Suggestion please: Canada or India (Imp)

[Hansdza]

SecularFirst is right. You should think about it again and again. Immigration is not for everybody. You have to have strong reasons to do it. Otherwise, what's the point to invest so much time, money and effort (pain) to do so. Just live a happy life.

For OP.. at least get your Canadian passport first. It will make yourlife easier later if you want to change your mind.

 

[raghubedi2004]

Hi Sheena,

I can very much relate to your situation here and completly understand your point of view because i think your situation and mine would be similar one.
I am earning almost same salary as you were in India. Residing in New Delhi right now (South-Delhi to be precise - our so-called "posh" colony) with my wife (she is also working) and 4-year old daughter.
Our PR application is in progress, and we are very much aware of all the difficulties which are in store for us once we move to Canada (of which you have mentioned almost all).
Well, when I was going through your post, I somehow felt that I need to reply to this as it seems like my situation only. And you know, me and my wife had many conversations between us comparing all the facilities we enjoy here in India than with what hardships we might have to face.
But here I want to list down the biggest factors for which we have made our mind to relocate :-
1. Security : This is the biggest factor of all. Whatever you do, the way people take law in their hand here is really scary. We are really worried about the future of our daughter considering the news which we get to read in papers on almost daily basis. I know you can debate on this that if we take extra-precautions and steps to ensure our safety, its still fine and probability of being victimised is very-very less.. But even if its less, why take a chance.
2. Healthy environment : here comes healthy food, healthy air, respectable society (in general), importance of each individual's life.
3. Education : In India Education is a rat-race. Each parent is desperate enough to get his/her child admitted into a top school and then expect him/her to score 80 or 90 percent marks. Little emphasis on extra-curricular activites or other things such as participation in debates/discussions/art/sports. If there is then your study gets a hit. In canada, this social pressure isnt there.
4. Health : Compare the Govt hospitals in Canada with tha in India. you will get the answer. You said the waiting period in Canada is 12 months. I bet it wont be less if God forbid, you have to go and get admitted to AIIMS.
5. Population : This is the root cause of all the small-large issues in the society.

To me money definitly is very important, but we feel there are other issues more which are important than money.
So we think that we might not make same money initially in Canada, but may be with time, this factor also will die.

Hope this helps.

Withj best Regards.

 

[adilkhan31]

Dear OP,
Good job at explicitly stating your fears. We all have gone through such emotions at some point of our immigration journey. I would also like to virtually pat the backs of some guys who have given very reasonable and sane advice on this subject.

At the risk of sounding like a prick, I will start by crunching some numbers to present by case for choosing to immigrate. I make CAD 200,000 (tax free) a year working in Middle East. We rent a beautiful sea facing apartment, travel to Europe twice a year for vacation with family, our son goes to the best nursery in town and we have a full time maid working at home. Now what my parents term as brain dead syndrome, I am going to leave all that and move to Canada to earn CAD 80,000 a year (before Tax) if I am very lucky.

The question I get asked by most is “why on Earth would you do that”. Like someone said earlier, you ruin your present to make sure your children have it better in future. When I first moved out of India to study in Australia back in 2006, I stood outside Sydney Airport in the middle of the night with tears in my eyes. I asked myself the same question which you are asking now. I cursed myself for leaving the comfort of home, the warmth of having parents and family around you. I don’t want my son to be that guy who was not sure about what lies ahead.

I am going to immigrate for my child. I want him to breathe fresh air, run around in a field instead of a mall, barbeque in the open instead of eating at fancy restaurants. I also want him to have international exposure, good education without spending a fortune and decent healthcare where doctors have a personal agenda.

I understand how things work in India. As long as you have a decent job/business making decent money, you will be on a roll. You need to ask what happens if (God forbid) something bad occurs. In my opinion, being poor / less resourceful in Canada is less painful compared to being poor in India. With no disrespect to fellow countrymen and the Motherland, life in India is very hard if you don’t fall in a particular financial bracket. I believe we should not plan for a future assuming the s-curve (sorry, I am a Project Management guy) will always be pointing upwards. If anything, life teaches you that there will be stagnation, you will hit new lows. We should plan our contingency in such a way that when Ivan Drago punches you in the gut and you are on the floor crying like Balboa’s dog just died, you still crawl to your corner and live to fight another round.

I just realized I have stopped making sense now. Before I lose the plot even further and start quoting Beaveheart, lemme tell you that it’s gonna be ok. Immigration is a pain in the bum but eventually you will make Canada your home. If anything, you can always come back to India after getting your citizenship. Stick it out for 5 years and make us all proud.

