spouse sponsor: unemployed, living abroad raising my kid(s), planning to return

[naphelge]

Quick (or perhaps not so quick) background:
- I met my wife chatting on-line Aug. 2008.
- We met first time when I went to Thailand for 6 weeks Dec. 2008-Jan 2009.
- Upon return, kept daily chats up until Sept 2009 when I decided to travel back to Thai for extended stay to provide opportunity to get to know each other better in person.
- Asked future-wife to marry me Mar. 2010.
- Came to Canada with future-wife for month-long trip to give family and friends good news and handout invitations.
- Married Dec. 2010 in Thai; some of my family and friends traveled to be there.
- Honeymoon Feb. 2011.
- Had daughter Jan. 2012.
- Second month long trip to Canada with wife, first with daughter in Apr. 2013.
- Got news pregnant with second child, due in Jan 2014.
- Wife makes difficult decision to forge ahead with PR app in hopes of moving to Canada for better future for kids. I am really happy!
- In lieu of working, I have been doing distance studying with Athabasca Uni to earn bach. degree since Sept-2009 to current (all documented); been living off savings that can keep me going another couple of years if need be.
- Since I have had no income since Sept-2009 I have not done any tax returns. Last return completed and assessed was 2008. Lost some tax forms for the past four years, but did not think it was a big deal until I return and get work once more.

===
Ok, so the wife and I are almost ready to submit our apps (sponsor and application forms), but I have a few questions.

Question 1:
I did not think failing to send in any tax forms for the past 4 years was a big deal as none of the three sponsor forms specifically mentions anything about submitting tax related except if the application is a common-law one, which ours is not. However, I was dismayed to read line 17 on the 5491E sponsor checklist that specifically mentions that an "option C printout" of last year's tax assessment should be included. Now there is also a note to provide an explanation on a separate sheet if this document cannot or is not being submitted with sponsor forms. If I had all my tax forms for the past 4 years I think I would blast thru and do my taxes, but the truth is I lost more than half of my T3's and T5's (all investment and interest related details, and no T4 income slips because I have not been working).

What is the general consensus on Immigration's general reaction (if there is one) to applications that do not submit the "option C printout," but a letter explaining why it is not included instead. Yeah I realize the reasons for doing so are broadly varied, but I am initially curious about other's experiences submitting without that doc.

Question 1b:
On the sponsorship questionnaire, where it asks about whether the sponsor is employed or unemployed, I did of course enter that I am unemployed; however I did also enter an income for past 12 months of $15500 CAD which I withdrew from my investments and transferred to a local bank here in Thailand as my means for the year. Do I need to provide any sort of documentation to support my claim? Transfer receipts perhaps, or a copy of my Canadian bank account showing the deposit amounts from various investment companies? Or is it good enough that I just make the claim and they (CIC) takes that as my word, which they may or may not verify?

Question 2:
I have written up a one page letter explaining the details of my particular situation, how I have not been working but studying while living abroad with my wife, raising our daughter (wife works full time, good job) since she was born, my intention to stay in Thai until a decision is rendered on my wife's PR visa (assuming I am approved as a sponsor) so that I can continue looking after our daughter and second child after he is born, and my modest ability to continue supporting myself as well as give up some financial breathing room when we do eventually (staying positive here) move to Canada, and finally my intention to get back working in my career field from which I temporarily took a break.

Anyway does the letter sound like it would add positively to CIC's assessment of me as a sponsor, or could it perhaps be read as something negatively superfluous? Sort of like answering more questions than what are being asked.

Question 3:
My wife and I would like to get this app sent off ASAP, before the end of the month would be great. Now we will have a second child in Jan 2014, who will like our daughter be a naturalized Canadian citizen (daughter has Canadian Birth document [they say specifically it is not a certificate and I forget off the top of my head what they call it exactly] as well as her Canadian passport). Is it a big deal that we have a second child while the PR app is being processed?

