/incompetent/mean agent, or who actually need to provide additional information, and those applications take longer than the published time. http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/information/times/canada/certif-processing.asp

For PR applications from the US, at the time we applied, the processing time was 11 months but most people got theirs within 6-7 months. By the time ours came through, the processing time (due to Harper's CIC efficiency reforms, I guess?) had stretched to 13 months, but there were still lots of people getting their PR in half that time. It just takes that long to get to 80%. I think it's 16 months for 80% now, but you're still going to have a bunch of people getting theirs in a much shorter time (find a PR forum from about 8 months ago and look for a spreadsheet to see how long the processing times are for the simple, clean applications - I would guess you'll find a fair number of people getting PR in 7 months).

There's nothing that says that kids applying for citizenship have a different processing time, so 24 months for your child's citizenship should be assumed to be the processing time after you have applied, and your son may have to wait another year or two for his citizenship application to be processed and citizenship to be granted after landing as a PR (though I've seen cases done in 7 or 8 months, but none of them have been child-only to my knowledge). And yes, the December 2013 date on my profile is for my kids' citizenship applications. They are not old enough to need to do the exam or oath, which we're hoping will make the process faster, but we're still waiting! There's no hurry, really, because they can travel basically anywhere but Cuba on their US passports, but I'm just a little bit OCD, so I check their application status several times a day...

My parents weren't all that happy that we moved up here, but not because it's Canada, just because it's 500 miles instead of 80. We see them just as often, it's just more of an effort. Your in-laws might find they like BC once they go there...

Good luck!

 

[saria1]

For proof of citizenship, the current processing time is 6 months (for 80% of cases - that's standard language for all of their processing times). Usually what happens is that a bunch of cases are decided in a shorter period (probably 4-5 months for citizenship certificates, though you'd have to poke around to find a spreadsheet on this forum to know for sure), and then there are a few unlucky souls whose docs get lost, or who get a careless/incompetent/mean agent, or who actually need to provide additional information, and those applications take longer than the published time. http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/information/times/canada/certif-processing.asp

For PR applications from the US, at the time we applied, the processing time was 11 months but most people got theirs within 6-7 months. By the time ours came through, the processing time (due to Harper's CIC efficiency reforms, I guess?) had stretched to 13 months, but there were still lots of people getting their PR in half that time. It just takes that long to get to 80%. I think it's 16 months for 80% now, but you're still going to have a bunch of people getting theirs in a much shorter time (find a PR forum from about 8 months ago and look for a spreadsheet to see how long the processing times are for the simple, clean applications - I would guess you'll find a fair number of people getting PR in 7 months).

There's nothing that says that kids applying for citizenship have a different processing time, so 24 months for your child's citizenship should be assumed to be the processing time after you have applied, and your son may have to wait another year or two for his citizenship application to be processed and citizenship to be granted after landing as a PR (though I've seen cases done in 7 or 8 months, but none of them have been child-only to my knowledge). And yes, the December 2013 date on my profile is for my kids' citizenship applications. They are not old enough to need to do the exam or oath, which we're hoping will make the process faster, but we're still waiting! There's no hurry, really, because they can travel basically anywhere but Cuba on their US passports, but I'm just a little bit OCD, so I check their application status several times a day...

My parents weren't all that happy that we moved up here, but not because it's Canada, just because it's 500 miles instead of 80. We see them just as often, it's just more of an effort. Your in-laws might find they like BC once they go there...

Good luck!

I'm OCD too. I mull over the PR paperwork weekly continually refining it and adding more proof of intent to move to Canada. I also check my status many times a day.

My son will also be too young to test or take the oath. I think I will submit his citizenship application from the US once he lands. By the time they're ready to grant him citizenship, he'll be living in Canada and established there. There also is nothing that says I can't submit his application from another country after he gets is PR status. It only says his status needs to be maintained, and he can maintain that just by living with his Canadian citizen mother. Also, the app will be made before he's been out of the country for 6 months. So that part of the application won't need to be addressed.