PS: Please don’t troll me :'(

 

[MZASAM]

sheena1983:

You the the best judge of your situations, to decide whether to stay in India or in Canada based on the merits and demerits.

India and Canada are two different countries, cultures which are incomparable.

After coming to a conclusion that India is comparatively advantageous, why are you in dilemma.

Every individual will share his / her perspectives which certainly will not match.

Good luck.

 

[mce.sahil]

At the risk of sounding like a prick, I will start by crunching some numbers to present by case for choosing to immigrate. I make CAD 200,000 (tax free) a year working in Middle East. We rent a beautiful sea facing apartment, travel to Europe twice a year for vacation with family, our son goes to the best nursery in town and we have a full time maid working at home. Now what my parents term as brain dead syndrome, I am going to leave all that and move to Canada to earn CAD 80,000 a year (before Tax) if I am very lucky.


I am going to immigrate for my child. I want him to breathe fresh air, run around in a field instead of a mall, barbeque in the open instead of eating at fancy restaurants. I also want him to have international exposure, good education without spending a fortune and decent healthcare where doctors have a personal agenda.

I understand how things work in India. As long as you have a decent job/business making decent money, you will be on a roll. You need to ask what happens if (God forbid) something bad occurs. In my opinion, being poor / less resourceful in Canada is less painful compared to being poor in India. With no disrespect to fellow countrymen and the Motherland, life in India is very hard if you don’t fall in a particular financial bracket. I believe we should not plan for a future assuming the s-curve (sorry, I am a Project Management guy) will always be pointing upwards. If anything, life teaches you that there will be stagnation, you will hit new lows. We should plan our contingency in such a way that when Ivan Drago punches you in the gut and you are on the floor crying like Balboa’s dog just died, you still crawl to your corner and live to fight another round.

My thoughts exactly brother.

 

[rusticdud]

Quiet an interesting discussion

 

[johnsyk]

Dear OP,
Good job at explicitly stating your fears. We all have gone through such emotions at some point of our immigration journey. I would also like to virtually pat the backs of some guys who have given very reasonable and sane advice on this subject.

At the risk of sounding like a prick, I will start by crunching some numbers to present by case for choosing to immigrate. I make CAD 200,000 (tax free) a year working in Middle East. We rent a beautiful sea facing apartment, travel to Europe twice a year for vacation with family, our son goes to the best nursery in town and we have a full time maid working at home. Now what my parents term as brain dead syndrome, I am going to leave all that and move to Canada to earn CAD 80,000 a year (before Tax) if I am very lucky.

The question I get asked by most is “why on Earth would you do that”. Like someone said earlier, you ruin your present to make sure your children have it better in future. When I first moved out of India to study in Australia back in 2006, I stood outside Sydney Airport in the middle of the night with tears in my eyes. I asked myself the same question which you are asking now. I cursed myself for leaving the comfort of home, the warmth of having parents and family around you. I don’t want my son to be that guy who was not sure about what lies ahead.

I am going to immigrate for my child. I want him to breathe fresh air, run around in a field instead of a mall, barbeque in the open instead of eating at fancy restaurants. I also want him to have international exposure, good education without spending a fortune and decent healthcare where doctors have a personal agenda.

I understand how things work in India. As long as you have a decent job/business making decent money, you will be on a roll. You need to ask what happens if (God forbid) something bad occurs. In my opinion, being poor / less resourceful in Canada is less painful compared to being poor in India. With no disrespect to fellow countrymen and the Motherland, life in India is very hard if you don’t fall in a particular financial bracket. I believe we should not plan for a future assuming the s-curve (sorry, I am a Project Management guy) will always be pointing upwards. If anything, life teaches you that there will be stagnation, you will hit new lows. We should plan our contingency in such a way that when Ivan Drago punches you in the gut and you are on the floor crying like Balboa’s dog just died, you still crawl to your corner and live to fight another round.

I just realized I have stopped making sense now. Before I lose the plot even further and start quoting Beaveheart, lemme tell you that it’s gonna be ok. Immigration is a pain in the bum but eventually you will make Canada your home. If anything, you can always come back to India after getting your citizenship. Stick it out for 5 years and make us all proud.

PS: Please don’t troll me :'(

Similar situation as you in Dubai. You are bang on. I'm moving because I want my little girl to grow up in Canada. Dubai is super money but after a while you realize, this place can never be home.