There is a note about informing CIC about any new births (deaths, divorces, separations, etc.) after an app has been submitted. Would informing CIC of a birth later on potentially slow down the process at all? I can't see why really, since the child will be a Canadian citizen free to come and go from Canada and so is not added to the wife's PR app as a dependent, at least we did not add our current daughter as such. I guess that is another question: were we right in assuming our daughter, a naturalized Canadian citizen does not need to be added as a dependent to my wife's PR app?

Question 4:
We have a lot of docs that we have got translated at a translation office. The immigration department at the gov't of Thailand offers a service to verify the validity of the translation, which they then add their stamp of approval to once everything reads correct. Would we be correct in assuming this would suffice as an affidavit for the translated docs translated by an independent translation office (private business, who has also put their stamp on our translated documents before the Thai gov't stamp of approval goes on)?

I guess overall my biggest concern I have is how CIC will regard me as a sponsor. I am fairly certain everything else is just a waiting game. There can be little doubt about the legitimacy of my marriage, almost 3 years and 2 kids later, as well my wife works for the Thai government as a research scientist in microbiology (Master's degree), and she supports herself, I have never felt a need to give her any money, living in her house splitting the bills almost down the middle (if anything she contributes more than me). So any opinions, suggestions, or advice as we are readying to put our paperwork together and send it off would be appreciated reading.

cheers

 

[Avadava]

My 2 cents.

Question 1: About Printout C, my husband is in the same situation. He hasn't worked in Canada since 2006. If you read carefully, it says: "the most recent taxation year" not the last year. In my husband's case, he called the Revenue Agency and got them to mail us here in Germany the Printout C. It is free of charge, and they do mail it to your address. Here is the number for outside Canada: 1613-940-8495

Question 1a: You should provide evidence of you bank account funds and transfers to support your claims from the cover letter. (writing the letter explaining your situation is a good thing)

Question 2: adding extra information in my opinion does not have a negative impact, on the contrary, it adds perspective to your specific case.

Question 3: If your wife is pregnant she can't do the medical exam (which is mandatory) because it involves x-rays. The only option you have is to wait for the baby to be born before you send your application, and yes the baby needs to be included in it. Also, any changes that appear during your application process (change of address, pregnant wife, change of employer, etc.), you need to inform the Visa Office about it right away. If not, you will have misrepresentation (regarding the dependents). And you are right, the birth of a child will slow down the process, because that child is a dependent of yours and your wife's and needs to be included in the applications. I've heard cases where the file was returned to the applicant and they were asked to reapply after the baby's birth.

Question 4: An affidavit is needed only when the translation is done by a friends (keep in mind that family members are not allowed to translate) or by any other non-certified person. If you do your translations at a CERTIFIED translator, you don't need a affidavit. What my husband and I did, was contact a translator in Canada (member of the Canadian Association of Translators and Interpreters) and do the translation with him. You send scanned copies of document by email, pay via PayPal and receive the translation by normal mail with a certificate. All legal, all stamped and recognized by Canada.

If you can prove that you can support yourself and your children, I don't think you will have any problems.

 

[naphelge]

Hi Avadava,

Thanks for your most welome 2 cents!

Question 1: About Printout C, my husband is in the same situation. He hasn't worked in Canada since 2006. If you read carefully, it says: "the most recent taxation year" not the last year. In my husband's case, he called the Revenue Agency and got them to mail us here in Germany the Printout C. It is free of charge, and they do mail it to your address.

So did your husband still do his taxes even though he wasn't working and was still able to send a current, or recent "Option C printout"? Or has he not done taxes like me since he last worked and so was sent an "Option C printout" for an assessment done years previous (2005, 2006, 2007, etc.)? If that is the case, is an older "Option C printout" acceptable then? If so then I am set on that account. I do have an electronic copy of my last tax assessment done for the 2008 tax year (earnings for 2007). If not however, and a more recent "Option C printout" is required or expected, then I am back at square one since I have lost more tax slips for the past 4 years than what I managed to keep. Something it will be difficult to sort out from here. Not impossible but frustratingly difficult.