This process is frustrating, especially since I have a spouse who has a hard time making plans 1 month out, let alone 2, 3 or 4 yrs out. The five year plan concept is like speaking Greek to him

 

[alphazip]

I'm OCD too. I mull over the PR paperwork weekly continually refining it and adding more proof of intent to move to Canada. I also check my status many times a day.

My son will also be too young to test or take the oath. I think I will submit his citizenship application from the US once he lands. By the time they're ready to grant him citizenship, he'll be living in Canada and established there. There also is nothing that says I can't submit his application from another country after he gets is PR status. It only says his status needs to be maintained, and he can maintain that just by living with his Canadian citizen mother. Also, the app will be made before he's been out of the country for 6 months. So that part of the application won't need to be addressed.

This process is frustrating, especially since I have a spouse who has a hard time making plans 1 month out, let alone 2, 3 or 4 yrs out. The five year plan concept is like speaking Greek to him

With regard to applying for citizenship for your son (after landing) from outside Canada, your reasoning seems to be sound. However, I don't recall ever seeing anything definitive about that issue. Have you found anything online that says it's possible, or have you checked with CIC (not that a Call Centre agent would probably know)? Of course, if you apply using a Canadian address (which you could change after moving to Canada), I guess the issue would never come up.

 

[saria1]

With regard to applying for citizenship for your son (after landing) from outside Canada, your reasoning seems to be sound. However, I don't recall ever seeing anything definitive about that issue. Have you found anything online that says it's possible, or have you checked with CIC (not that a Call Centre agent would probably know)? Of course, if you apply using a Canadian address (which you could change after moving to Canada), I guess the issue would never come up.

I will have a Canadian address to have their PR cards sent to, which in the manuals clearly says newly landed PR's can use a temporary address to receive the PR cards. Renewals cannot. As for my sons citizenship application, I don't want it to be misrepresented. I would never want him to face losing his citizenship because his mum made a stupid decision to start the process sooner.

I think once their COPR arrives and they're preparing to land, I may just email the Minister of Immigration and let one of his highly educated underpaid interns take a shot at the answer. Because there is nothing laid out whether what I'm wanting to do is allowed or not allowed. I would rather have the Minister answer the email and attach that email with the application so if my son does get assigned a mean CIC officer, who chooses to question it, the answer will be right there from his/her higher superior. ;D

 

[IvanP]

I will have a Canadian address to have their PR cards sent to, which in the manuals clearly says newly landed PR's can use a temporary address to receive the PR cards. Renewals cannot. As for my sons citizenship application, I don't want it to be misrepresented. I would never want him to face losing his citizenship because his mum made a stupid decision to start the process sooner.

I think once their COPR arrives and they're preparing to land, I may just email the Minister of Immigration and let one of his highly educated underpaid interns take a shot at the answer. Because there is nothing laid out whether what I'm wanting to do is allowed or not allowed. I would rather have the Minister answer the email and attach that email with the application so if my son does get assigned a mean CIC officer, who chooses to question it, the answer will be right there from his/her higher superior. ;D

Unless you have an urgent need for a Canadian passport for him, I'd just wait until you've moved. Not because the application would be denied (I don't believe there is any reason why your son's application would be rejected since he would be a landed immigrant and son of a Canadian, and I haven't seen a rule that says you can't make that application from abroad), but because any irregularity in his application would make it more likely that the application would be subjected to greater scrutiny and maybe sent to a superior for review. That extra layer of review could make the application processing time even longer than waiting until he is not just legally a PR, but actually physically residing in Canada.

Moreover, I can't think of any benefits accruing to minor citizens (other than the passport) that would not accrue to permanent residents. As a PR you're eligible to attend school, get provincial health insurance, even get RESP matches. I understand the sense of urgency to get started because these things take forever, and citizenship is permanent and (mostly) irrevocable, but I'm not sure pushing the boundaries is going to get you anything more - in real terms - than PR.