 

[Udayesh]

Following...

 

[kashjuni]

Similar situation as you in Dubai. You are bang on. I'm moving because I want my little girl to grow up in Canada. Dubai is super money but after a while you realize, this place can never be home.

For people in UAE, there should not be second thoughts at all. You (and your family and children) will be asked to leave Dubai if you are fired from the job and do not find a new job in next 30 days or so. This itself should be biggest factor if you want security for your family in the future.

p.s. I am also in Dubai and this is one of the major reason. Also, my salary is just decent, though nowhere comparable to Adil. From that front, anything more i get in Canada will be bonus.

 

[johnsyk]

For people in UAE, there should not be second thoughts at all. You (and your family and children) will be asked to leave Dubai if you are fired from the job and do not find a new job in next 30 days or so. This itself should be biggest factor if you want security for your family in the future.

p.s. I am also in Dubai and this is one of the major reason. Also, my salary is just decent, though nowhere comparable to Adil. From that front, anything more i get in Canada will be bonus.

I agree. Its pretty much a no brainer when living in the UAE. And there wont be much of a difference moving from the UAE to Canada compared to moving from India to Dubai when it comes to infrastructure, lane driving, services or air quality. Of course, the joy of seeing lush landscapes instead of man made islands and malls is something to look forward to! And yes, I would rather watch Netflix with my kid than spend time with half a dozen gossiping relatives! So it works well for me! ;D

Sahil and many others have made valid points. My only advice for OP is this - I was in a extremely well paying job in India before I was head hunted and brought to Dubai. I know the kind of savings I do here...its going to be pretty hard in Canada for a few years for sure.

However, Immigration is a long term thing. In my humble opinion, thinking of stuff like drivers, maids etc is a very short term way of looking at things. If there are Canadian Indians, American Indians or British Indians today doing very well for themselves in their chosen paths, living a first world lifestyle, it is due to the sacrifices their parents made.

Someone rightly said, immigration is more for kids than the parents themselves. It only works when you look at it long term. Sure, I could choose to make money in Dubai and retire in India with my maids and drivers and all that....but at what cost? The fear that my daughter has to grow up in a society which is regressing on a daily basis. Where the population boom is becoming almost irreversible. Traffic terrible by the day. Increased corruption. India is a super power and has its plus points for sure but as earlier mentioned, it only really works well for people in a certain financial bracket AS LONG AS they stay in that same financial bracket. We all know, it only takes ONE critical life threatening illness to wipe everything away!

Most of what OP mentioned seems to be job specific perks. They never last forever.

 

[ht7]

For people in UAE, there should not be second thoughts at all. You (and your family and children) will be asked to leave Dubai if you are fired from the job and do not find a new job in next 30 days or so. This itself should be biggest factor if you want security for your family in the future.

p.s. I am also in Dubai and this is one of the major reason. Also, my salary is just decent, though nowhere comparable to Adil. From that front, anything more i get in Canada will be bonus.

Same situation in US! I will be illegal the day after I am laid off. No path (less than 2 decades) to permanent residence for Indians in the US either.

 

[johnsyk]

I also need to add that it is pretty obvious that the OP did not think it through properly the first time. Even a few days of research and you know that it is unrealistic to expect the same level of salary of perks when immigrating to a new country. Savings wont be the same for sure. And no one moves to another country for the "Hava" of being an NRI! After being an NRI for 9 years, this is the first time I am hearing there is some HAVA to it! LOL

You are making the same mistake a second time. You are again thinking of moving back to India without giving it time. If I were you, and I really really hated it in Canada, I would still spend atleast 3-4 years and get my citizenship and then decide the way forward. In 3-4 years time, you might really love it there and decide to stay. Or you might just decide...enough is enough. You are moving back. All you need is an OCI card to live in India forever. Atleast you give your child that choice of going back to Canada whenever he wants. And that is a pretty powerful choice millions dont have.

You spent so much time and effort and paperwork to get here. I agree at the end of the day, you gotta do what makes you happy. But at 60, when your job is long over and the ambulance cant get to your home in time because the crazy traffic in India or the ministers car parade don't make way for an Ambulance on a road, you should never ever think back and regret that you had a shot at Canada and you let it go without giving it a fair chance.

 

[Nehaw]

Hey guys,

As you are in Canada and working in IT Field , Could you Please tell how's the trend of IT Jobs thr ?
Specially for Testing and SAP Profile ?

and you are working in which profile ??