Question 3: If your wife is pregnant she can't do the medical exam (which is mandatory) because it involves x-rays. The only option you have is to wait for the baby to be born before you send your application, and yes the baby needs to be included in it.

We were NOT planning to do the medical exam until it was requested. It is only valid for 6 months and seems quite possible they will not ask for it during the first 6 months of our sending my sponsor app and my wife's PR app to Mississauga, waiting the 2 or so months for the sponsor approval, and then waiting for the docs to be RE-sent (back this way) to Singapore. Are we wrong to assume my wife can simply do the medical exam when one is requested, in 6+ months, well after we have had our second child?

If it was likely the medical exam would be needed within the first 6 months then it makes great sense to do one beforehand and send it along with the apps, but otherwise it seems like a waste. There seem to be enough posts about medicals not being requested until after the first 6 month period that makes me apprehensive.

Ditto thinking regarding the police record.

On a separate note, is it required that our (now) daughter needs to be added to my wife's application form as a dependent (I think the IMM008 form)? It seems unnecessary and conflictory since my daughter should not require any sort of assessment, being already a Canadian citizen (having already traveled in and out of Canada on her Canadian passport in Apr 2013). It would seem to me that CIC would be expecting fees for the entire process based on how may applicants and dependents are listed. If my daughter and soon-to-be son is listed as a dependent on the form would it not be expected that fees for two unnecssary dependents (unnecessary to list on the PR app I mean) be included in the overall processing fee?

I am certain I must have overlooked something regarding this, or I am not thinking clearly about the issue, because it does not compute for me. If anyone can clear this up for me that would be great.

Question 4: An affidavit is needed only when the translation is done by a friends (keep in mind that family members are not allowed to translate) or by any other non-certified person. If you do your translations at a CERTIFIED translator, you don't need a affidavit.

The Canadian embassy here in Bangkok only recommends local translators as a means of convenience and not as any recommendation pertaining to their certifiable credibility. What are the requirements or how does one go about determining whether a translator is certified. I mean, sure the tranlation office puts a rubber stamp on the translated document, but surely that alone does not mean they are certified.

Incidently, my wife translated all of our documents for our daughter's Canadian birth "certificate," which we then had verified at the same Thai gov't immigration office I mentioned in my OP, and the paperwork flew without question, and my wife's name and signature was included on the all docs she translated listing noting her as the translator. However, we certainly did read the disclaimer about no family translators for these (PR and sponsor) docs, and hence our going to a local translation office to have our paperwork translated, subjected to subsequent verification as I described in the OP.

Are there really no certified translation offices, or means for certifiably procuring a satisfactory translations outside of Canada?

To be honest I never did think about using a translation service from back home. But then again it does seem like a pretty awkward way to go about it.

 

[Avadava]

Hi naphelge,

1. My husband called CRA and told the guy on the phone about this Printout C required for the sponsorship application. He also mentioned he hadn't worked in Canada since 2006. So the guy told him he would send that year to us. He hasn't filled taxes either that year. So the situation here is very similar. As far as we know, there are no income requirements for spouse sponsorship, unless there are dependent children of your spouse that are not yours. You just need to prove them that you have enough money to support yourselves, they don't want you to apply for welfare in Canada and be a burden to the system.
If you can, send a letter from family or friends from Canada saying that they will offer you housing and support till you both find a job and can establish yourselves.

3. It is possible to do the medical after, when they request it (medical exams are valid for 1 year), that will delay your process though, since they won't be able to move forward with the app until she passes her medical exam. I don't think your Canadian daughter needs to be included in IMM0008, but in your application as a sponsor. As soon as the second child is born, do let them know about it and about your intention to get a Canadian Passport for it.

CIC does request papers that are missing, and if you do not provide that within the time period they mention, the application will be denied. Don't take it as a guarantee that they will ask for it 6 months later, it could be that the request comes after 2 months. They usually give you 60 days for it. And this will definitely delay your app by months. There is a reason why people include all documents before hand. But if you choose not to, I can only suggest the best way to go about it is to explain on a sheet of paper the reasons why you didn't include a certain document and give them an ETA (estimated time when you will be able to do that)

A translation is certified if it has a stamp on it. All certified translators have a stamp stating their registration number, some town or institution. If they can provide that for you, then it is fine. My translations also have a separate piece of paper where it says: "I certify that this is an accurate translation of the original document." This sentence could be also on the translation itself. It depends on the one doing the translation.

Even if your wife was able to translate the documents for your daughter, don't confuse that with an immigration application. This is from CIC:
"Step 1. Gather Documents
What documents are required?
Use the Document Checklist (IMM 5491) which you can find in this package to assist you in gathering the necessary documentation.

Important information. If you do not provide all the requested information or documents, the processing of your application could be delayed.

Translation of documents
Any document that is not in English or French must be accompanied by:

the English or French translation; and
an affidavit from the person who completed the translation; and
a certified copy of the original document.
Note: An affidavit is a document on which the translator has sworn, in the presence of a commissioner authorized to administer oaths in the country in which the translator is living, that the contents of their translation are a true translation and representation of the contents of the original document. Translators who are certified members in good standing of one of the provincial or territorial organizations of translators and interpreters of Canada do not need to supply an affidavit.

Important information. Translations by family members are not acceptable."

 

[naphelge]

It's reassuring to read similar situations, so thanks again for the reply.

You just need to prove them that you have enough money to support yourselves, they don't want you to apply for welfare in Canada and be a burden to the system.

Well in that case I think I will simply include a copy of the 2008 tax assessment I do have for my 2008 tax year as example of the kind of income I was earning in the past in my career, as well as bank records showing money deposits from investments that I wire each year to a Thai bank that carries me through the year.

I don't think your Canadian daughter needs to be included in IMM0008, but in your application as a sponsor.

Right. Ok good. There is a box to include my dependent child(ren) on the sponsor evaluation form IMM5481E:

B) Every other family member not included above and dependent
on you (or the co-signer, if you have one) financially, whether
they are living with you or not. Enter their number in the box on
the right and provide details on the back of this page.

which of course I have marked a 1 in there at the moment for my daughter, but if we wait until after the birth of our second child in order to include my wife's medical so as to apply with a "complete" package of details then I can mark a 2 in that box also avoiding any further disruptions to the process having to contact CIC with additional new information. Thanks for giving my wife and I that additional possibility to consider.

A translation is certified if it has a stamp on it. All certified translators have a stamp stating their registration number, some town or institution. If they can provide that for you, then it is fine.

Well I was hoping to attach a photo of one of the translated docs certified like I described but I cannot seem to find a way to insert or attach a file. There are buttons for insert images but they simply insert html image tags that do not seem to render any docs specified. Too bad.

Even if your wife was able to translate the documents for your daughter, don't confuse that with an immigration application.

I was just making an incidental observation in passing how one gov't agency accepts one translating their own documents so long as they are certified and another agency for the same gov't specifically does not accept such translations.

 

[Catou]

FWIW, my husband had lived outside of Canada for years and hasn't needed to do a tax return for years either. We were advised that an Option C printout is required regardless. When we called CRA the guy basically laughed and said he couldn't see the point in an Option C printout that showed no taxes were due or payable last year but they get those requests all the time so he arranged for it to be sent out.

Maybe CIC get as much information from an option C that has nothing in it as they do for one where taxes are paid - who knows? But they wanted one so we got one. If nothing else, it proves identity and the fact that you are in the tax system.

 

[Avadava]

I'm glad I could help you, napheldge. It helps when someone is in a similar situation and you share your experiences. I know how mind boggling this can be, sometimes I feel like my head is about to pop.

In the IMM0008, (your wife's Application) only children that need to be sponsored are included there. Your children will have Canadian Passports, so no need to put them there. Include them in your app as a sponsor.