It would really helpful for us as we are planning to apply for Canada and we both are working in IT company.

Thanks in Advance!!

 

[sheena1983]

thank u all 4 responses....
I wasn't born with silver spoon...we were very poor till 2006. India is full of opportunity - we become financially very strong in less than 7 years. We did not study from IIT/IIM or some big name institute. We studied from very small and not very known university. I just managed to clear my graduation (47%). u might have also judged that my English is also poor. We grew up in a small city of India and never faced any racism, or sexual assault, or any kinda threat.

there are lot of points raised by lot of ppl here against the situation in India. Only valid point to some extend is safety. Others like government hospitals, education and un-breathable air did not make any sense to me. I studied in Municipality School that too not in English medium, where we use to sit down and study - no benches n all. I was admitted twice in government hospitals when i was kid. Once I was admitted in gov hospital for 2 weeks in 1998. They give food and clean entire hospital everyday. Doctor visit twice a day. Now I can easily afford privy hospitals - thts different story. I now understood why there r so many news channels in India. But, with all this, after 6-7 years of work we made it big in India and i did not work very hard the way I am working here in Canada. it clearly shows if u'r smart and intelligent and know how to get the work done, then the growth is unlimited in India. In-fact after coming here - i realized if i wud have worked the same way in India for those many years i wud have grown like anything in my career and financially.

About health - here - we're sick every day from last couple of months due to weather (sometime minus degree and sometime above 15 degree). we went to 2 different hospitals with sometime soar throat, fever, runny nose, tiredness, etc. and doctors did not gave any medication - they were like its common here, it will go away in some time, u will get use to it..... in last couple of month we have taken around 20 to 30 OTC tablets. our neighbour said here u have 2b ready with ur own 1st AID for small health related problems, u cannot run to hospital for every little thing like India and small fever, runny nose and cold will come n go like this only - Doctors says eat carefully and stay healthy. we stopped eating out. everyday we gargle with warm salty water, we r eating fresh vegetables and non-veg's and all healthy things. we started those multi-vitamins. Trust me - in India i never gave a thought to our eating habit. we use to have pakodas, puri bhaji, lots of indian sweets, 4-5 cup of tea every day and ice creams and cold drinks and we were fit. Here we don't eat all of them so that we stay healthy in this weather. here, we make sure v sleep on time do grocery shopping properly, every thing so organized. in India we never gave importance to all this out of office related work or say - it was automatically done, i dunno. I still wonder how we were living in India with out being so much organized. Everything was so easy, simple with hell lotta time.
In India - if u are intelligent enough to judge when to work hard & when to work smart n earning decent - i think u r good there.

Some people are saying what if something wrong happens in India - say job loss or something - same could be the case in Canada. What if I lose my job here - well we all know where the job security is high and where the job market is volatile. I heard that here laying off is not uncommon....they stop people at the door and give one month pay cheque and ask them to leave - politely off course. I know EI will b there to support in Canada - but my expenses are close to 3000 will i get that much money from EI - i dunno....there is no EI in India to my knowledge - but i know i have huge savings, relatives and friends when I am in need - its very easy in India to move to parents house or your in-laws house or to your relatives house meanwhile u search a job and try get things on track...(I pray to god nobody has to face this situation)...but honestly i never saw ppl going thru this situation in India and those who r going thru this situation are obviously not applying for Canada PR or r not eligible for Canada PR - so bringing them in this discussion is pointless....even if i lose my job - i have 100 of 1000s of contacts there - if i call few of them - i will get at least 2 jobs somewhere or the other place easily...n yes, i did not got these contacts thru networking or event or linkedin, it was just the way in India....we have lot of friends and fren of fren and our relative their relative...so if we're good and help others they help u...
For kids: I think nobody can give u guarantee of their safety. But education and all other things depends on parents.
Johnsyk - life after 60 is a big topic. U don't want 2 b there where u get ambulance in few seconds but no one to call an ambulance for you at 60. After 60 I would def chose India over fresh air (sitting alone in a park breathing fresh air). Right now our life phase is different, but after 60 un doubt i would love to be in India. just my thots ..you seriously never felt the NRI Hava? I am sure u must have seen this Hava in movies at least(namastey london, yamla pagla dewana, pardes, cant recall most of the names - but there r 50+ movies on this) - In my office - whoever is going onsite or comes from onsite - they get little different respect at least for sometime. Nobody can deny hava of being NRi in India specially when u go back to your town (gaon) for few days. Ur old friends from school will tease u for being NRI and give u respectful treatment just because of NRIship...or your most of the family members n friends live abroad so that cud b the case with u...