Also, make sure you document your relationship thoroughly. The main things they look for in a spouse application is how genuine your relationship is and any criminal background your wife might have.
Look at it this way: When a VO will open your file, he will start with the idea that your wife married you to facilitate her immigration to Canada. With the documents you will include (pictures from wedding, plain tickets, bills showing you live at the same address - anything that shows a genuine and continuing relationship) you must prove him/her wrong.

Any questions you might have along this painful process, I recommend you come here on this forum. Lots of very helpful people, it will put your mind at ease.

Regarding the translation: I'm sorry, I didn't mean to sound rude or insulting. Was also pointing out that there are inconsistencies with CIC.


P.S. just a side info: I went this morning to do my up front medical and there was a couple there with the wife pregnant. She was 35 weeks into the pregnancy and they came to do the medical because the embassy asked them to. They had 28 days left to fulfill the request. The doctor refused to do her x-ray (surprisingly she was willing to have x-rays done!) and asked them to call the embassy and let them know about the pregnancy. They paid for the other tests, blood, urine etc. but they had to leave empty handed.
She also didn't submit her medical exam with the application because she was pregnant, and now they are in a lot of trouble. Embassy wants the medical (they requested cause they didn't know about her pregnancy) and the doctor refuses to do it. They are risking a denied application.

 

[naphelge]

Hi Avadava,

It helps when someone is in a similar situation and you share your experiences.

It sure does!

Your children will have Canadian Passports, so no need to put them there. Include them in your app as a sponsor.

Check.

Also, make sure you document your relationship thoroughly. The main things they look for in a spouse application is how genuine your relationship is

My wife is in the process (a few printouts a day at work) of printing out all our correspondences during the development phase of our relationship, except chat logs. The list includes SMS messages (we don't have too many); letters, post cards, and few other things mailed (snail mail including the envelopes with post stamps); 2 moneygram receipts, one was to pay two months rent for a room in the same apt. bldg. where my wife was living during our first visit (6 week visit), and the second was money I wanted to send to pay for a necklace that broke which I gave to my wife during that first visit; copies of our wedding invitation, pictures from the wedding as well as general pictures through the course of our relationship from the earliest photos to photos of the very recent past; some emails, which again we do not have very many since most of our communication was done online via chat.

Now we have about 150+ chat logs with most of them being multiple pages to print. Now of course we should not need to print out our entire collection of chat logs. I was thinking about two per month for the first six months leading up to our first meeting and then maybe just one a month thereafter to support continued communication. In addition, I was planning to prune all needless details from the logs (connection, disconnection details, which some days when the internet for one or both of us was being erratic takes up considerable space in the log. What about pruning the conversation? Or should they all just simply be left as is, untouched so-to-speak?

Any opinions about documents to be included will be enthusiastically read.

Regarding the translation: I'm sorry, I didn't mean to sound rude or insulting. Was also pointing out that there are inconsistencies with CIC.

Nothing was read by me as rude or insulting Avadava. We appreciate all comments and suggestions.

P.S. just a side info: I went this morning to do my up front medical and there was a couple there with the wife pregnant. She was 35 weeks into the pregnancy and they came to do the medical ... The doctor refused to do her x-ray (surprisingly she was willing to have x-rays done!) and asked them to call the embassy and let them know about the pregnancy.

I think my wife and I are of the mindset to send in a full and complete application even if it means the police or medical record might well expire before it is needed. A complete package of information is quite likely received more positively than one that will require someone to make the extra effort to ask for additional information at some future point.

My wife has called three of the doctors in Bangkok who are on the shortlist of acceptable doctors who can perform the required medical, and they have all said doing an xray while she is pregnant is no problem and routine(ish). As I understand it, the doctors are themselves Canadians living and working here in Thai, which sure makes me feel better.

Although we'd like to rip through and get this done--gawd we need to get this done--I am having reservations about rushing the medical, especially since the birth is only three months away, and waiting until after the baby is born. That way I could include the baby on my sponsor app as well and alleviate the need afterward to send an update to CIC.

Anyway, we have a prenatal appointment in just two weeks, so we will wait until then to discuss it with her (the doctor) and see what her reaction and suggestions are.