Population - all the people i know from my school college office - i don't know single person who has more than 2 kids. the calc wud be like this: 80% of them have just 1 kid & 10% of them 2 kids & 5% dont have kids & remaining 5% don't want kids. 10 years back things were different there now - Things r changing in India.

Pollution - I dont live in Delhi - in my city - i have seen local ppl following up a group to reduce pollution and garbage....
Property builders r also contributing a lot to improve roads n infra .....they do to get benefit - but ultimately or indirectly cleaning up everything...Ppl r standing up against crime. obviously it will not improve overnight..Most of the comments in Indian context are related to BPL families facilities or at least surround near BPL ppl.

Going to school after high school can be costly in Canada.
A student attending CEGEP, trade school, college or university full-time today can expect to pay between $2,500 and $6,500 per year—or more—in tuition. Books, supplies, student fees, transportation, housing and other expenses will only add to that total.
In fact, full-time students in Canada paid an average of $16,600 for post-secondary schooling in 2014–2015. That is more than $66,000 for a four-year program.

So what i conclude from all these responses - this is what I will get in Canada:

Fresh Air - for my kids
Safety - for my kids
I've lived in Indian air and safety - thats y i am saying only for my kids...

after say 18-20 years - my kid will b Canadian n not Indian by all means which shudn't be a surprise - they might want to move out n stay separately with their gf/bf, well - they will visit us sometime though. We will b happy seeing our kids having fresh air n water. They might not go for degree or post secondary studies as what most canadians do. They will be very polite in buses, trains, subways by saying sorry, please, excuse me n all (In India they wud have been stuck with their BMWs in traffic) since no-one is moving here for money.

All comments convinced me that its only about our kids having fresh air/water and safety for them. v all love ours kids more than our self and many of u r saying we do this so that our kids get benefit of this - now I understand the meaning of 'Individualistic' in Canada. That is why they r focusing on immigration - because people here don't go for kids...many of them don't want to have kids.....but again immigrating only for fresh air and water? for me it is easily available in India and in plenty..... Can I also add my parents to having fresh air to breathe list? But I guess it is very difficult to get them here on a PR visa since they want only working ppl i assume. I love my kids and parents equally.
Sorry I went with the flow - I am moving to India soon I have fresh air n water for me there.
My conclusion:
Gudd will b gudd in India and Canada
Gobar will b gobar in India but it will b treated or become like gudd in Canada.

Basically - I moved with the expectations of making 3 to 5 times more money than I was making in India. rest everything is available for me there. 2 time sal will also not help because it will take couple of years to adjust here instead working hard in India with target to double ur salary wud be worth it if I get 50 to 70% hike in couple o fyears there...
I cannot give up my Diwali, holi, dashera, 100 friends and 100 relatives, shadi functions n parties and queen like life for little extra good quality of air, water and good roads (which is already there available for me)....thank you all for your responses because of which I think I am making the correct move this time...

 

[DEEPCUR]

I do respect your point of view, but you should seriously give it some more time. Your mind is just finding better things about India and projects it as something comparable to a developed nation. Honestly it isn't worth what you mentioned. You might want to google and read R2I forums where plenty of families returned back to west or desperate to return after justifying themselves with the similar points that you have mentioned above.

There is no respect for human life in India. Nothing broken ever gets fixed by the govt, they just make people forget it before next election. Healthcare is a big joke. I was so pissed off the way my father was treated at hospital in his last stages in India. Despite being a private hospital, right from the nurses to ward boy, everyone expects tip even to move a stool. They hardly have any compassion for a person who is 70 years and treat him like a done case. Doctors never disclose anything properly and kept ordering test after test.

You are comparing that you weren't loaded with medicines when you were sick. If I were you, I would appreciate it. That is how it should be right. I don't understand the rationale of questioning it. And I seriously hope you understand that you don't get cold or fever with junk foods. All those things have long term effects and pose big threat to your cardiovascular health. Just google and see average life expectancy of people in west and in India. It is so strange that you are labeling good things such as eating healthy, sleeping on time as something unnecessary, and you find pride in saying that you stayed fit with junk food. Seriously?!! And you would definitely outgrow these cold and fever stuffs over the time.

Please give it two years at least before you return. You won't miss anything in two years, I am pretty sure that your mindset will change. If you still don't like it here, then you may move. At least you can convince yourself later that you gave enough time to make a decision and not repent it.